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Tithing is fulfilled/Completed

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The whole law is fulfilled and tithing is fulfilled along with it, since it is not taught in the New testament under grace. If you read Hebrews 7:1-12 you will see that both the priesthood and the law of tithing that went along with it were fulfilled in Christ. If even one law was not fulfilled in Christ then none of them were as Christ says in:


Matt 5:18

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Colossians 2:14,15

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


When Christ said it was finished it was done, completed in him.

Hebrews 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


John 13:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


If your pastor/minister keeps you under the law of tithing he puts you back under the law of sin of death, under the Yoke of Bondage.

Not under the law(mosaic law). Under grace. Romans 6:14-15

Christ is the end of Law(Mosaic law) for Righteousness. Romans 10:2-13, Acts 13:38-41

No longer under schoolteacher(The Mosaic Law). Galatians 3:5-29, 22-26

Free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-4

Not justified by the works of the law(Mosaic Law). Galatians 2:16-21

Dead to the Law(Mosaic Law) married to another(Married to the new Law. The law of faith/liberty and christ. Under grace.) Romans 7:1-6

Cast out the bondwoman(The Mosaic Law).Galatians 4:21-31

Christ has made us free from the Yoke of Bondage(mosaic Law). Galatians 5:1-6, 13-14, 18



1. The passages your minister might try to twist are the ones where Christ was speaking with the Pharisees about tithing when they were still under the law such as Luke 11:42. This was still under the Old Testament law. NOT under grace(after Christ's death on the cross), had Christ told the Pharisees or anyone not to tithe he would have been breaking the law, since it had not yet been fulfilled.


Matt 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Matt 23:1-3

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


2. Your minister will also try to use 1 Cor 9:12-14 saying that since the priests of the old testament tithed of the things of the temple we are now to tithe of the things in the gospel. Which could make sense if you don't look at everything that Paul has said up until that point.


Paul said that those who sow spiritual things(things not of this world) should not reap things carnal(things of this world) but instead reap spiritual(things not of this world).

1 Cor 9:10-14

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?


Since we are living after the Gospel we receive the reward(spiritual fruit sown by the word) promised by the gospel(everlasting life). Whereas priests of the Levitical order lived of the things of the temple and received the things of the promised by the law(carnal reward, tithes, worldly reward).


13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.



1 Corinthians 9 does not give the principles of tithing it only says that those who live of the Gospel are of the Gospel, as in they follow the things contained within it and are given their reward in the spiritual things that they have sown not as the priest's who receive their reward in this world(tithing). Those who preach the Gospel and Labour in the word do recieve food and Drink(Luke 10:7-8;1 Timothy 5:17-18) but never any monetary Gain(Luke 10:4)


3. Your minister might try to use 1 Timothy 5:17-18 saying that the honor the laborer(minister of God) is worthy of is a monetary(Carnal or Worldly) reward and this is why he should receive a salary from the Church. When we look at 1 Timothy 5:17-18 we see a different story.

1 Timothy 5:17-18

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


1 timothy 5:17 says that elders who have well ruled are worthy of Double honor, but it does not say that ministers are worthy of double reward of a monetary nature. When we look at the next verse we see that it is giving the same principles as 1 Cor 9, that a minister is to reap a spiritual reward for the deeds and good works he has done on earth.



4. Then your minister might try to use Acts 6, saying that Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead by the holy spirit for holding back tithe. But if we look at what is actually said we get the correct interpretation.

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.


They were struck down for lying to the holy spirit. What they sold was theirs and the money from it was also. This shows that what we have is our own and what amount we give(if any) is up to us. But lying to the holy spirit is worthy of death. Tithing is not even mentioned in Acts 6, neither are the principles of Tithing. In fact it specially says that what we have is our own, that we should only give the amount that we want to give with a cheerful heart, not begrudgingly or by commandment. Those are the principles given in these passages.



5. Next your minister might try to us Philippians 4 saying that they gave what was required(by the law of tithing) to Paul that he be sustained. But if you read the whole thing you will understand it's true meaning. Paul never received a salary for the ministry work he did. We live of the gospel and are partakers of the reward it promises(everlasting life). Philippians says that exactly, that they helped with a gift, not a law that of necessity demanded they give to Paul but after their own hearts did they give freely to Paul as he had need.


Philippians 4:10-12,14-15

10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.

11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.



They gave freely because none other church(as Paul said) wished to help out with giving or at the least they simply did not help him out of ignorance. Paul says that what the Philippians gave was a gift, not a commandment or a law, they were not required to give to him they chose to help him.


Philippians 4:17-18

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.


6. 1 peter 5:1-5- says that the elders of the church are to feed the flock of God overseeing them willingly, freely, not by constraint(1 Peter 5:2) being of a ready mind. An elder's reward is not filthy money(1 Peter 5:2) neither are the Elders to act as Lords over God's Heritage(1 Peter 5:3) but are an ensample for the flock whose reward will be a crown of Glory that fadeth not away(1 Peter 5:2,4) not monetary gain.


7. Matt 10:5-15- The Lord has said that when we go out and preach we should do so freely asking for no reward(Matt:10:7-8) neither should a minister of the Lord carry any purse of money(Matt 10:9-10). Whatever city they should enter they should stay in the houses of those who are worthy(Matt 10:11-15).


8. Luke 10:2-16- The Lord has said that the Labourours of the Lord(Luke 10:2) are to carry neither purse nor script(Luke 10:4) that whatsoever house you enter say"Peace be to this house"(Luke 10:5) and in this house remain(Luke 10:6-7) eating and drinking whatever is given unto you(Luke 10:7-8) because the Labourer is worthy of his hire(Also used here-1 Timothy 5:17-18). In this chapter the rewards the Laborour is worthy of are gifts of food, drink, and shelter given freely by believers(Luke 10:7-8). Whatever city that does not receive you shake off your dust as a sign against them(Luke 10:10-16)


9. The money we give to Church is not sent to heaven, in fact Christ didn't tell people to give to the Church but to the Poor(Matt 19:21,Mark 10:21,Luke 12:33,Luke 18:22,) that by doing this they would gain treasure in heaven. Christ says that after we give all to the poor we are to devote our lives to him preaching/witnessing. Hebrews 7:8 speaks on this matter as well.

8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


Men that die receive tithe. But there in Heaven he(Christ) receives not the men that received tithes but them who witnessed that he(Christ) Liveth still(Hebrews 7:8). The Treasure stored up does not come from tithing but from doing good works and giving to the poor, yes giving to the Church is a good work(Acts 4:32-35) but it is not by any necessity or law that we are to give(2 Cor 9:7,Acts 6:1-9). Combine this with Hebrews 7:12

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law


We see the Law being Changed is tithing, the Law that only the dead men are keeping(contrary to the Law of the Spirit) is tithing. The Lord does not Receive tithes, the Lord Receives only those who are witnesses of Christ(Matt 10:33-35). The only law being spoken of here(Hebrews 7:1-12) is Tithing, other than tithing the only other thing being spoken of is the priesthood being changed(along with the law of Tithing). Tithing is the Law that changed.


The people that are of Christ are supposed to be Poor(James 2:5;Matthew 5:3; Mark 10:21; James 5:1-6) in Worldly riches but rich in Faith that our reward be not on earth but in Heaven(Luke 12:33-34;1 Timothy 6:17-19; Matthew 6:19-21) Paul and the Apostles all wandered without home or purse(Philippians 4:12; 1 Cor 4:9-14; Luke 10:3-4; 2 Cor 11:25-27) but all were rewarded spiritually(1 Cor 9:9-11) as the Law of the Spirit promises, if a man has Food and Raiment he is to be content( Matt 6:25-34; Luke 12:22-34). If a person wants more than food and raiment then they are to work for it( 2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 20:33-35) but nowhere is tithing said to be in the New testament, neither are we told under grace that by tithing we will be rewarded. We are told that by giving to the poor(Luke 6:38;Matt 5:42; Matthew 19:21; James 1:27; Matt 5:42) as well as the church(Acts 2:44-45; Acts 4:32-35; Acts 20:35) we will receive a reward but giving is not a set amount and it is not by any law(2 Cor 9:7).


We become rich spiritually, having the rewards of the Spirit under grace. If we were supposed to be rich in Carnal Rewards(money) Christ would not have emphasized how hard it was for a rich man to enter into heaven(Mark 10:21-25; Luke 18:22-25; Matt 19:21-24).


2 Cor 8:6-7

6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.

7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.


The riches described here are not monetary in nature but Faith, Utterance, Knowledge, Diligence and Grace. So when Paul says:

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


He is telling the Corinthians that Titus, the Apostles, and they also are promised the riches which are faith, Utterance, Knowledge, diligence and grace. Nowhere does he say they will be rich in monetary gain or Mammon. Christ took on the form of a man(became poor) and willingly died on the Cross though he was innocent had he wanted to he could have escaped any situation but for us became poor(as a man) so that the Law of Moses could be fulfilled and we might become rich(by the Spirit/in the spirit) after the promise of Faith.


10. Lastly they will try to say that a minister must receive tithes in order to live, probably saying your robbing god if you don't then picking a old testament passage most likely out of Malachi 4 and that if you don't tithe you can't keep the church building that he will call the house of the Lord. After no necessity of Law are we to give. Supporting the Church financially is a choice not a law.


2 Corinthians 9:7

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.



Ministers should work if they need/want money(2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 18:2-3; Acts 20:33-35) not just preach and expect/demand money from the Lord's children. The lord will provide as we have need. Ministers(if they need a place) and cannot find work, can stay with members of the congregation as Paul and the Apostles did(Matt 10:11; Luke 10:5).


Matt 6:25-34, Luke 12:22-34 Paul was often hungry and thirsty, cold and naked for the Lord's sake. He received no tithe, he carried no purse of money but the Lord provided as he had need.


2 Cor 11:25-27

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness


We are the temples of the Holy spirit, we need no building made with human hands to call our church. Wherever the people of the Lord are gathered that is where the Lord will be. We are the temple of the Lord. Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.


Matt 18:20

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


I hope that you at the very least consider what I have said that you may see the truth, I ask that you transform yourself by the renewing of your mind


Romans 12:2

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Remember that all things must be proven by the word of God alone. Not with the wisdom of the world/man but with the wisdom of God(1 Cor 2:4-8; 1 Cor 3:18-20; 1 Cor 1:17-28; James 3:13-18; Romans 1:21-22) professing Godliness.

Thess 5:21 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


2 timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


2 timothy 4:1-2, 5

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


May the truth and light of the Lord find you.
 
Member
You might want to shorten your post. When they're that long people tend to NOT read them. It's best to get the point in as short a post as possible.
 
Active
The whole law is fulfilled and tithing is fulfilled along with it, since it is not taught in the New testament under grace. If you read Hebrews 7:1-12 you will see that both the priesthood and the law of tithing that went along with it were fulfilled in Christ. If even one law was not fulfilled in Christ then none of them were as Christ says in:


Matt 5:18

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Colossians 2:14,15

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


When Christ said it was finished it was done, completed in him.

Hebrews 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


John 13:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


If your pastor/minister keeps you under the law of tithing he puts you back under the law of sin of death, under the Yoke of Bondage.

Not under the law(mosaic law). Under grace. Romans 6:14-15

Christ is the end of Law(Mosaic law) for Righteousness. Romans 10:2-13, Acts 13:38-41

No longer under schoolteacher(The Mosaic Law). Galatians 3:5-29, 22-26

Free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-4

Not justified by the works of the law(Mosaic Law). Galatians 2:16-21

Dead to the Law(Mosaic Law) married to another(Married to the new Law. The law of faith/liberty and christ. Under grace.) Romans 7:1-6

Cast out the bondwoman(The Mosaic Law).Galatians 4:21-31

Christ has made us free from the Yoke of Bondage(mosaic Law). Galatians 5:1-6, 13-14, 18



1. The passages your minister might try to twist are the ones where Christ was speaking with the Pharisees about tithing when they were still under the law such as Luke 11:42. This was still under the Old Testament law. NOT under grace(after Christ's death on the cross), had Christ told the Pharisees or anyone not to tithe he would have been breaking the law, since it had not yet been fulfilled.


Matt 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Matt 23:1-3

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


2. Your minister will also try to use 1 Cor 9:12-14 saying that since the priests of the old testament tithed of the things of the temple we are now to tithe of the things in the gospel. Which could make sense if you don't look at everything that Paul has said up until that point.


Paul said that those who sow spiritual things(things not of this world) should not reap things carnal(things of this world) but instead reap spiritual(things not of this world).

1 Cor 9:10-14

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?


Since we are living after the Gospel we receive the reward(spiritual fruit sown by the word) promised by the gospel(everlasting life). Whereas priests of the Levitical order lived of the things of the temple and received the things of the promised by the law(carnal reward, tithes, worldly reward).


13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.



1 Corinthians 9 does not give the principles of tithing it only says that those who live of the Gospel are of the Gospel, as in they follow the things contained within it and are given their reward in the spiritual things that they have sown not as the priest's who receive their reward in this world(tithing). Those who preach the Gospel and Labour in the word do recieve food and Drink(Luke 10:7-8;1 Timothy 5:17-18) but never any monetary Gain(Luke 10:4)


3. Your minister might try to use 1 Timothy 5:17-18 saying that the honor the laborer(minister of God) is worthy of is a monetary(Carnal or Worldly) reward and this is why he should receive a salary from the Church. When we look at 1 Timothy 5:17-18 we see a different story.

1 Timothy 5:17-18

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


1 timothy 5:17 says that elders who have well ruled are worthy of Double honor, but it does not say that ministers are worthy of double reward of a monetary nature. When we look at the next verse we see that it is giving the same principles as 1 Cor 9, that a minister is to reap a spiritual reward for the deeds and good works he has done on earth.



4. Then your minister might try to use Acts 6, saying that Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead by the holy spirit for holding back tithe. But if we look at what is actually said we get the correct interpretation.

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.


They were struck down for lying to the holy spirit. What they sold was theirs and the money from it was also. This shows that what we have is our own and what amount we give(if any) is up to us. But lying to the holy spirit is worthy of death. Tithing is not even mentioned in Acts 6, neither are the principles of Tithing. In fact it specially says that what we have is our own, that we should only give the amount that we want to give with a cheerful heart, not begrudgingly or by commandment. Those are the principles given in these passages.



5. Next your minister might try to us Philippians 4 saying that they gave what was required(by the law of tithing) to Paul that he be sustained. But if you read the whole thing you will understand it's true meaning. Paul never received a salary for the ministry work he did. We live of the gospel and are partakers of the reward it promises(everlasting life). Philippians says that exactly, that they helped with a gift, not a law that of necessity demanded they give to Paul but after their own hearts did they give freely to Paul as he had need.


Philippians 4:10-12,14-15

10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.

11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.



They gave freely because none other church(as Paul said) wished to help out with giving or at the least they simply did not help him out of ignorance. Paul says that what the Philippians gave was a gift, not a commandment or a law, they were not required to give to him they chose to help him.


Philippians 4:17-18

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.


6. 1 peter 5:1-5- says that the elders of the church are to feed the flock of God overseeing them willingly, freely, not by constraint(1 Peter 5:2) being of a ready mind. An elder's reward is not filthy money(1 Peter 5:2) neither are the Elders to act as Lords over God's Heritage(1 Peter 5:3) but are an ensample for the flock whose reward will be a crown of Glory that fadeth not away(1 Peter 5:2,4) not monetary gain.


7. Matt 10:5-15- The Lord has said that when we go out and preach we should do so freely asking for no reward(Matt:10:7-8) neither should a minister of the Lord carry any purse of money(Matt 10:9-10). Whatever city they should enter they should stay in the houses of those who are worthy(Matt 10:11-15).


8. Luke 10:2-16- The Lord has said that the Labourours of the Lord(Luke 10:2) are to carry neither purse nor script(Luke 10:4) that whatsoever house you enter say"Peace be to this house"(Luke 10:5) and in this house remain(Luke 10:6-7) eating and drinking whatever is given unto you(Luke 10:7-8) because the Labourer is worthy of his hire(Also used here-1 Timothy 5:17-18). In this chapter the rewards the Laborour is worthy of are gifts of food, drink, and shelter given freely by believers(Luke 10:7-8). Whatever city that does not receive you shake off your dust as a sign against them(Luke 10:10-16)


9. The money we give to Church is not sent to heaven, in fact Christ didn't tell people to give to the Church but to the Poor(Matt 19:21,Mark 10:21,Luke 12:33,Luke 18:22,) that by doing this they would gain treasure in heaven. Christ says that after we give all to the poor we are to devote our lives to him preaching/witnessing. Hebrews 7:8 speaks on this matter as well.

8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


Men that die receive tithe. But there in Heaven he(Christ) receives not the men that received tithes but them who witnessed that he(Christ) Liveth still(Hebrews 7:8). The Treasure stored up does not come from tithing but from doing good works and giving to the poor, yes giving to the Church is a good work(Acts 4:32-35) but it is not by any necessity or law that we are to give(2 Cor 9:7,Acts 6:1-9). Combine this with Hebrews 7:12

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law


We see the Law being Changed is tithing, the Law that only the dead men are keeping(contrary to the Law of the Spirit) is tithing. The Lord does not Receive tithes, the Lord Receives only those who are witnesses of Christ(Matt 10:33-35). The only law being spoken of here(Hebrews 7:1-12) is Tithing, other than tithing the only other thing being spoken of is the priesthood being changed(along with the law of Tithing). Tithing is the Law that changed.


The people that are of Christ are supposed to be Poor(James 2:5;Matthew 5:3; Mark 10:21; James 5:1-6) in Worldly riches but rich in Faith that our reward be not on earth but in Heaven(Luke 12:33-34;1 Timothy 6:17-19; Matthew 6:19-21) Paul and the Apostles all wandered without home or purse(Philippians 4:12; 1 Cor 4:9-14; Luke 10:3-4; 2 Cor 11:25-27) but all were rewarded spiritually(1 Cor 9:9-11) as the Law of the Spirit promises, if a man has Food and Raiment he is to be content( Matt 6:25-34; Luke 12:22-34). If a person wants more than food and raiment then they are to work for it( 2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 20:33-35) but nowhere is tithing said to be in the New testament, neither are we told under grace that by tithing we will be rewarded. We are told that by giving to the poor(Luke 6:38;Matt 5:42; Matthew 19:21; James 1:27; Matt 5:42) as well as the church(Acts 2:44-45; Acts 4:32-35; Acts 20:35) we will receive a reward but giving is not a set amount and it is not by any law(2 Cor 9:7).


We become rich spiritually, having the rewards of the Spirit under grace. If we were supposed to be rich in Carnal Rewards(money) Christ would not have emphasized how hard it was for a rich man to enter into heaven(Mark 10:21-25; Luke 18:22-25; Matt 19:21-24).


2 Cor 8:6-7

6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.

7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.


The riches described here are not monetary in nature but Faith, Utterance, Knowledge, Diligence and Grace. So when Paul says:

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


He is telling the Corinthians that Titus, the Apostles, and they also are promised the riches which are faith, Utterance, Knowledge, diligence and grace. Nowhere does he say they will be rich in monetary gain or Mammon. Christ took on the form of a man(became poor) and willingly died on the Cross though he was innocent had he wanted to he could have escaped any situation but for us became poor(as a man) so that the Law of Moses could be fulfilled and we might become rich(by the Spirit/in the spirit) after the promise of Faith.


10. Lastly they will try to say that a minister must receive tithes in order to live, probably saying your robbing god if you don't then picking a old testament passage most likely out of Malachi 4 and that if you don't tithe you can't keep the church building that he will call the house of the Lord. After no necessity of Law are we to give. Supporting the Church financially is a choice not a law.


2 Corinthians 9:7

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.



Ministers should work if they need/want money(2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 18:2-3; Acts 20:33-35) not just preach and expect/demand money from the Lord's children. The lord will provide as we have need. Ministers(if they need a place) and cannot find work, can stay with members of the congregation as Paul and the Apostles did(Matt 10:11; Luke 10:5).


Matt 6:25-34, Luke 12:22-34 Paul was often hungry and thirsty, cold and naked for the Lord's sake. He received no tithe, he carried no purse of money but the Lord provided as he had need.


2 Cor 11:25-27

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness


We are the temples of the Holy spirit, we need no building made with human hands to call our church. Wherever the people of the Lord are gathered that is where the Lord will be. We are the temple of the Lord. Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.


Matt 18:20

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


I hope that you at the very least consider what I have said that you may see the truth, I ask that you transform yourself by the renewing of your mind


Romans 12:2

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Remember that all things must be proven by the word of God alone. Not with the wisdom of the world/man but with the wisdom of God(1 Cor 2:4-8; 1 Cor 3:18-20; 1 Cor 1:17-28; James 3:13-18; Romans 1:21-22) professing Godliness.

Thess 5:21 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


2 timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


2 timothy 4:1-2, 5

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


May the truth and light of the Lord find you.
Paul was single. Peter and the rest got paid. They had families to support. If rich ppl don't give, they should quit serving them for free and go to the poor or just do as the church in Germany: ask church taxes. If ppl want to sit in a warm building and have money enough and want someone to serve them, they can pay. If they don't, they shouldn't whine that there is another preacher every week who didn't have a lot of time to make the teaching and they can just go to someone's house to hear it if they're lucky. Why would anyone do that? It baffles me. Go to India or something. Preach there for free. Or go to the homeless. We had one woman in church who lived in a castle. 20 rooms. She ordered my ex to come serve her a week for free w prayer for all sort of stuff. I said: You are not doing that. He sent her to Canada where she paid a few thousand for a ministry week.
 
Active
Double honour is not 4000 euro when the rest get 2000, but when some get insane much and don't give a cent, it's no honour at all. It's: you're my slave. Come here and serve me. Work harder you lazy slave. Take an extra job. Work 60 hours a week. I was a week with a couple. That man worked 60 hours a week selling houses to provide for his family and he had to be a pastor for free. His 2 year old daughter was crying that she never saw him. Absurd. He quit after a year. He could drive to that church for 2 hours too.
 
Loyal
giving is a gift from God for us to be able to glorify him,

if people want to get out of it God does not make us doing anything.

Just remember we will all stand before him one day and be accountable of the gifts he has given us.
 
Active
We had a guy in church who used to be homeless. He had 320.000 debt. We had an encounter weekend to meet God. The rooms in which we staid we had to pay, but we wanted to pay it for him. He refused. He had to pay it himself. He said he picked up his filth bag outside and there was exactly 100 under it, which he needed, so he gave that. Ex said thanks, shook his hand w the money in it and gave it back. Ppl say that wealth teaching is no good from the WOF, just because some abuse it. We prayed for him. He got a house and his debt was gone. Vanished. All of a sudden it was 320. Another guy had 96000 debt. Had to go to jail for it. 1 day before he had to go: vanished. Bank couldn't find any debt anymore.
Tithing was before the law. Abraham and Jesus, Melchisedek, but in the N.T. they freely gave. When they didn't pay the Levites, they went back to work. Can't live from the wind.
 
Loyal
Galatians 6:6: “Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.”

Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.



Jesus just said these ought to have done !!! he is talking about tithing we out of done this, it can not be any clearer then that IMO
 
Member
Paul was single. Peter and the rest got paid. They had families to support. If rich ppl don't give, they should quit serving them for free and go to the poor or just do as the church in Germany: ask church taxes. If ppl want to sit in a warm building and have money enough and want someone to serve them, they can pay. If they don't, they shouldn't whine that there is another preacher every week who didn't have a lot of time to make the teaching and they can just go to someone's house to hear it if they're lucky. Why would anyone do that? It baffles me. Go to India or something. Preach there for free. Or go to the homeless. We had one woman in church who lived in a castle. 20 rooms. She ordered my ex to come serve her a week for free w prayer for all sort of stuff. I said: You are not doing that. He sent her to Canada where she paid a few thousand for a ministry week.
Nowhere in Scripture do we see Peter or the rest being paid for their ministry. What we do find is exhortation against keeping tithing and exhortation against ministers charging money for preaching/their ministry. There is no reason to believe that Paul is the only one that worked for his money, especially considering the command of Christ given to the Apostles telling them to accept no money for preaching(matt 10:7-9; Luke 10:4).

If the rich do not want to give then that is up to them, if they choose riches over charity and giving then that is their choice and must answer to God for it on the Last day.

If people want a designated building made by humans hands to worship in they can indeed pay for it, but that is only if they choose to pay for it. They are under no obligation to give.
 
Member
Galatians 6:6: “Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.”

Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.



Jesus just said these ought to have done !!! he is talking about tithing we out of done this, it can not be any clearer then that IMO
We are to communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. It does not say to give them money.
Galatians 6:6
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

As to Matt 23:23, see point one of the study.
1. The passages your minister might try to twist are the ones where Christ was speaking with the Pharisees about tithing when they were still under the law such as Luke 11:42. This was still under the Old Testament law. NOT under grace(after Christ's death on the cross), had Christ told the Pharisees or anyone not to tithe he would have been breaking the law, since it had not yet been fulfilled.


Matt 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Matt 23:1-3

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.



________________________
Christ was not confirming that tithing was to be in the new testament but was instead telling the Pharisees in what ways they were Hypocrites, and in how they ignored the portions of the law that mattered most.
 
Loyal
Luke 21:1-4
Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
 
Member
Luke 21:1-4
Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
Now again, this was under the law of Moses not under grace and the Law of Christ. So tithe was still in effect, whereas now the Law has been completed in Christ, but the message of Giving all that she had is a good one, and that same message is repeated throughout the NT. The difference is during the time of the widow giving to the church was a law, the amount she gave far exceeded this law,that is why she is such a good example of giving. She gave everything while those that are rich cast in great sums of money but still retained the majority of their wealth. Again though this was under the Law of Tithing, which is now completed and finished in Christ. We give freely now.
 
Active
Now again, this was under the law of Moses not under grace and the Law of Christ. So tithe was still in effect, whereas now the Law has been completed in Christ, but the message of Giving all that she had is a good one, and that same message is repeated throughout the NT. The difference is during the time of the widow giving to the church was a law, the amount she gave far exceeded this law,that is why she is such a good example of giving. She gave everything while those that are rich cast in great sums of money but still retained the majority of their wealth. Again though this was under the Law of Tithing, which is now completed and finished in Christ. We give freely now.
If you don't it's a good starting point though. When I just got saved, I got 600 a month and had to rent a 350 room from that. Guilders, half of euro's. So I had to give 60 a month. That was a lot to me. I was used to being Dutch and stingy. Every week I gave 10 or 15 with pain in my heart. Lol the first time I went to a church I threw quarters and cents in the bag. You don't automatically give freely when you get saved and when they only preach that, you think: wow look at how freely I gave! I gave 5 whole euro's. Amazing.
 
Active
The whole law is fulfilled and tithing is fulfilled along with it, since it is not taught in the New testament under grace. If you read Hebrews 7:1-12 you will see that both the priesthood and the law of tithing that went along with it were fulfilled in Christ. If even one law was not fulfilled in Christ then none of them were as Christ says in:


Matt 5:18

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Colossians 2:14,15

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


When Christ said it was finished it was done, completed in him.

Hebrews 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


John 13:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


If your pastor/minister keeps you under the law of tithing he puts you back under the law of sin of death, under the Yoke of Bondage.

Not under the law(mosaic law). Under grace. Romans 6:14-15

Christ is the end of Law(Mosaic law) for Righteousness. Romans 10:2-13, Acts 13:38-41

No longer under schoolteacher(The Mosaic Law). Galatians 3:5-29, 22-26

Free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-4

Not justified by the works of the law(Mosaic Law). Galatians 2:16-21

Dead to the Law(Mosaic Law) married to another(Married to the new Law. The law of faith/liberty and christ. Under grace.) Romans 7:1-6

Cast out the bondwoman(The Mosaic Law).Galatians 4:21-31

Christ has made us free from the Yoke of Bondage(mosaic Law). Galatians 5:1-6, 13-14, 18



1. The passages your minister might try to twist are the ones where Christ was speaking with the Pharisees about tithing when they were still under the law such as Luke 11:42. This was still under the Old Testament law. NOT under grace(after Christ's death on the cross), had Christ told the Pharisees or anyone not to tithe he would have been breaking the law, since it had not yet been fulfilled.


Matt 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Matt 23:1-3

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


2. Your minister will also try to use 1 Cor 9:12-14 saying that since the priests of the old testament tithed of the things of the temple we are now to tithe of the things in the gospel. Which could make sense if you don't look at everything that Paul has said up until that point.


Paul said that those who sow spiritual things(things not of this world) should not reap things carnal(things of this world) but instead reap spiritual(things not of this world).

1 Cor 9:10-14

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?


Since we are living after the Gospel we receive the reward(spiritual fruit sown by the word) promised by the gospel(everlasting life). Whereas priests of the Levitical order lived of the things of the temple and received the things of the promised by the law(carnal reward, tithes, worldly reward).


13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.



1 Corinthians 9 does not give the principles of tithing it only says that those who live of the Gospel are of the Gospel, as in they follow the things contained within it and are given their reward in the spiritual things that they have sown not as the priest's who receive their reward in this world(tithing). Those who preach the Gospel and Labour in the word do recieve food and Drink(Luke 10:7-8;1 Timothy 5:17-18) but never any monetary Gain(Luke 10:4)


3. Your minister might try to use 1 Timothy 5:17-18 saying that the honor the laborer(minister of God) is worthy of is a monetary(Carnal or Worldly) reward and this is why he should receive a salary from the Church. When we look at 1 Timothy 5:17-18 we see a different story.

1 Timothy 5:17-18

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


1 timothy 5:17 says that elders who have well ruled are worthy of Double honor, but it does not say that ministers are worthy of double reward of a monetary nature. When we look at the next verse we see that it is giving the same principles as 1 Cor 9, that a minister is to reap a spiritual reward for the deeds and good works he has done on earth.



4. Then your minister might try to use Acts 6, saying that Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead by the holy spirit for holding back tithe. But if we look at what is actually said we get the correct interpretation.

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.


They were struck down for lying to the holy spirit. What they sold was theirs and the money from it was also. This shows that what we have is our own and what amount we give(if any) is up to us. But lying to the holy spirit is worthy of death. Tithing is not even mentioned in Acts 6, neither are the principles of Tithing. In fact it specially says that what we have is our own, that we should only give the amount that we want to give with a cheerful heart, not begrudgingly or by commandment. Those are the principles given in these passages.



5. Next your minister might try to us Philippians 4 saying that they gave what was required(by the law of tithing) to Paul that he be sustained. But if you read the whole thing you will understand it's true meaning. Paul never received a salary for the ministry work he did. We live of the gospel and are partakers of the reward it promises(everlasting life). Philippians says that exactly, that they helped with a gift, not a law that of necessity demanded they give to Paul but after their own hearts did they give freely to Paul as he had need.


Philippians 4:10-12,14-15

10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.

11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.



They gave freely because none other church(as Paul said) wished to help out with giving or at the least they simply did not help him out of ignorance. Paul says that what the Philippians gave was a gift, not a commandment or a law, they were not required to give to him they chose to help him.


Philippians 4:17-18

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.


6. 1 peter 5:1-5- says that the elders of the church are to feed the flock of God overseeing them willingly, freely, not by constraint(1 Peter 5:2) being of a ready mind. An elder's reward is not filthy money(1 Peter 5:2) neither are the Elders to act as Lords over God's Heritage(1 Peter 5:3) but are an ensample for the flock whose reward will be a crown of Glory that fadeth not away(1 Peter 5:2,4) not monetary gain.


7. Matt 10:5-15- The Lord has said that when we go out and preach we should do so freely asking for no reward(Matt:10:7-8) neither should a minister of the Lord carry any purse of money(Matt 10:9-10). Whatever city they should enter they should stay in the houses of those who are worthy(Matt 10:11-15).


8. Luke 10:2-16- The Lord has said that the Labourours of the Lord(Luke 10:2) are to carry neither purse nor script(Luke 10:4) that whatsoever house you enter say"Peace be to this house"(Luke 10:5) and in this house remain(Luke 10:6-7) eating and drinking whatever is given unto you(Luke 10:7-8) because the Labourer is worthy of his hire(Also used here-1 Timothy 5:17-18). In this chapter the rewards the Laborour is worthy of are gifts of food, drink, and shelter given freely by believers(Luke 10:7-8). Whatever city that does not receive you shake off your dust as a sign against them(Luke 10:10-16)


9. The money we give to Church is not sent to heaven, in fact Christ didn't tell people to give to the Church but to the Poor(Matt 19:21,Mark 10:21,Luke 12:33,Luke 18:22,) that by doing this they would gain treasure in heaven. Christ says that after we give all to the poor we are to devote our lives to him preaching/witnessing. Hebrews 7:8 speaks on this matter as well.

8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


Men that die receive tithe. But there in Heaven he(Christ) receives not the men that received tithes but them who witnessed that he(Christ) Liveth still(Hebrews 7:8). The Treasure stored up does not come from tithing but from doing good works and giving to the poor, yes giving to the Church is a good work(Acts 4:32-35) but it is not by any necessity or law that we are to give(2 Cor 9:7,Acts 6:1-9). Combine this with Hebrews 7:12

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law


We see the Law being Changed is tithing, the Law that only the dead men are keeping(contrary to the Law of the Spirit) is tithing. The Lord does not Receive tithes, the Lord Receives only those who are witnesses of Christ(Matt 10:33-35). The only law being spoken of here(Hebrews 7:1-12) is Tithing, other than tithing the only other thing being spoken of is the priesthood being changed(along with the law of Tithing). Tithing is the Law that changed.


The people that are of Christ are supposed to be Poor(James 2:5;Matthew 5:3; Mark 10:21; James 5:1-6) in Worldly riches but rich in Faith that our reward be not on earth but in Heaven(Luke 12:33-34;1 Timothy 6:17-19; Matthew 6:19-21) Paul and the Apostles all wandered without home or purse(Philippians 4:12; 1 Cor 4:9-14; Luke 10:3-4; 2 Cor 11:25-27) but all were rewarded spiritually(1 Cor 9:9-11) as the Law of the Spirit promises, if a man has Food and Raiment he is to be content( Matt 6:25-34; Luke 12:22-34). If a person wants more than food and raiment then they are to work for it( 2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 20:33-35) but nowhere is tithing said to be in the New testament, neither are we told under grace that by tithing we will be rewarded. We are told that by giving to the poor(Luke 6:38;Matt 5:42; Matthew 19:21; James 1:27; Matt 5:42) as well as the church(Acts 2:44-45; Acts 4:32-35; Acts 20:35) we will receive a reward but giving is not a set amount and it is not by any law(2 Cor 9:7).


We become rich spiritually, having the rewards of the Spirit under grace. If we were supposed to be rich in Carnal Rewards(money) Christ would not have emphasized how hard it was for a rich man to enter into heaven(Mark 10:21-25; Luke 18:22-25; Matt 19:21-24).


2 Cor 8:6-7

6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.

7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.


The riches described here are not monetary in nature but Faith, Utterance, Knowledge, Diligence and Grace. So when Paul says:

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


He is telling the Corinthians that Titus, the Apostles, and they also are promised the riches which are faith, Utterance, Knowledge, diligence and grace. Nowhere does he say they will be rich in monetary gain or Mammon. Christ took on the form of a man(became poor) and willingly died on the Cross though he was innocent had he wanted to he could have escaped any situation but for us became poor(as a man) so that the Law of Moses could be fulfilled and we might become rich(by the Spirit/in the spirit) after the promise of Faith.


10. Lastly they will try to say that a minister must receive tithes in order to live, probably saying your robbing god if you don't then picking a old testament passage most likely out of Malachi 4 and that if you don't tithe you can't keep the church building that he will call the house of the Lord. After no necessity of Law are we to give. Supporting the Church financially is a choice not a law.


2 Corinthians 9:7

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.



Ministers should work if they need/want money(2 Thess 3:7-12; 1 Thess 2:9; Acts 18:2-3; Acts 20:33-35) not just preach and expect/demand money from the Lord's children. The lord will provide as we have need. Ministers(if they need a place) and cannot find work, can stay with members of the congregation as Paul and the Apostles did(Matt 10:11; Luke 10:5).


Matt 6:25-34, Luke 12:22-34 Paul was often hungry and thirsty, cold and naked for the Lord's sake. He received no tithe, he carried no purse of money but the Lord provided as he had need.


2 Cor 11:25-27

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness


We are the temples of the Holy spirit, we need no building made with human hands to call our church. Wherever the people of the Lord are gathered that is where the Lord will be. We are the temple of the Lord. Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.


Matt 18:20

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


I hope that you at the very least consider what I have said that you may see the truth, I ask that you transform yourself by the renewing of your mind


Romans 12:2

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Remember that all things must be proven by the word of God alone. Not with the wisdom of the world/man but with the wisdom of God(1 Cor 2:4-8; 1 Cor 3:18-20; 1 Cor 1:17-28; James 3:13-18; Romans 1:21-22) professing Godliness.

Thess 5:21 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


2 timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


2 timothy 4:1-2, 5

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


May the truth and light of the Lord find you.
Hi disciple, I didn't read your whole post, it was a tad too long for me, but I got the point. I came across the part in Malachi regarding robbing God many years ago, and I was intrigued by the challenge to put God to the test. I am a street musician and we live, as you might say, hand to mouth and so, as you can imagine, there wasn't much left after we'd fed ourselves and met our expenses to be there for others. However I figured out that if we gave ten percent of our income to God, which worked out at ten pence in the pound, we'd still be left with ninety pence in the pound. (I had heard that ten percent was the going rate) anyway, we started to set aside ten percent of our income and we put it into a box and that was God's money. It is surprising how quickly the money mounts up and soon there was enough to be of help to people in need. As to the blessing that was promised, it came in family love, answered prayer, joy and happiness and so much more. The other day I was meditating on the blessings that our family receive. I have a house that is full of laughter and love and it occurred to me how unhappily many of my neighbours fare, and I realised the extent of the blessings that we have. So if anyone try's to tell me that tithing is not relevant, all I can do is feel sorry for them. In fact, we have been blessed with a higher income over the last few years and so I can increase our tithe by giving people lifts in our car and if the box has been depleted there is normally enough in our bank to meet needs from our income. the blessings we receive are far more valuable than money.
 
Active
Just to interject a verse or two. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and is the New High Priest. There is nothing written in the Law of Moses about tithing to a Priest from
any tribe other than Levi. Paul addresses the issue in
Hebrews 7:12-14 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity also a CHANGE IN THE LAW.
For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah;
of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."


If you desire to be under the Law thats fine by me but it's not necessary. Might read Galatians again.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the
Law of Moses. (Speaking about the gentile believers)


A few verses later after an argument Peter gets up and says:

Acts 15:10 " Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11-But we believe that
through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS, SAYING
YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED AND KEEP THE LAW: to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT."
In a letter written by the apostles, elders, and brethren unto the gentile believers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia.

The Law, as written, would require you to tithe to a Levitical priest. You might find a real one in a Jewish synagogue? But since the Levitical priesthood was done
away with the second Jesus died it would be irrelevant. However; giving of whatever you have to the more needy than yourself is always a good thing.

And lastly if Jesus had spoken against tithing during his ministry he would have been speaking against the current Law of Moses which he was born under and that
would have been sinful for him to do so.
As the priesthood didn't change until his death as evidenced by the veil being torn. And as Paul speaks of in Hebrews 7:12

"Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec." New priesthood new rules.

God doesn't want 10%, as he had Jesus say if you would be perfect sell everything you have and give to the poor.
 
Active
Just to interject a verse or two. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and is the New High Priest. There is nothing written in the Law of Moses about tithing to a Priest from
any tribe other than Levi. Paul addresses the issue in
Hebrews 7:12-14 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity also a CHANGE IN THE LAW.
For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah;
of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."


If you desire to be under the Law thats fine by me but it's not necessary. Might read Galatians again.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the
Law of Moses. (Speaking about the gentile believers)


A few verses later after an argument Peter gets up and says:

Acts 15:10 " Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11-But we believe that
through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS, SAYING
YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED AND KEEP THE LAW: to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT."
In a letter written by the apostles, elders, and brethren unto the gentile believers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia.

The Law, as written, would require you to tithe to a Levitical priest. You might find a real one in a Jewish synagogue? But since the Levitical priesthood was done
away with the second Jesus died it would be irrelevant. However; giving of whatever you have to the more needy than yourself is always a good thing.

And lastly if Jesus had spoken against tithing during his ministry he would have been speaking against the current Law of Moses which he was born under and that
would have been sinful for him to do so.
As the priesthood didn't change until his death as evidenced by the veil being torn. And as Paul speaks of in Hebrews 7:12

"Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec." New priesthood new rules.

God doesn't want 10%, as he had Jesus say if you would be perfect sell everything you have and give to the poor.
Samson, I don't believe you and I will ever agree because it seems you don't want to debate, you seem to want to dominate. And also, we approach scripture differently, you study it, I feed on it. I don't pore over books, I just read it and every now and again I experience that Eureka moment and an understanding materialises. You mentioned, in a previous post, that the word in logos meant plan, we checked it out and it said that logos meant word or plan, word being the prominent. So it appears that these two words are interchangeable and mean the same, so the only reason you could have to change them is to dominate a discussion. That is not debate, neither is claiming that those you are supposed to be debating with are on milk whilst you, are, of course, on solids. That is demeaning, belittling and unkind. As to my attitude to tithing, when I came across the scripture in Malachi relating to robbing God, I, and Helen my wife, were moved in the Spirit to start giving God his portion of our income. So no amount of body swerving by those who value their money above all else will cause us to change. I'm sorry if this post is aggressive, but sometimes things need to be said. I pray the Lord will bless you.
 
Active
You mentioned, in a previous post, that the word in logos meant plan, we checked it out and it said that logos meant word or plan, word being the prominent.
So it ought to tell you that the word WORD is not a person it is something resembling a plan or blueprint. I'm simply trying to show you that a simple misunderstanding
of a meaning of a single word causes a different outcome in doctrine or ability to see past where one is now.

The sower soweth the word. Jesus was sowing the concepts of mercy, not resisting evil, purity of heart, meekness, peacemaking, thirsting after righteousness. These are
all parts of the plan in attaining unto perfection within.
The sower soweth the plan. Using plan is better understood for me in U.S. as I can follow a plan, but word does not carry the same meaning.
Jesus said he was the way, the truth, and the life. These 3 encompass the PLAN or word if you like but it is better understood as plan by me thats all. Either way it
eliminates the doctrine of the word being a person. Although Jesus lived out the plan in order to show us the way to get where he got as an overcomer.

I would think that we agree on one fact that the Bible is called the word of God? Then why in that one verse do we try to squeeze Jesus into the category of being
the word? Jesus is not the whole Bible but indeed is a necessary part of it. As the plan of God culminated in victory at the cross of Jesus for all of us.

And I would think that you would agree that the entire Bible is laid out as a plan for bringing many sons unto glory?
 
Loyal
Good litmus test of the holly spirit working in your life being born again
Proof of change, Holy Spirit’s work. Generous sharing and giving of money and possessions. People selling their possessions and giving to the needy. Liquidating assets for the good of others. Only a profound work of God could account for the radical change in attitude and actions concerning money and possessions. (Note church growth—the Lord added daily to their number those that were being saved—powerful witness of money and possessions.)

Acts 19:18-20. Ephesian occultists. Came to faith in Christ. Luke’s proof. They had magic books, books rare and extremely valuable. They burned their magic books which were worth 50,000 drachmas (days wage). At $10 an hour this is $4 million dollars. At minimum wage, it’s over one and a half million dollars.

Introduction: Relationship of Money and Possessions to the Spiritual Life

Fifteen percent of everything Jesus said is related to money and possessions. Our Lord made more reference to money and possessions than to either prayer or faith. He spoke about money and possessions more than heaven and hell combined.

Why? Because the Scriptures make clear there is a fundamental connection between a person’s spiritual life and his attitudes and actions concerning money and possessions. Often we divorce the two—Christ sees them as essentially related to one another.

Luke 19:1-10. Zaccheus, tax collector; tells Jesus he will pay back 4 times and give half to the poor. Jesus: “Today salvation has come to this house.” How does Jesus judge this fundamental change in Zaccheus’s heart? By the fundamental change in his attitudes and actions concerning money and possessions. (Change didn’t earn his salvation, but demonstrated it.)

Matthew 19:16-26. The rich young ruler, the counterpart to Zaccheus. Jesus knows what’s keeping him away from God is his attachment to his money and possessions—these are his God. So he says, “Give away to poor, come follow me and you’ll have riches in heaven.”

The man regretfully says “no.” Jesus talks about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. He knows this man is not saved; he has not changed. On what basis does he conclude this? His attitude and actions concerning money and possessions have not changed.

 
Loyal
2 Cor 9:7; Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mark 12:42; A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent.
Mark 12:43; Calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, "Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury;

Matt 19:21; Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Matt 22:21; They *said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He *said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
Luke 20:25; And He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Mark 8:37; "For what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

Luke 11:41; "But give that which is within as charity, and then all things are clean for you.

Luke 14:33; "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

Acts 20:35; "In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

Matt 6:4; so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Heb 7:2; to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.
Heb 7:3; Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.
Heb 7:4; Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils.
Heb 7:5; And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6; But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.
Heb 7:7; But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.
Heb 7:8; In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
Heb 7:9; And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,

Acts 4:34; For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales
Acts 4:35; and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.
 

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