The women of Revelation

[B-A-C]

There are at least 4 women in Revelation mentioned.

I am wondering some of the significances about them.
The first is the "prophetess Jezebel"

Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21; 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
Rev 2:22; 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
Rev 2:23; 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
Rev 2:24; 'But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them--I place no other burden on you.

In the Old Testament there was an evil queen named Jezebel, the wife of Ahab, who had many of God's prophets put to death. She is mentioned 20 times between 1 Kings 16 and 2 Kings 9. Her sins are described as rebellion and witchcraft.
She had a man named Naboth stoned so she could take his vineyard. The Bible says she wasn't buried and the dogs ate her corpse. Some think the Jezebel is Rev 2 may be the same spirit of rebellion. Whoever this Jezebel is, tolerance of her is held against this church. It also seems God "gave her time to repent" but she did not want to repent.

 

[B-A-C]

The second woman is mentioned in Revelation 11. Almost the whole chapter is about this woman.

Rev 12:1; A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
Rev 12:2; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 12:6; Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Rev 12:7; And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8; and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9; And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Rev 12:10; Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11; "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.
Rev 12:12; "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."
Rev 12:13; And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.
Rev 12:14; But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Rev 12:15; And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.
Rev 12:16; But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

There is a lot of symbolic language in this passage. The woman in verse 1 is usually thought to be Mary or Israel (perhaps both).
The stars on her head could be the 12 tribes, or perhaps the twelve apostles (perhaps both).
In Matt 2:13-19; we see that Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt for a while. It doesn't say exactly how long but this could be the 1,260 days mentioned in verse 6.
Verse 7 seems to jump back in time quite a ways. To a time before Mary or Israel,
Satan (the dragon) and his angels had a war with Michael and his angels in heaven. They were defeated and cast out of heaven. ( Also see Luke 10:18; )
It seems they were cast down to the earth (and sea) in verse 12. In verse 4 it says the dragons tail swept a third of the stars from heaven. This is often
taken to mean a third of the angels rebelled with Satan. In Jude 1:6; we see some angels are imprisoned until the day of judgment.
In verse 14, the phrase "time and times and half a time" is used. This is usually taken to mean 3 1/2 years (which would coincide with verse 6).
It's interesting that it mentions that Satan "went off" to make war with (only?) the rest of her children (Christians?) who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. It's also interesting that says here Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.

I have also heard the theory that "a third of the stars swept from heaven" might pertain to a third of the churches.
But I personally disagree because the church isn't in heaven yet, and certainly wasn't there when Satan rebelled.

 

[B-A-C]

Third and probably most famous woman in Revelation is the Harlot of Babylon. She is also the most controversial and likely the least understood.

Rev 17:1; Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
Rev 17:2; with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality."
Rev 17:3; And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4; The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,
Rev 17:5; and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Rev 17:6; And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.
Rev 17:7; And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
Rev 17:8; "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Rev 17:9; "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
Rev 17:10; and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
Rev 17:11; "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
Rev 17:12; "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
Rev 17:13; "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14; "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."
Rev 17:15; And he *said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
Rev 17:16; "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
Rev 17:17; "For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.
Rev 17:18; "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

Where to begin? There is a lot here, I am running out of time this morning. More about the harlot in the next post.

 

[B-A-C]

Is the great Harlot really the Roman Catholic church? I doubt anyone but God really knows for sure, but here are some thoughts.

She sits on many waters. (verse 1) This could mean the Mediterranean, it could mean that she exists near all coastlines (if this is true, does she NOT exist
inland? Say central Europe or the American midwest? It could mean that she exists where several rivers come together.

Whoever she is, she is powerful enough to cause the leaders of the earth (kings of the earth) to commit immorality with her, and many on the earth to be "drunk with the wine
of immorality" (is that a good description of the earth right now?)

Some say the purple and scarlet (verse 4) (which has been associated with the RC church at various times in the past) must mean she is the RC church.
There are places in the Bible where Babylon is used as a code name for Rome. For example the city of Babylon did not exist when Peter wrote 1 Pet 5:13;
Some take verse 6 to mean secular Rome. Has there been a city in history where more Christians have been killed?
Emperor Nero fed thousands of Christians to lions in the coliseum, had thousand more killed in mock battle fights versus gladiators. There are secular historians
that have documented that Nero used Christian bodies as fuel for massive bonfires to light up orgies and parties.
If it is "spiritual" Rome, is there a place that has led more Christians astray than the Vatican?

Some say the seven mountains are a give away. Rome has gotten much larger over the larger, and no larger is only on seven hills, but Rome was known
as the city of seven hills for at least 2 thousand years. Some say the seven hills are simply metaphors, I don't doubt that, but almost always in the Bible
when a metaphor is used, it coincides with a real physical feature (usually it means both).

Then we have the 7 kings. (verse 10) Five of them have already fallen. One is currently in power. Then there is a seventh king who hasn't taken power yet.
In verse 11, we see an 8th king, but it turns out he is one of the original 7 kings. Rome has been a part of different kingdoms over the centuries. Some
say this means Rome will return to being part of an older kingdom she used to belong to. Other believe this refers to real kings or at least leaders of some
nations. Yet others say this means the beast will be a descendant of one of those kingdoms. ( Germania and Romania are common guesses).

In verse 12 we see the 10 kings, or kingdoms. There was a lot of speculation about this when the European Union had 10 countries. Some have guessed the
United Nations, but there never was a time the UN only had 10 countries. We see the beast will give these kings authority for "one hour". The could also be figurative language.
In any case it seems they will be given authority for a short time. In verse 13, it seems the whole reason they were given this power, is so that they can give it to the beast.
"They have one purpose". Many take this in conjunction with Daniel 11; specifically verses ...

Dan 11:21; "In his place a despicable person will arise, on whom the honor of kingship has not been conferred, but he will come in a time of tranquility and seize the kingdom by intrigue.
Dan 11:22; "The overflowing forces will be flooded away before him and shattered, and also the prince of the covenant.
Dan 11:23; "After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.
Dan 11:24; "In a time of tranquility he will enter the richest parts of the realm, and he will accomplish what his fathers never did, nor his ancestors; he will distribute plunder, booty and possessions among them, and he will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time.

It seems the beast will be given this power over these nations by deception and false promises.

If the Harlot in verse 16 is the RC church, it appears the beast and his followers will fight with her and make her "naked and desolate".
Some believe Satan doesn't want to share any worship with the pope, or the virgin Mary, or any other entity. So he will destroy the competition (at least the biggest part of it).
In verse 17 it appears these nations will succeed in giving the beast their authority.

Do I know any of this for sure? Of course not, but it does give reason for thought. If it isn't the RC church, who else has this much influence in the world today? Who else has
had as much influence over the last few centuries? Even today the culture of that part of the earth is considered by many to be the most decadent.
The Italian Riviera (playground of the rich). Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Prada (does the devil really wear prada?) Gucci, Armani and Versace. This is the image many have
of Rome.

 

[norapture]

The woman is Jerusalem she will be trodden under foot for 42 months. Then the ten kings who have power for one hour will hate her and burn her. Cause God will put in their heart to fulfill his will.
Then he will come fight against them in the battle of Armageddon. Revelation 16:16-21 and
Zechariah 14:1-9

 

[B-A-C]

The first battle won't be in Jerusalem, it will be at Armageddon (Har Meggido).
You may be right about Jerusalem, it's probably the second most common interpretation I've heard.
Some more thoughts about the Harlot of Babylon. She actually continues from chap 17 into chap 18.

Rev 18:2; And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3; "For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality."
Rev 18:4; I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
Rev 18:5; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6; "Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.
Rev 18:7; "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'
Rev 18:8; "For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
Rev 18:9; "And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10; standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'
Rev 18:11; "And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
Rev 18:12; cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
Rev 18:13; and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives.
Rev 18:14; "The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
Rev 18:15; "The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
Rev 18:16; saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
Rev 18:17; for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!' And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
Rev 18:18; and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What city is like the great city?'
Rev 18:19; "And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!'

Another verse concerning the possibility of the RC church is verse 7 above.
Roman Catholics often refer to Mary as the Queen of Heaven. The Queen of heaven was actually an false goddess in Jeremiah 44. Some protestants consider this to be the same spirit
that Roman Catholics venerate and pray to. ( Jer 7:18; Jer 44:17-19; Jer 44:25; )

Another reason Jerusalem may not be the Harlot is that the "great city" appears to have a sea port of great commerce (verse 17 above) combined with the word "cargoes" in verses 11 and 12.
Jerusalem does not sit on "many waters" nor does it have a seaport being about 55 kilometers from the Mediterranean. Also due to all of the conflict and war in Jerusalem over the last 1500 years
or so, Jerusalem has never been known as a city of great commerce. Certainly not in the top 25 world cities.

We know from the previous chapter in Revelation that it is the beast and his followers that cause the destruction of the Harlot. ( Rev 17:16; ) It is God's purpose that the city be destroyed, but it's the beast who is doing the destruction.

 

[B-A-C]

Actually the "new" Babylon is mentioned back in Rev 16.

Rev 16:16; And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.
Rev 16:17; Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, "It is done."
Rev 16:18; And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty.
Rev 16:19; The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

Interestingly enough a third possibility I have heard is Los Angeles. Hollywood is often called Babylon in certain circles. It does have a large sea-port ( Long Beach, San Pedro).
I myself doubt this, but it's possible. One thing is for sure, it certainly has a very large influence over much of the world from a media/movie/television/music perspective.

Armageddon is about 60 miles (100 kilometers) north of Jerusalem, so it is unlikely will be the center of the battle. However...
Rev 14:20; And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.
So it sounds like Jerusalem will be affected by Armageddon.

Sometimes Rev 16:19; is taken only as figuratively. (There won't be an actual earthquake) However in my experience with scripture, metaphors always relate to something real.
These people believe Jerusalem is already split into 3 parts even today. ( Christian, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims ). Do atheists, or other religions count?

 

[B-A-C]

The last we hear of the Harlot of Babylon is in Rev 19.

Rev 19:2; BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
Rev 19:3; And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER."
Rev 19:4; And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne saying, "Amen. Hallelujah!"

Yet another reason this may not be Jerusalem, is because the Harlot city has already been destroyed.
( I suppose it's possible it could be rebuilt in 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth).

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Luke 21:20-24; are definitely about Jerusalem, but they may not necessarily be about the Harlot (Babylon).
Jerusalem may or may not be the "beloved city" in verse 9 above, but it can't be the Harlot because Babylon is already destroyed.

Psa 122:6; Isa 66:10;

 

[norapture]

BAC you said the first battle won't be in Jerusalem.
How many times do you think the Lord is coming back to do battle with the beast?
Cause when he comes back he will set his feet on the mount of Olives
Did you read Zechariah 14:1-9 ?
The Lord said he would gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle.

 

[B-A-C]

BAC you said the first battle won't be in Jerusalem.
How many times do you think the Lord is coming back to do battle with the beast?
Cause when he comes back he will set his feet on the mount of Olives
Did you read Zechariah 14:1-9 ?
The Lord said he would gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle.

The beast isn't involved in all the battles. There will be at least two battles, possibly 3 depending on how you interpret certain verses.
Armageddon and the beast are before the millennial reign. ( Rev 19:19-20; ) They are already thown into the lake of fire.
If the beast is an individual it's unlikely he will live for 1,000 years. If it is a government entity, it's unlikely it will be allowed to have power while Christ is reigning over the earth.

However after the 1,000 years is over, there is another war. The beast is not involved in this war.
Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Finally the devil is thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet already are.

Zec 14:1; Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
Zec 14:2; For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3; Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Zec 14:4; In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
Zec 14:5; You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
Zec 14:6; In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
Zec 14:7; For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
Zec 14:8; And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
Zec 14:9; And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

I am not denying there will be a great war in Jerusalem ( I already mentioned Luke 21:20-24; ) I just see no evidence that Jerusalem is the Harlot, especially if Jerusalem exists
after the millennial reign. Babylon is destroyed 1,000 years earlier, back in Rev 17:16; Rev 19:2-3; ) Also in Zech 14, it says after the war living waters will flow from from Jerusalem.
In Rev 20; it says the smoke of Babylon will rise forever.

 

[norapture]

Why did Jesus cry over Jerusalem? Why did tell her house is left desolate? Matthew 23:37-38
Why did he say --- let those who be in Judea flee to the mountains?
Matthew 24:16 because the abomination of desolation , the Antichrist is going to take over JERUSALEM and trodden it under foot for 42 months then Jesus will come back and fight against him and his army.

 

[B-A-C]

The fourth woman is the bride of Christ.
It's possible the bride is a city, but more likely the people inhabiting the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9; Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

We learn a little more about the bride in Eph 5.

Eph 5:29; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
Eph 5:30; because we are members of His body.
Eph 5:31; FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
Eph 5:32; This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33; Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

The church itself is often called the bride of Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

Eph 5:25; Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
Eph 5:26; so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27; that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

Jesus often referred to himself as the bridegroom. ( Matt 9:15; Matt 25:5-6; Matt 25:10; etc.. )

 

[norapture]

[QUOTI="B-A-C, post: 249660, member: 16754"]The beast isn't involved in all the battles. There will be at least two battles, possibly 3 depending on how you interpret certain verses.
Armageddon and the beast are before the millennial reign. ( Rev 19:19-20; ) They are already thown into the lake of fire.
If the beast is an individual it's unlikely he will live for 1,000 years. If it is a government entity, it's unlikely it will be allowed to have power while Christ is reigning over the earth.

However after the 1,000 years is over, there is another war. The beast is not involved in this war.
Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Finally the devil is thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet already are.

Zec 14:1; Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
Zec 14:2; For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3; Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Zec 14:4; In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
Zec 14:5; You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
Zec 14:6; In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
Zec 14:7; For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
Zec 14:8; And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
Zec 14:9; And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

I am not denying there will be a great war in Jerusalem ( I already mentioned Luke 21:20-24; ) I just see no evidence that Jerusalem is the Harlot, especially if Jerusalem exists
after the millennial reign. Babylon is destroyed 1,000 years earlier, back in Rev 17:16; Rev 19:2-3; ) Also in Zech 14, it says after the war living waters will flow from from Jerusalem.
In Rev 20; it says the smoke of Babylon will rise forever.[/QUOTE]

BAC I think you may have
misunderstood my question. I
ask how many times do you think
the Lord is coming back to battle
the beast and his army? Not how
many battles . So when the Lord
comes back and put his feet on
the mount of Olives is this to battle
the beast and his army? Or do you
suppose he will come to battle the
beast and his army at
Armageddon first, then come
again to the mount of Olives to do battle again

 

[B-A-C]

BAC I think you may have
misunderstood my question. I
ask how many times do you think
the Lord is coming back to battle
the beast and his army? Not how
many battles . So when the Lord
comes back and put his feet on
the mount of Olives is this to battle
the beast and his army? Or do you
suppose he will come to battle the
beast and his army at
Armageddon first, then come
again to the mount of Olives to do battle again

Well I believe in a rapture, so I believe he comes back twice. However in the context of the question above it doesn't matter.

He won't do any fighting in the rapture. But when He comes back, there will be a battle (war) at Armageddon/Jerusalem. This will be the end of the beast and false prophet.
This is before the millennial reign. The Christ reigns for 1,000 years. Then there is another battle with Satan. This will be the end of Satan.
I don't think Christ has to come back multiple time to fight multiple wars because He will already be here. He doesn't go back to heaven between the first and second wars.
(At least I have no scriptures that say he has to). He is on the earth reigning.

Depending on how you take other verses in Revelation, before these two battles, there may be a World War III, this will probably happen before the beast takes power.
Others believe this is the same battle as Armageddon, I think it may be. Although Armageddon seems to be a localized war.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree the beast will take over much of Jerusalem for a while. This may be through deception or by military power. In any case, I don't think Israel will really
know what's happening until it's too late. I also agree there will be a 2nd abomination of desolation in the temple in Jerusalem (which currently does not exist).
Finally I agree, the gentiles (nations) will trample the courts of the temple for 3 1/2 years and "the regular sacrifice" will be stopped.

However I'm still not sure that means Jerusalem is the Harlot. Will God hold the desolation against them if it isn't their choice?
Also I'm not sure the passage in Zech 14 supports this for a couple of reason.

Zec 14:1; Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
Zec 14:2; For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.

It seems that God is going to give the spoils taken from the Jews in Jerusalem back to them in Zechariah. Also it appears it is the Gentiles (nations) fighting against Jerusalem in verse 2.
In Revelation the Gentiles are already in Jerusalem (trampling the temple courtyard).

Zec 14:3; Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

So is God fighting for Jerusalem or against Jerusalem? As opposed to the Harlot. Is God fighting for the Harlot or against the Harlot of Babylon?

Zec 14:10; All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses.
Zec 14:11; People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.
Zec 14:12; Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

It seems after the war prophesied in Zechariah, Jerusalem will remain, people will live in it. Jerusalem will be secure. God will avenge those who fought against Jerusalem.
The Harlot of Babylon on the other hand will be totally destroyed.

Rev 17:16; "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

Rev 18:8; "For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
Rev 18:9; "And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10; standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

Rev 19:2; BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
Rev 19:3; And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER."

It does not sound like God was protecting Babylon in Revelation, it does not sound like anyone will live in it after it is destroyed.
However, it is possible that Zechariah could be prophesying about the 2nd war after the millennial reign.

Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

It seems God is protecting this city.
Again, for me personally I don't see Jerusalem as a city of great commerce and trade (not even in the top 50) and it doesn't have a seaport or sit on the water.
The Harlot of Babylon is a great city of commerce and sits on the water and has a great seaport. ( Rev 18:17-19; Rev 17:15; )

 

[just-a-servant]

There are at least 4 women in Revelation mentioned.
The first is the "prophetess Jezebel"

Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

In the Old Testament there was an evil queen named Jezebel, the wife of Ahab, who had many of God's prophets put to death. She is mentioned 20 times between 1 Kings 16 and 2 Kings 9. Her sins are described as rebellion and witchcraft.
She had a man named Naboth stoned so she could take his vineyard. The Bible says she wasn't buried and the dogs ate her corpse. Some think the Jezebel is Rev 2 may be the same spirit of rebellion. Whoever this Jezebel is, tolerance of her is held against this church. It also seems God "gave her time to repent" but she did not want to repent.

There appears to be two Jezebels in the scripture, the first one is identified and written about in the books of 1st & 2nd Kings as you've referenced in your statement. She was the Queen of Israel and was married to the most evil King Ahab. Together they killed most of the prophets and promoted Baal worship and sexual immorality which the Lord abhors. She was responsible for other evil things including the death of Naboth and was notably fed to the dogs at the end of her life.
The second one appears to be another person, presumably also named Jezebel. Whether her name actually was Jezebel isn't clear because as she is described, it is her actions and teachings which she is condemned for. Her teachings were similar to those of the Jezebel in Kings creating a correlation between the two. Using the name Jezebel in this passage conjures an image of immorality and evil whose only reward is to be fed to the dogs.
The issue Jesus has with this Jezebel is her teaching of antinomianism. Simply put, an antinomian person is one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. In other words, you can do whatever you want morally (or immorally as it's used here) because grace and faith will save you - you can be as bad as you want and beat the hangman, so to speak. She was teaching His servants that it was okay to engage in sexual immorality and eat food sacrificed to idols because they were going to be saved anyway - there was no obligation to adhere to the moral law.

The lesson for us to take from this is to not fall into the trap of her teaching. Doing so will only lead to intense suffering unless repentance is made.

IMHO
just-a-servant

 

[just-a-servant]

The second woman is mentioned in Revelation 11 (I believe you mean Chapter 12). Almost the whole chapter is about this woman.

Rev 12:1; A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
Rev 12:2; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 12:6; Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Rev 12:7; And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8; and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9; And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Rev 12:10; Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11; "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.
Rev 12:12; "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."
Rev 12:13; And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.
Rev 12:14; But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Rev 12:15; And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.
Rev 12:16; But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

There is a lot of symbolic language in this passage. The woman in verse 1 is usually thought to be Mary or Israel (perhaps both).
The stars on her head could be the 12 tribes, or perhaps the twelve apostles (perhaps both).
In Matt 2:13-19; we see that Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt for a while. It doesn't say exactly how long but this could be the 1,260 days mentioned in verse 6.
Verse 7 seems to jump back in time quite a ways. To a time before Mary or Israel,
Satan (the dragon) and his angels had a war with Michael and his angels in heaven. They were defeated and cast out of heaven. ( Also see Luke 10:18; )
It seems they were cast down to the earth (and sea) in verse 12. In verse 4 it says the dragons tail swept a third of the stars from heaven. This is often
taken to mean a third of the angels rebelled with Satan. In Jude 1:6; we see some angels are imprisoned until the day of judgment.
In verse 14, the phrase "time and times and half a time" is used. This is usually taken to mean 3 1/2 years (which would coincide with verse 6).
It's interesting that it mentions that Satan "went off" to make war with (only?) the rest of her children (Christians?) who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. It's also interesting that says here Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.

I have also heard the theory that "a third of the stars swept from heaven" might pertain to a third of the churches.
But I personally disagree because the church isn't in heaven yet, and certainly wasn't there when Satan rebelled.

I believe the general consensus is that the woman of v.1 is Israel because of the context of the rest of the chapter. Verse 1 describes her in glowing terms and gives her 12 crowns which could be taken as being a description of Mary and the disciples, but verses 13-17 are clearly speaking of the woman as if she were the Jewish nation and not Christians. The Christians are not mentioned until the end of v.17 and are only mentioned because Satan couldn't persue the Jews into their hideout in the desert. The 12 crowns would then be the 12 tribes.

The 1260 days mentioned in v.6 is again mentioned in v.14 and is of the language used in Daniel 12:7 thus establishing a connection between the two prophetically. Both of these time frames are the period of time the woman (Jews) will be in the desert. I don't believe there is a connection to the time Mary and Joseph spent in Egypt and if my elementary bible school memory serves me correct, I think they were said to have spent approximately 10 years there before returning to Nazareth. Since the Lord doesn't record that part of Jesus's life, any conclusion drawn would be pure speculation.

Regarding your analysis of the dragon from vs.7-12, I won't debate your conclusions, I didn't see anything out of line about your comments and since this thread is about the woman, I won't use up any ink on the subject. I don't believe the "third of the stars" is related to the churches - there simply is no evidence to back up such a claim.

IMHO
just-a-servant

 

[just-a-servant]

The fourth woman is the bride of Christ.
It's possible the bride is a city, but more likely the people inhabiting the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9; Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

We learn a little more about the bride in Eph 5.

Eph 5:29; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
Eph 5:30; because we are members of His body.
Eph 5:31; FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
Eph 5:32; This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33; Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

The church itself is often called the bride of Christ.

I have to address the "fourth woman" before tackling the third - that will take up a bunch of time I fear.

The "Bride of Christ" as a searchable term does not appear either in the KJV, RSV, or NIV versions of the scripture and although I didn't search further, I suppose it doesn't appear in any of the other translations either.
The reference you made in 21:2 about the new Jerusalem needs to be taken in context where it's meaning is not that the new city of Jerusalem IS the bride of Christ, rather the city is adorned, decked out, made pleasing, etc, like the bride of Christ.
There are many scriptures relating how believers, and by extension, the church, ARE the bride (of Christ). These connections are made by reference and deduction with/to the words being used and the situation they are used in. For example John the Baptist says in John 3:29, "The bride belongs to the bridegroom." The simple statement is in reference to v.26 talking about Jesus baptising and people going to Him. The reference is there and the deduction is the people being baptised are the "bride." We as believers who have been baptised would also then be the bride. Check also Rom 7:4, 2 Cor 11:2 and Eph 5:25 for similar passages.

Rev 21:9-10 as you've quoted should be referenced back to vs.1-4 where the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven is again prepared as a bride (read like a bride) dressed for her husband. The focal point of the description of the new Jerusalem is the inhabitants, not the city. Yes, the city is described in detail (it's adornments), but the reason for the new city is a habitaion, a home, for the bride.

IMHO
just-a-servant