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The un-educated

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by B-A-C, Nov 14, 2016.

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  1. I've been seeing a term in the news and media lately... the phrase is usually something like...
    The "uneducated" are the ones who voted for Trump. The "educated" voted for Hillary.

    Now no matter what your political views are, and no matter who you voted for... I find this phrase
    interesting. Now I assume this means those "who have gone to college". The phrase isn't entirely
    accurate because I know many people who have college degrees that did not vote for Hillary, and I know
    several people that DO have college degrees that voted for Donald Trump. However I suspect the media
    is correct for the most part (at least in this one statistic).

    I have some Christian friends who are college professors. One of them teaches in a Bible college, but the
    other three all teach at secular colleges. We were all having coffee together earlier this week and one of
    them made the statement that blue collar trades are getting harder and harder to find people.
    Mechanics, Electricians, Carpenters, Masons (not the secret society kind) Construction workers, barbers,
    and plumbers are getting harder and harder to find. There are less and less people available with these
    skills. Because more and more people are choosing the "college path". I don't know the statistics on that, but I suspect he is right.

    The most profound statement of the afternoon was.. "colleges don't really care if you learn how to be
    a doctor, or lawyer, or educator too much... what they really care about is that you are indoctrinated into the liberal ways of thinking". He then pulled out a schedule of collge courses offered at the University where he works. It was interesting, once you get past the core curriculum, the majority of classes are liberal arts, anthropology, psychology, media, and classes to "encourage free thinking".
    I already know that making it through college as a Christian is very difficult (even on just the surface issues like sex and alcohol) but is this true? Do you believe the main agenda of colleges today is the brain wash the younger generation? To preach any biblical teaching right out of them?

    If so, this may explain why so many liberals and socialists are bent making sure everyone is "educated".
  2. Note here too.....The word is in past tense....Meaning they have stopped learning, meaning they are stupid. Frankly I would much rather be Uneducated....Education is not a state of being, rather it's a process. Its a lifestyle.
  3. Looking at history in the United States, we will probably see that early on many [most?] people wanted an "education" in order to be able to read the Bible so as to be able to understand for themselves better what God wanted from men. Then with schools established for that basic purpose of reading the Bible plus writing and arithmetic [the 3R's of 'reading', 'riting' & 'rithmetic'], higher education also came into being along the way.

    The colleges (universities) were essentially for in depth studies of the scripture and preparation for religious ministries. All of that was long ago and many of those colleges or universities that were apparently begun for Christian purposes have moved a ways away from such purposes.

    I attended a secular state college which came to be re-named with the higher sounding designation of university [San Jose State] a good while after I was gone. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in 1971. In 1976 the Lord drew me to Him and I had to begin un-learning much of what I had learned in higher 'education' insititutions in order to begin approaching more closely to God. I would suspect that people who graduated from the same school or similar schools at later dates had even more un-learning to be done to achieve a similar purpose.

    I am not saying that no good at all came out of my college days, but it was not near as much as I once thought it was. Much of it stood as a barricade between where I was and where the will of God was.
  4. Education is not the fix all for making a person successful. Experience always trumps over knowledge. Knowledge "puffs up", ( 1Cor 8:1 ) and makes one feel more superior over others, where love "builds up".

    To become a mature Christian you do not need a college education of any kind. We all start out on the same level playing field, and grow as we learn from our Heavenly Father, through his Spirit.

    Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

    Education can be more of a hindrance than a help, especially when learning from a lot of seminaries, and Christian based schools.
  5. I rarely read CNN news anymore, but I thought this was interesting table.

    72% of adults who never graduated high school believe in God/Jesus
    61% of high school graduates.
    39% of 2 Yr college graduates (only secular colleges included in the survey)
    27% of 4 Yr college graduates (secular)
    12% of masters graduates
    5% of doctorate graduates

    It seems once you get into college, religion/theology beliefs drop off in a hurry.
  6. Yes, it would seem that as people work to qualify themselves they want to disqualify God.
  7. That's because "knowledge" puffs up (1 Cor 8:1), but "love" builds up.
  8. I think the key word is education. Do you know what is being taught in school these days and has been for some time? Do you know the percentage of liberal teachers versus conservative teachers who usually slant the teachings their own way? Were these people "educated" by liberal teachers and shown the liberal way as superior path? How many of us here take active participation in KNOWING (for our children and grandchildren's sake) what is being taught at our schools and universities, and voicing concern where need be?
  9. Amen to that one! We all need to be like little children in our approach to reading the Word, i.e. we need to come to the Word of God willing to hear from him and to learn whatever he wants to teach us, even if it goes against tradition, or culture, or religious training we have had, if those things are contrary to the teachings of scripture.

    When I started college the first time (1968), I was reading on a 4th grade level. I think I got up to a 7th grade level, though. I am not sure what grade level I read on now. I still have trouble understanding some things, and am known to hand things to my husband, sometimes, and will ask him to read it and explain to me what it says. I did this the past two days, in fact. Yet, I am thankful to God that he made me like this, because I don't have a bunch of junk he has to weed through to get through to me, and that has been beneficial for me. So many people are so highly educated religiously that they have trouble hearing the Word of God with the simplicity and trust of a child, and that is not good.
    Curtis, Brad Huber and amadeus2 like this.
  10. I think some cultures, certainly my mothers culture emphaise education and qualifications a lot. It was seen as a way to better yourself.

    But my personal experience is you could have a worldly career or you can have a vocation...a vocation is a calling from God.

    As for universities that were orginally ivory towers for the elite and I do suspect that a large amount of witches and wizards operate them, that have a secular agenda to i doctrinate people on the academic path in which few can get off the treadmill of 'publish or perish' Many are funded by freemasons and many have joined hands with mammon. HIgher education here in nz is now an export commodity, you can buy an education. It brings money into the country and then the foreign students leave again. The students get indoctrinated into the ways of the world. If you are not aware of this, its very easy to be pulled in and be recruited into the worldly system.
    In same cases, cults like the jesuits, would cream off the bright young people to be indoctrinate into spiritual exercises for the rcc. Orignially a university was solely for men to study and devite their entire life to and they had to pledge not to get married which is why they give out bachelors degrees.

    (I notice they dont give out spinster or mistress degrees) . But in the bible it does say dont be a master..we have one master the Lord Jesus christ, and I think that places like univeristies do puff people up with knowledge. I know cos I went there and was pumped full of useless informastion I will not ever use really lol. Certianly they are not schools that teach you how to love one another, but to 'get ahead' it can be a very competitive and soul destroying environment. Especially if you cant afford it...and many students cant they will go into debt for many years before earning their first penny.
    Sent from a mobile device
  11. Someone has already mentioned the need to come to Him as a little child and this is really the case. A small child not pushed or pulled too hard [educated] by parents or others will more easily come to God than the oldster who has already been thoroughly indoctrinated in the ways of men.

    Perhaps all of us will recall this verse:

    "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

    A child born to natural parents who were also people walking close to God can fully apreciate the good in that verse, but unfortunately a child is easily bent or twisted the wrong way which anyone who effectively had no parents or who had very evil parents can understand.

    The truth likely is that even the best of parents make mistakes with their own children and the course of the children's lives will most certainly reflect it. This is education, but not in its best sense.

    So where most of us likely are is with a history of too much of men's education. We had to re-learn many things that were already a part of us or become uneducated [come as a little child] in order to ever approach God. The words of John the Baptist fit well here:

    "He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

    John spoke of himself needing to effectively die so that Jesus in him could grow. The Baptist provided the example in the natural of what is needed in the spiritual:

    "And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison." Matt 14:10

    The Baptist had the wrong head as we have the wrong head until we obtain the right Head:

    "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

    Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." Eph 1:22-23

    The trappings of man, our ways, our covering, our education, our head were all wrong. Then we met the Master and as we gave Him the authority to remake us, to be our Head, to increase in us as we decreased in ourselves.

    "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." Luke 18:17

    The little child has little history of man in him so it is easier to mold him in the right mold. Man's educators know this and use it to form the child in the image of men would define as a perfect man, but God would not:

    "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." James 3:2

    And God wants us to be perfect men and He provided a Way:

    "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Eph 4:11-13
  12. Just to add depending on govt intervention is schools there was certainly a push in my country called 'the knowledge wave' or 'the information highway' back in the 90s and conversely many blue collar work or trades, were NOT funded with apprenticeships anymore. Everyone got into IT and then I also remember Japanese got taught in high schools cos they were the big investors and it was thought everyone needed to do business with the japanese. Huh, they missed that one...all the big investors and poulation is in China.

    Nowadays its STEM that is seen as 'the way of the future', technology, engineering, medicine.
    I think it comes and goes in cycles to whatver some wizard forecaster in higher up parliament things is going to bring in money to pay off their huge debts. If the children need to learn stuff, the govt will force it down their throats..this time its to be a global citizen and be a 'player on the world stage'

    Sidelined are values and character but it is up to principals, teachers and parents whether Bible is allowed in schools. Some schools are now subscribing to NWO (new world order) views. If there arent enough labourers, they will just bring in immigrants to do the task. This is what is being forecast for the elderly population..maids from phillipines. Slave labour basically. These women give up their families in their own countries to look after other families overseas. Is this fair? Its hard not to be judgemental. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and there is always a catch up game people have to play with qualification just to get a decent job anywhere. By the time youve finished one education its out of date anyway and then have to pay to be registered, then you are deep in a debt hole.

    If you want to be a plumber or electrician you are going to be in demand. You still have an education but not a formal one, I would say on the job training is as valuable as a formal education that doesnt get you anywhere. Jesus was a carpenter.. dont think many people realise that Jesus had hands on training and never had a degree or anything. Im sure he had plenty of work and did a great job. Plus at the age of 12 he was teaching with authority. I dont think any professors could hold a candle to the son of God's wisdom.
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  13. Its not free-thinking really in reply to OP in university they like to call it 'critical thinking'.

    It is based on old classical ideas of aristotle and socrates and having debates and arguments using reason and logic to trying to come to the truth. But as you know these people are ever learning but not ever coming to the truth because the truth isnt in an idea its in a person - Jesus.
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  14. It seems the more educated you are, the more likely you are to drink alcohol.

    Drinking Highest Among Educated, Upper-Income Americans

    Why Intelligent People Drink More Alcohol

    More money, more booze: poll finds people with higher incomes drink more

    I don't agree with the reasons these articles state, but at least they all agree that these people tend to drink more alcohol.
    ... and for whatever reason, the difference is higher amongst women. Uneducated women drink less than (uneducated) men.
    Educated women drink more than (educated) men.
  15. I dont think you can generalise about drinking alcohol and education.

    When the suffragists wanted women to have the vote, it was because in those days they were trying to get enough women in parliament to change the laws because of men(husbands) beating up their wives. . The husbands were drinking alcohol and spending all their money on it, leaving the wives and children with nothing. These were mostly working class men. There was a whole movement called the TEMPERANCE movement and it was Christian, and people wanted to ban alcohol.

    This really happened read the facts of history. If you were unfortuante enough to be married to a no good husband, who drank, you were at mercy to his demons. You couldnt even get a job, or it didnt pay much at all to provide for the family..and you would have had to work your fingers to the bone.

    I mean its still true today, but nowadays women can have an education if they want and supposedly earn as much as men. I dont think we do, because the types of jobs we are able to get and if we have chikdren we need to consider the effects it has on them. Not whether we can earn enough to provide, but to have the time to actually be THERE for them. Because who else is going to look after them. Daycare? Nannies? Grandparents? Not a drunken husband.

    So why would educated women drink? If they arent smart maybe they do, well they wont be in the job long and they wont have a family either if they do that.
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  16. It is only if you are rich and married to a wealthy husband that you can afford NOT to work. Everyone I know needs to be on two incomes just to survive, its crazy. Its not even enough to provide.for the household because of rates and costs of living.

    Women were called in the workforce because of the war, when the govt had to call women in becUse the men were being conscripted into the army and being you know, killed.

    Over time its become more acceptable for women to work back in the old days the only respectable professions that required a higher education open to you were teacher, nurse or secretary.

    Men dont really understand what women go through when they loses their senses and drink their families savings away. So what if its a hard day at work are you going to poison yourself more and then leave nothing for your wife and children? Just cos everyone else drinks?

    So that was why the christian temperance movement advocated for suffragism. It wasnt so women could work the same as men really it was to change the drinking laws. But you know, civil laws dont change a mans heart. Nor the women who marry someone who ends up drinking alcohol. Which is why in many cases because so many men drink, its wiser to choose not to marry. I mean, you end up not having any children and looking after the ones that are affected by their parents drinking because of neglect. But thats the price women pay.

    I mean if I went with a boyfriend that drank Id probably have had a child but no husband. There arent that many men who dont drink alcohol around because of the drinking culture in nz. Anyway. At one point the drinking age was actually lowered, so women getting the vote didnt seem to do anything. I think it was put up again when they realised it didn work. But its a HUGE problem. You cant usually tell someone not to drink just like you cant tell someone not to take drugs. They wont listen.
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  17. Amen,
    I heard a pastor say one time that you can have a wall full of degrees but if you don't know the word of God you are still very much ignorant.

    He likened all this education as dark knowledge ....

    1 Corinthians 1:20
    So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.

    Sent from a mobile device
    Curtis likes this.
  18. There's a bible college up the road from me (it now changed from a bible college to a generic one), several people I know went there and they said it isn't what it used to be.
    I went there one time to check it out, the librarian I spoke with at the desk wasn't a christian, and when I wanted to read the Bible with friends in their cafe they wouldn't turn their loud rock music down.

    I think I applied for work once there and didn't even get in interview. Despite being a qualified librarian and a christian. I am not sure they really do much outreach as all the time I've been living here I never really notice them around. I was going to be a student for a day just to check it out and find out what they actually teach but they are only interested if you are going to pay for that education, and it's expensive, thousands of dollars.

    Definitely out of reach for a lot of people.
  19. If you can cook and sew, thats the best thing, if you study so much you can't even do or have time for these basics, and have to buy everything well, the trade off is you just paying someone else to do it who's given their labour for you.

    In the end, education is just a commodity. It would be different if you didn't need to pay for education. However I don't know as was never educated in a private school to compare that over a public (or govt) school education. Tertiary education EVERYONE has to pay for and its not cheap. I think its more the people you know that are the key to a better life..

    For christians it's knowing Jesus and learning from Him.
    Wired 4 Fishen likes this.

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