The two judgments

[B-A-C]

The two judgments.

It seems many think there is only one judgment. However the Bible says there are at least two.

First there are the non-Christians, non-believers. Chronological this judgment seems to happen last (more about that later). But I'll talk about it first here because it's the easier of the two.

In John 3:18; Jesus he who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already...

In 1 Cor 6:2; Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not
competent to constitute the smallest courts?

I take this to mean the saints or not part of the world. Again, this seems to be saying the unbelievers will be judged.

In 2 Thess 2:11-12; ...in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Again, this appears to be talking about non-believers.

In Rev 11:18; ... the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

It's interesting that it says they will be judged according to their deeds.

in John 12:48; Jesus says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Hmmm... not only those who reject Jesus.. but those who reject His sayings...

Again in 1 Cor 5:12-13; Paul talks about judging those in the church... but in verse 13 he says..
"But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves,

Again we see God judges those outside the church, the non-believers.

All of the verses above seem to say that God the Father will judge the un-believers. Is this only the un-believers?
1 Peter 1:17; If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth.

Hmmm.. do unbelievers call God "Father".. this seems to be speaking to believers.

..... in any case I think we can all agree that God the father judges those outside the church.. the non-believers.
This isn't necessarily the first judgment.. but it is one of the judgments.

... coming up ... the other judgment(s). There is at least one (possibly two) other judgments.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Final Judgment is coming upon all the world

 

[B-A-C]

So... so far we have two groups of people... believers, and non-believers. Pretty simple, pretty cut and dried.
God the Father judges the non-believers, those who didn't accept His Son.

But what about believers? What about those in the kingdom? What about those already in the master's house?
What about those who call themselves believers... those who call themselves "Christians". Are they judged?

In John 5:22; Jesus says... "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
John 5:27; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28; says an hour is coming when those who are in their graves will hear His voice
verse John 5:29 .. and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resrrection of life, and those who committed
the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Again... these people are judged by their deeds. Are these believers or un-believers? Or both?

John 8:16; But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.

Rom 14:10; .... For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
Paul is speaking to believers here.

2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

There is a popular song that plays frequently on the local Christian station here. I like the group and the song..
however there is some false doctrine in the lyrics... One of the lines says.. "Thinking there's worth in what you do".
Yet the Bible teaches there is worth is what we do. We will be judged by what we do. We will be rewarded for what we do. ( 1 Cor 3:14; etc.. )

The Bible teaches that once we die, after this comes the judgment ( Heb 9:27; )
The Bible say that if we go on sinning WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

There is a difference between sinning, and willfully choosing to continue in sin. The difference is a terrifying judgment.

The Bible also says those who consider themselves teachers (I guess I would be included in this)
will incur a stricter judgment than normal believers... ( James 3:1; )
we are the one who either teach the truth, or cause people to stumble.

I said earlier that I didn't think the unelievers would be judged first... this comes mostly from 1 Pet 4:17;
For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

It seems those in the household of God are judged first. Then those who do not obey...

A possible contradiction here seems to be Rev 20:4; it says those who were beheaded during the tribulation and did not worship
the beast come to life first... thes rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. (verse 5)
But is this the believers? Or the non-believers... The other possibility is that if there is a pre-trib, those saints
will already be taken up.

... more to come ...

 

[rag4aCrown]

the non believers were of the synagogue (who said they were believers) but He was rejected by His own people

 

[B-A-C]

So we have those outside the kingdom, outside the masters house. And we have those inside the kingdom
and those inside the master's house. The non-believers on the outside... those who say they are believers
on the inside.

In Matt 13:25-30; we see there are both wheat (good seed) and tares (bad seed) in the kingdom.
But at the end of the age, the bad seed will be thrown into the fire.
Both good and bad seed is in the kingdom.

In Matt 13:47-50; it says the kingdom is a net with both good fish and bad fish in it.
But at the end of the age, the bad fish will be thrown into the fire.
Both good and bad fish are in the kingdom.

In Matt 25:1-10; it says the kingdom is like 10 virgins getting ready to meet the bridegroom.
5 were wish, five were foolish, five ran out of oil.
There are wise and unwise people in the kingdom... thinking they will meet the bridegroom
But He will shut the door on them.

Also in Matt 25:14-30; we see there are servants in the masters house... these aren't just any servants
outside the masters house.. but these are slaves in the masters house.
2 were called good and faithful servants... one was called a wicked and lazy servant and was thrown out of the
masters house.

In Matt 7:21; we see there are people who call Jesus, 'Lord, Lord'.. but it says they will not enter the kingdom
of heaven. Were they believers or un-believers? Do un-believers call Jesus "Lord'?

In Matt 25:31-46; we see the story of the sheep and the goats. This is summarized in verse 46.
The wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

In Luke 13: there is a tree in the masters vineyard. The master asks why it is there taking up space,
why doesn't it bear fruit? This isn't just any tree, but a tree in the masters vineyard.
He even takes time to fertilize this tree... and he says if it doesn't bear fruit in a year or two.. cut it down
and cast it into the fire.

So we see... bad fish in the kingdom, tares in the kingdom, bad servants in the masters house, trees that do not bear fruit
in the masters vineyard. All of these things are judged and cast out.

Jesus judges the believers. Not for what they say they believe. If they didn't believe in Him
they would be outside his kingdom, outside His church.. being judged by the Father.

But no these are people who say they believe in Jesus.. they even call him Lord Lord...

 

[B-A-C]

I said there could possibly be a third judgment... I admit I'm not sure if this happens at the same time
Jesus judges the believers or not... so it could just be two judgments.

in 1 Cor 3:12-15; it says our works will be judged. It says they will be tested by fire... some of our works will be burnt up.
But it's possible that some of our works will remain after going through the fire. Verse 14 says we will receive a reward for this.
It goes on to say, if all the work is burned up, the man himself will remain. But of course it's obvious that he won't
receive a reward.

I call this the third judgment... because it's about reward for works. Is it really a separate judgment? I don't know.

 

[Chad]

From my understanding and recollection there's two judgements. One of eternal damnation for unbelievers who reject Christ. Second for believers, no condemnation but rewards based on our faithful works. So us believers are not to fear our judgement because it's all about what our rewards will be. We anticipate this day not fear it. But our actions matter. How we live and serve Almighty God plays a role in our eternal rewards.

 

[Dovegiven]

In my opinion there were and are and will be judgements from heaven.
God judged the world in Noah's time, found it worthy of destruction.
He judged Israel worthy of destruction, but Moses interceded.

There is a most amazing judgment everyone ought to volunteer for now and for the balance of our days on earth.

Luke 6:37-38 (KJV)
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

If we judge ourselves honestly and change daily to live holy lives we won't be judged for sin. We will receive much mercy from men, angels and God, and should be found to be merciful. As we grant mercy to those who transgress around us, not condemning any, we'll receive mercy in greater abundance than given out. That verse isn't about giving money, expecting to reap a lot more. It means our neighbors will not judge us, for if we don't judge and condemn them, they will respect a peaceful neighbor, and so does God.

Romans 14:7-10 (KJV)
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

As the Lord tarries for his return, saints that die are immediately in the presence of Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:6-9 (KJV)
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

So what of the millions already with Jesus? Standing at the judgment seat of Christ, evaluated for deeds done here. Since we shall rule over angels and the world they are doubtless being prepared with assignments and training there.

There's yet another judgment by Jesus for the living on earth, particularly directed toward the Church. The first news of that is recorded of the seven principal churches of Asia Minor in Revelation. Jesus rendered commendations and some stern warnings. We know from history some candlesticks were in fact removed, only ancient relics left of those centers of Christian fellowships. I wonder how many candlesticks remain lit, or if there are yet 7 of them.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

That's one of the most sobering statements I know of.

Seeing the lost have their own resurrection a thousand years after the faithful arise intact from their graves after their spirit and soul reunite with body glorified, they will stand in the same line as Satan, the beast, and the antichrist without mercy at that last dreadful judgment throne.

A timely topic, brother.

 

[Chad]

I think this short summary from gotquestions.org sums it up nicely

There are two separate judgments. Believers are judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Romans 14:10-12). Every believer will give an account of himself, and the Lord will judge the decisions he made—including those concerning issues of conscience. This judgment does not determine salvation, which is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), but rather is the time when believers must give an account of their lives in service to Christ. Our position in Christ is the “foundation” spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. That which we build upon the foundation can be the “gold, silver, and precious stones” of good works in Christ’s name, obedience and fruitfulness—dedicated spiritual service to glorify God and build the church. Or what we build on the foundation may be the “wood, hay and stubble” of worthless, frivolous, shallow activity with no spiritual value. The Judgment Seat of Christ will reveal this.

The gold, silver and precious stones in the lives of believers will survive God’s refining fire (v. 13), and believers will be rewarded based on those good works—how faithfully we served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27), how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9), etc. We will have to give an account for our actions, whether they were truly indicative of our position in Christ. The fire of God’s judgment will completely burn up the “wood, hay and stubble” of the words we spoke and things we did which had no eternal value. “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12 ).

The second judgment is that of unbelievers who will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). This judgment does not determine salvation, either. Everyone at the Great White Throne is an unbeliever who has rejected Christ in life and is therefore already doomed to the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12 says that unbelievers will be “judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Those who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior will be judged based on their works alone, and because the Bible tells us that “by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified” (Galatians 2:16), they will be condemned. No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin. All their thoughts, words and actions will be judged against God’s perfect standard and found wanting. There will be no reward for them, only eternal condemnation and punishment.

 

[Brother-Paul]

In my opinion there were and are and will be judgements from heaven.
God judged the world in Noah's time, found it worthy of destruction.
He judged Israel worthy of destruction, but Moses interceded.

These are judgements but, they are Old Testament judgements not as the topic refers, the two final judgements.
(May be the word 'final' should have been in the topic title, easy to say afterwards)

There is a most amazing judgment everyone ought to volunteer for now and for the balance of our days on earth.

Luke 6:37-38 (KJV)
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

If we judge ourselves honestly and change daily to live holy lives we won't be judged for sin. We will receive much mercy from men, angels and God, and should be found to be merciful. As we grant mercy to those who transgress around us, not condemning any, we'll receive mercy in greater abundance than given out. That verse isn't about giving money, expecting to reap a lot more. It means our neighbors will not judge us, for if we don't judge and condemn them, they will respect a peaceful neighbor, and so does God.

Romans 14:7-10 (KJV)
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

As the Lord tarries for his return, saints that die are immediately in the presence of Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:6-9 (KJV)
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

I feel these are instructions of how to live now, whilst we are still alive.

'for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ.' future tense.
'We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.' Looking ahead.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

That's one of the most sobering statements I know of.

1 Peter refers initially to now... 'For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:'
but then goes on to say... 'and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?' looking ahead
So, I feel these scriptures are a warning and instruction for our lives now, life before first death.
The topic is referring to the two judgements after death in this life so we continue to discuss and explore The Truth in The Word.

There are two separate judgments. Believers are judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Romans 14:10-12). Every believer will give an account of himself, and the Lord will judge the decisions he made—including those concerning issues of conscience. This judgment does not determine salvation, which is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), but rather is the time when believers must give an account of their lives in service to Christ. Our position in Christ is the “foundation” spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. That which we build upon the foundation can be the “gold, silver, and precious stones” of good works in Christ’s name, obedience and fruitfulness—dedicated spiritual service to glorify God and build the church. Or what we build on the foundation may be the “wood, hay and stubble” of worthless, frivolous, shallow activity with no spiritual value. The Judgment Seat of Christ will reveal this.

1 - the believers judgement. (above)

This to me, appears to fit the topic, the two judgements after our first death for believers.

The second judgment is that of unbelievers who will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). This judgment does not determine salvation, either. Everyone at the Great White Throne is an unbeliever who has rejected Christ in life and is therefore already doomed to the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12 says that unbelievers will be “judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Those who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior will be judged based on their works alone, and because the Bible tells us that “by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified” (Galatians 2:16), they will be condemned. No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin. All their thoughts, words and actions will be judged against God’s perfect standard and found wanting. There will be no reward for them, only eternal condemnation and punishment.

2 - the unbelievers judgement (above)

This, to me, appears to fit the topic, the judgements after our first death for unbelievers.

Additional notes/comments.

Not seeing it mentioned above, I feel the need to add, the judgement is for everything we do, think and say.

Whether for God or not for God.

This is an interesting topic but so far we have only spoke of the two judgements, we have not discussed the timing of these judgements. Would anyone like to fill in these gaps, including scripture; to date I must admit I have not completed a full study on the timings of the judgements, something else always seems to crop up. At present I am starting a study on Heaven, a much avoided subject in the churches, a sister has some questions and I feel led to understand more of this glorious place we will live for eternity and to be able to tell her more. Strange isn't it how many go through life without knowing what heaven is like, yet we as born again believers are to spend eternity their! Who wouldn't go on holiday to a place they have not been before without first finding out about the place yet, so many listen to non-scripture based waffle of what Heaven is really like and are happy to believe it!!!