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The Trinity?

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k4c

Hello to all,

The Bible teaches us that the one true God is Spirit, eternal, unseen, self existing, having all knowledge and power and is immortal, which means, He can never die.

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.'

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13-16 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


With this in mind.

How many Spirits make up God?

Please use Scripture to prove your faith.
 
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Member
k4c said:
Hello to all,
The Bible teaches us that the one true God is Spirit, eternal, unseen, self existing, having all knowledge and power and is immortal, which means, He can never die.
With this in mind.
How many Spirits make up God?
Please use Scripture to prove your faith.
How about you go first? Oh, and please use scripture.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
K4c. Read the forum rules. If you say what GOD says, you must provide proof. Not that hard.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
This has been discussed many times so I will simply copy/paste my responses from the other threads. Although GOD is made of 3 persons as One GOD - it is One Spirit. I have purposely marked them in red (any names pertaining to the 3 person of our One GOD). My information below should show that GOD is 3 persons in One Spirit, One GOD.

Acts 5:30-32

30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Acts 7:55-57
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [ Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals ] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Trinity: Webster’s dictionary gives the following definition of trinity: “The union of three divine persons (or hypostases), the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one divinity, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three Persons (or hypostases as to individuality).” Synonyms sometimes used are triunity, trine, triality. The term “trinity” is formed from “tri,” three, and “nity,” unity. Triunity is a better term than “trinity” because it better expresses the idea of three in one. God is three in one. Hypostases is the plural of hypostasis which means “the substance, the underlying reality, or essence.”

Tri-theism. This is the teaching that there are three Gods who are sometimes related, but only in a loose association. Such an approach, abandons the biblical oneness of God and the unity within the Trinity

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Ephesians 4:4-6There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

James 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”

There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).

Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead.
  • In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament.
  • The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20).
  • The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.”
  • The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).
(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).

(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”

Ryrie writes: “Matthew 28:19 best states both the oneness and threeness by associating equally the three Persons and uniting them in one singular name. Other passages like Matthew 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 associate equally the three Persons but do not contain the strong emphasis on unity as does Matthew 28:19.”18

2 Cor. 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, tat you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

Dictionary:

Gentiles
(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.


In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1, 3; 18:17; Rom. 1:14), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation.
 
Member

k4c

Chad said:
This has been discussed many times so I will simply copy/paste my responses from the other threads. Although GOD is made of 3 persons as One GOD - it is One Spirit. I have purposely marked them in red (any names pertaining to the 3 person of our One GOD). My information below should show that GOD is 3 persons in One Spirit, One GOD.

Acts 5:30-32

30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Acts 7:55-57
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [ Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals ] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Trinity: Webster’s dictionary gives the following definition of trinity: “The union of three divine persons (or hypostases), the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one divinity, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three Persons (or hypostases as to individuality).” Synonyms sometimes used are triunity, trine, triality. The term “trinity” is formed from “tri,” three, and “nity,” unity. Triunity is a better term than “trinity” because it better expresses the idea of three in one. God is three in one. Hypostases is the plural of hypostasis which means “the substance, the underlying reality, or essence.”

Tri-theism. This is the teaching that there are three Gods who are sometimes related, but only in a loose association. Such an approach, abandons the biblical oneness of God and the unity within the Trinity

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Ephesians 4:4-6There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

James 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”

There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).

Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead.
  • In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament.
  • The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20).
  • The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.”
  • The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).
(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).

(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”

Ryrie writes: “Matthew 28:19 best states both the oneness and threeness by associating equally the three Persons and uniting them in one singular name. Other passages like Matthew 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 associate equally the three Persons but do not contain the strong emphasis on unity as does Matthew 28:19.”18

2 Cor. 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, tat you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

Dictionary:

Gentiles
(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.


In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1, 3; 18:17; Rom. 1:14), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation.
This all sounds good but if you truly allow the Bible to speak for itself you won't find these things as you stated them.

The trinity belief teaches us there is a God the Father who is eternal and God the Son who is also eternal and God the Spirit who is also eternal.

If God is Spirit and eternal and the other spirit is eternal then that makes two eternal spirits. The Bible is clear when it says there is but one Spirit. This being true then one of these spirits is a different spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it.

One important key to understanding the Bible is not to use verses to interpret the Bible but rather use the Bible to interpret the verses.
 
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Staff Member
GOD knows our hearts. If one teaches that "trinity" is One GOD of three persons rather than teaching "trinity" is 3 Gods, 3 persons than it is safe that the person who preaches One GOD made of 3 persons is not going against the will of the Father in Heaven.

I can understand (as many do) how some take trinity as "3 Gods" instead of 3 persons. The Bible does not say "trinity" or "triune" but the evidence in Scripture shows that GOD is One made of 3 persons (3 persons make up One and only Living GOD).
 
Member
The great shamai passage quoted above is authoritative as to the numerical oneness or unity of God; he is one and there are no others. It is also authoritative qualitativly in the sense of simplicity, not composed of parts and indivisible. We must confes God is one. "Let us make man in our image", "let us go down and confound their language", and "Who will go for us?" all express the triune eternal councils of the one God who is spirit. The first words of the bible show this unity of being: "barashit ha barra elohim et ha arrets et ha shamim": the subject is elohim a plural noun, more than two, and the verb is barra a singular verb requiring a singular subject; this is the one God who is spirit. The plurality then, like in the plural council passages, is as to the persons who eternaly subsist of the one and indivisible spiritual nature. The accurences of Spirit, Spirit of Christ, Holy Spirit cannot therefore be a progressive count of spirits but rather a count of the persons who are each God who is spirit. In the Isiah 48:16 passage above where Yahway and his Spirit send Yahway (the one who is speaking in the text) this is not a counting of spirits but of persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Yahway who is sent being the redeemer of Israel, the creator, the sovereign and judge of nations. Does this help? DGB

If one cannot distinguish between persons and natures in these texts we might well ask how can one deal with seven spirits of one Christ, like we have in Rev.4:5. DGB
 
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k4c said:
This all sounds good but if you truly allow the Bible to speak for itself you won't find these things as you stated them.
The trinity belief teaches us there is a God the Father who is eternal and God the Son who is also eternal and God the Spirit who is also eternal.
The Bible is indeed clear, and this is the definitive scripture:

Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

This plainly states one Spirit

k4c said:
If God is Spirit and eternal and the other spirit is eternal then that makes two eternal spirits. The Bible is clear when it says there is but one Spirit. This being true then one of these spirits is a different spirit.

Please use Scripture to prove your faith.
Without the courtesy of providing the verse reference, you have then used the following verse to attempt to make a case contrary to a straightforward scriptural truth, one Spirit.

John 4:24 (CEV) God is Spirit, and those who worship God must be led by the Spirit to worship him according to the truth.
John 4:24 (NASB) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

While this is one of those verses where different versions variously reference spirit with or without the upper case designation, there is no justification for interpreting the scripture to mean there are two Spirits. It is a simple statement about the type of being God is. There are evil spirits, the spiritual realms, and even the seven Spirits of God (Revelation 3:1, 4:5, 5:6). We know there is one God who consists of three Persons and He is eternal spirit, as opposed to body, soul, or an unknown object. John 4:24 is Jesus telling the woman at the well what type of being is the true God. In context:

John 4:21-24(NKJV) Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and truth."

The attempt to read implied philosophy between the lines of John chapter 4 to make a case for two Spirits is baseless and denies the indisputable statement in Ephesians 4:4 that there is one Spirit.
 
Member
Philippians 2:5-11
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6*who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7*but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8*and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9* Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10*that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11*and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Member
jiggyfly said:
Philippians 2:5-11
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6*who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7*but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8*and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9* Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10*that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11*and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Amen. Jesus voluntarily came in the flesh, without which mankind would not have been able to know God as one with whom to be identified. The Lord Jesus during His life spoke truth to men so that they could understand God, omniscient eternal Spirit, as both being able to do all things and knowable by the most insignificant appearing of mortal humankind.

While He lived, Jesus was baptized and dependent upon the power of the Holy Spirit, just as we are now. Jesus conquered our sin which is death, was resurrected to show that God has sovereign power over death, and returned to God the Father to be seated at His right hand.

"It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazereth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. Then a voice came from heaven, 'You are My beloved Son, in whom I am will pleased.'" (Mark 1:9-11)

"If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things of the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory." (Colossians 3:1-4)

With His death and resurrection, Jesus Christ permanently defeated the devil, whose fall came because of the first sin of God's creation, pride. (Isaiah 14:12-15) It was the very perfection of humility in our Lord Christ that was the one and only weapon to eliminate its antithesis, pride.

"Then Jesus said to him, 'Away with you, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve."'" (Matthew 4:10)

Taking within us the Crucifixion of Christ, we die to self and thus are resurrected to new life, His life within us. The salvation of our souls is accomplished by the sealing of the Holy Spirit in our spirits. As we confess the Lordship of Jesus, putting aside ourselves to give all glory to our Father, the Holy Spirit who was given to men by the sacrifice of the eternal Son of God, points us always to the only earthly example of perfect innocence, the Lamb of God. Our one body with many members, the body of Christ, is unified by the Holy spirit, to give glory to God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ.

"'He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The words that I speak ot you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.'" (John 14:8b-10)

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)


"For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height - to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen."
(Ephesians 4:14-21)
 
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Member

k4c

To quote Scripture verses without truly understanding what they are saying does not help in bringing truth to light.

Many of our Bible translations have a Trinitarian influence inserted into the verses by the translators. This makes it hard to draw out the truth of God's nature without having an understanding of the Bible as a whole.

Verses such as Philippians 2:6.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

We know from the rest of Scripture as a whole that there is no one equal with God so to say that Jesus, who is the form or image of God, is equal to God when the rest of the Bible says something different leads to false beliefs.

Many other translations don't say these same words and neither does the Bible as a whole teach that anyone is equal with the one true God.

-- Revised Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.

-- New American Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God
something to be grasped.

-- New American with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

We know from Scripture as a whole that Jesus is not equal with God.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

John 14:28 Remember what I told you--I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really love me, you will be very happy for me, for now I can go to the Father, who is greater than I am.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God. An image is never the real thing but rather an image or representative of the real thing.

We have been taught to believe that Jesus is equal with the Father but Jesus' own words as well as the Bible as a whole do not teach us this. Even when Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father on High He is not equal with the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For the rule and authority over all things has been given to Christ by his Father; except, of course, Christ does not rule over the Father himself, who gave him this power to rule.
 
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k4c said:
To quote Scripture verses without truly understanding what they are saying does not help in bringing truth to light.
Many of our Bible translations have a Trinitarian influence inserted into the verses by the translators. This makes it hard to draw out the truth of God's nature without having an understanding of the Bible as a whole.
Verses such as Philippians 2:6.
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
We know from the rest of Scripture as a whole that there is no one equal with God so to say that Jesus, who is the form or image of God, is equal to God when the rest of the Bible says something different leads to false beliefs.
Many other translations don't say these same words and neither does the Bible as a whole teach that anyone is equal with the one true God.
-- Revised Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.
-- New American Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped.
-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God
something to be grasped.
-- New American with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.
We know from Scripture as a whole that Jesus is not equal with God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
John 14:28 Remember what I told you--I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really love me, you will be very happy for me, for now I can go to the Father, who is greater than I am.
Jesus is the image of the invisible God. An image is never the real thing but rather an image or representative of the real thing.
We have been taught to believe that Jesus is equal with the Father but Jesus' own words as well as the Bible as a whole do not teach us this. Even when Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father on High He is not equal with the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For the rule and authority over all things has been given to Christ by his Father; except, of course, Christ does not rule over the Father himself, who gave him this power to rule.
So tell me then, how does your doctrine benefit anyone in their spiritual relationship with God any better than those who believe in the Trinity doctrine?
 
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k4c

jiggyfly said:
So tell me then, how does your doctrine benefit anyone in their spiritual relationship with God any better than those who believe in the Trinity doctrine?
That's a question you need to ask God.
 
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k4c said:
That's a question you need to ask God.
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Hello to all,

The Bible teaches us that the one true God is Spirit, eternal, unseen, self existing, having all knowledge and power and is immortal, which means, He can never die.

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.'

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13-16 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

With this in mind.

How many Spirits make up God?

Please use Scripture to prove your faith
.
I asked you to answer your own question but so far you haven't. Why not?
 
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k4c said:
To quote Scripture verses without truly understanding what they are saying does not help in bringing truth to light.
Verses such as Philippians 2:6.
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
-- Revised Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.
-- New American Standard
Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped.
-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God
something to be grasped.
-- New American with Apocrypha
Philippians 2:6 Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.
I am sorry to say that your statement about being without true understanding of Scripture apparently applies to your interpretation of Philippians 2:6.

Here is the meaning of the verse working from both wordings:

The rendering in which the word "robbery" is used means that Christ did not consider Himself robbed by giving up His eternal form as God and making Himself so lowly as to allow men (and women) to be equal to Him.

In the other rendering, "grasped" means "something to be clung to." The scripture is stating that Jesus did not consider His equality with God something that He needed to cling to.

The word "form," defined from the original Greek, "morfh," is defined as "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision." It simply prefaces that Jesus relinquished being seen as God by men.

With either wording, the verse states the fact of Jesus having humbled himself and given up His "status" as God in the sight of men.

k4c, I recognize a very specialized form of doctrine in the things you say, and it is from interpretive denominational teachings that are generally not recognized by Christianity as a whole.
 
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K4c is gone. We know his motive by now. After running Talk Jesus for 3 years, I can smell the wolves from far away. No disruption or mis-context on Scripture allowed on Talk Jesus.
 
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k4c
et al --who knows all interpretation of scripture.? who can interpret scripture but the Holy Spirit.? I'm always cagey :embarasse with those who seem to believe they have ''deeper knowledge ''

My thoughts on -------> John 16:12-16.
I (Jesus)have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you in all truth.
He (Jesus speaking-H/Spirit)will speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, & he will tell you what is yet to come.(Hears from God!)
He (H/Spirit)
will bring glory to me (Jesus-God) by taking from what is mine (God-Jesus) & making it known to you.
All[right][/right] that belongs to the Father (God) is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine (Jesus) & make it known to you.
my emphasis
[/quote]
 
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My take on the trinity

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I found this site yesterday. Pretty cool.

My take on the trinity: Many people have a problem with believing that 3 separate entities can actually be the same thing. But it is not that impossible of a concept if you can keep from getting bogged down in the minutia.

The fingerprint of the trinity is all over nature, as J. Vernon McGee used to say. One example is a frozen river in the winter time. After a big snowfall, you could walk down to that river and dig through the snow to get to the ice, then break through the ice to get to the water flowing underneath. Here we have snow, ice & water, three forms of the same thing, all in the same place.

A whole, homemade cherry pie (all gooey & runny) is another good illustration. You can take a knife and cut the crust, leaving 3 big pieces visible to the eye, but inside it all just runs back together and is still one big pie internally. God divided the crust so we could see and potentially understand some of His glory. How else could we relate to the Master of the Universe? I can barely relate to the CEO of my company. But, knowing that God cared enough to walk in our shoes as a servant, wow... that just blows me away.

Not such a difficult concept, this 3-in-1 phenom. Kinda simplistic illustrations, but Jesus talked about childlike faith, and the kiddies don't have to have a theological degree to understand spiritual truths. Keeping it simple works for me.
 

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