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The son of perdition

jari

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Jun 23, 2007
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it seems the anti christ is the foe Jesus will destroy at His coming. this is what I believe Paul also spoke about.

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Rev 13:
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

and this beast is destroyed among with the false prophet in

Rev 19:
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

the appearance of Son of perdition is prerequisite for Jesus return and the rapture. So i believe Rev 19 is the rapture then. Because that's when the beast is destroyed like Paul said.

what do you think?
 
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it seems the anti christ is the foe Jesus will destroy at His coming. this is what I believe Paul also spoke about.

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Rev 13:
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

and this beast is destroyed among with the false prophet in

Rev 19:
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

the appearance of Son of perdition is prerequisite for Jesus return and the rapture. So i believe Rev 19 is the rapture then. Because that's when the beast is destroyed like Paul said.

what do you think?

I actually believe this to be the case as well.
I wonder if it's someone who is alive right now, I wonder if it's a famous world leader/politician in the world right now. I wonder how much warning we will have before the rapture. I'm not sure all of that really matters, I just want to be ready when it happens.
 
Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
Rev 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Some think this is a parallel prophecy, Jesus' family fled to Egypt when he was born (Matt 2:13-14)
We know that after a period of time (possibly 1260 days) an angel told them to go back to Israel (Matt 2:19)

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (also see Isaiah 14:12-14; Luke 10:18 and 2 Peter 2:4)

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
Rev 13:3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;
Rev 13:4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
Rev 13:5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

If you aren't taken up in the rapture, you will either be captured, killed, or worship the beast.

Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.
Rev 13:14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
Rev 13:15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

There will be a second beast, sort of "second in command" (vice president?) who is like the beast.

Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Rev 14:8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality."
Rev 14:9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God
, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Once you receive the mark of the beast, it's all over. There is no forgiveness, no repentance, no second chance.

Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.
Rev 15:2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.

There will be some who get saved during the "reign of the beast" (some say this will be the tribulation).

Rev 16:10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,
Rev 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east.
Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
Rev 16:14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
Rev 16:15 ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")
Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,
Rev 17:5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
Rev 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,

Some believe this to be Rome, it is still called the city of seven mountains (or seven hills) even today, although it has long since gotten larger than the original seven hills, it is also a city "on the water". Many believe the "Lady on the Beast" to be an incarnation of the "Queen of Heaven" mentioned in Jeremiah 44:17-25.

Rev 17:10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
Rev 17:11 "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
Rev 17:13 "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."
Rev 17:15 And he *said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
Rev 17:17 "For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.
Rev 17:18 "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

Some believe the Roman church will voluntarily give it's "power" to the beast, then the beast will betray the church and make war on it.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

After the rapture and tribulation, (most likely during the millennial reign, which also lasts 1,000 years) Satan will be temporarily imprisoned.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

We see here again, some will be saved during the tribulation.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Those who get saved during the tribulation will rule and reign with Christ during the millennial reign.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

When Satan is released, he will gather up an army who's number is "like the sands of the seashore" and try one last battle against God. But fire will come down from Heaven and defeat them.
 
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I actually believe this to be the case as well.
I wonder if it's someone who is alive right now, I wonder if it's a famous world leader/politician in the world right now. I wonder how much warning we will have before the rapture. I'm not sure all of that really matters, I just want to be ready when it happens.

yes I have thought of the same thing but Paul told the believers they should not expect Jesus to return until the son of perdition is revealed.
So Paul actually gave this info about him to serve as a sign. "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed"
 
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I don't understand why this isnt generally teached.
people rather preach that christ could return at any moment, but the reason Paul wrote about son of perdition was to tell them it's not so.
 
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Hey Jari.

Matthew 25

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
 
Hello Jari.

In your thread you quoted,

2 Thessalonians 2
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Of course the son of perdition is revealed when Jesus returns!

Does this mean that we will not be able to identify him before Jesus returns?
 
david as i intented to point out the only reason Paul wrote his letter was because the son of perdition is revelead, before Lord returns.
if he wasnt. then Paul would have not even talked about him.
 
Hello Jari.

Some interference, I did not understand your last post.

If you could clarify, thanks Jari.
 
the believers thought day of Lord could be at hand. But Paul had told them before and told them again it wont happen until son of perdition is revealed. 5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
by this thing we know day of Lord is not at hand.

if son of perdition would come lets say at the day as day of the Lord then there would not be any point for Paul to tell them to look for revealing of son of perdition and not think day of the Lord is at hand.

but the very reason Paul told them about son of perdition was because believers were thinking day of the Lord could be at hand.
"2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
"3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

Paul's purpose of writing this was to give them a sign . so that no man could tell them day of the Lord would be at hand, unless they first see the son of perdition revealed.
that was the sign given.

4"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
 
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so if Paul is telling me day of the Lord wont be yet. not untill the son of perdition is revealed.
then I believe Him.
i would be looking for the son of perdition revealed first and when that happens i can start expecting Jesus to return and He will destroy the son of perdition at His coming.
 
Hello again Jari.

So you are saying that first the son of perdition must be revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath

of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;


I always read this verse as the revealing of the lawless one occurs
when Jesus arrives.

Interesting, I will study this a bit more Jari.
 
yes if the son of perdition would be revealed just before Lord returns then there would have been no point for Paul to write what he did.
He wrote about Lord's day not being at hand yet...
 
The rapture is after the tribulation and after the false prophet has arrived and will not happen until the LAST TRUMP which is at the end.

2 Thessalonians 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Mark 13

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(emphasis mine)

You see the Word says it.
 
The rapture is after the tribulation and after the false prophet has arrived and will not happen until the LAST TRUMP which is at the end.

2 Thessalonians 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Mark 13

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(emphasis mine)

You see the Word says it.

The second coming is not the rapture.
These are two different events.
Matt 24:4-31 is one event, Matt 24:36-46 is another event.
It's the same in Mark.
Mark 13:4-27 is one event, Mark 13:32-37 is another event.
1Thess 5:2-4 is one event, 2Thess 1:7-10 is the other event. (This actually continues over into 2Thess 2:4)

I agree with the verses above, people will be saved during the tribulation. Jesus will gather them with him during the second coming.

In the rapture, Jesus comes in the twinkling of an eye (1Cor 15:52; , like a thief in the night (Matt 24:43 and 1Thes 5:2; Rev 16:15) at a time no one expects (Matt 24:50; Luke 12:40; Luke 12:46) Jesus says no one knows except the father (Matt 24:36; Mark 13:32)
Jesus doesn't come down to the earth during the rapture.

Does a thief in the night come with lights flashing? Trumpets blaring?

During the second event, Jesus comes come great glory and power.
(Matt 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27) Notice the events in these verses happen after the tribulation (Matt 24:21; Matt 24:29; Mark 13:19; The beast has already been revealed (2Thess 2:2) He is coming to battle the beast with his army. (Rev 19:11-15)
How could this happen before the tribulation and the beast was revealed?
He comes with a shout and a trumpet (1Thess 4:15-17) The believers "that are still alive" (made it through the tribulation) with be caught up together with Jesus and "them" in the clouds (verse 17)
Them = believers from the rapture.
He comes with lightning flashing across the sky (Matt 24:27; Luke 17:24) and every eye will see him.

Notice which way the traffic is going... in the rapture believers are being taken UP TO heaven,
In the second event, Christ and his army are coming back DOWN TO the earth.
Also if Jesus came down to earth and defeated the beast before the tribulation, who would he be coming back to fight?
 
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The second coming is not the rapture.
These are two different events.
Matt 24:4-31 is one event, Matt 24:36-46 is another event.
It's the same in Mark.
Mark 13:4-27 is one event, Mark 13:32-37 is another event.
1Thess 5:2-4 is one event, 2Thess 1:7-10 is the other event. (This actually continues over into 2Thess 2:4)

I agree with the verses above, people will be saved during the tribulation. Jesus will gather them with him during the second coming.

In the rapture, Jesus comes in the twinkling of an eye (1Cor 15:52; , like a thief in the night (Matt 24:43 and 1Thes 5:2; Rev 16:15) at a time no one expects (Matt 24:50; Luke 12:40; Luke 12:46) Jesus says no one knows except the father (Matt 24:36; Mark 13:32)
Jesus doesn't come down to the earth during the rapture.

Does a thief in the night come with lights flashing? Trumpets blaring?

During the second event, Jesus comes come great glory and power.
(Matt 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27) Notice the events in these verses happen after the tribulation (Matt 24:21; Matt 24:29; Mark 13:19; The beast has already been revealed (2Thess 2:2) He is coming to battle the beast with his army. (Rev 19:11-15)
How could this happen before the tribulation and the beast was revealed?
He comes with a shout and a trumpet (1Thess 4:15-17) The believers "that are still alive" (made it through the tribulation) with be caught up together with Jesus and "them" in the clouds (verse 17)
Them = believers from the rapture.
He comes with lightning flashing across the sky (Matt 24:27; Luke 17:24) and every eye will see him.

Notice which way the traffic is going... in the rapture believers are being taken UP TO heaven,
In the second event, Christ and his army are coming back DOWN TO the earth.
Also if Jesus came down to earth and defeated the beast before the tribulation, who would he be coming back to fight?

i disagree with your explanation as there is really only one rapture and it is at the end after the tribulation not two seperate events of one secret rapture and one open rapture No no it is only one event.

There are many many people that believe pre-trib rapture but as most often the majority is wrong, i recommend to keep studying and pray about it. Seek God about this because believeing in pre-trib makes a christian weaker because everyone will be crying out for God to come and will not be prepared for the severe tribulations because they have believed in the rapture before the tribulation and so this is a weakness and satan knows that that is why he imagined this lie. that wicked deceiver that he is that wicked vile serpent.
 
i disagree with your explanation as there is really only one rapture and it is at the end after the tribulation not two seperate events of one secret rapture and one open rapture No no it is only one event.

There are many many people that believe pre-trib rapture but as most often the majority is wrong, i recommend to keep studying and pray about it. Seek God about this because believeing in pre-trib makes a christian weaker because everyone will be crying out for God to come and will not be prepared for the severe tribulations because they have believed in the rapture before the tribulation and so this is a weakness and satan knows that that is why he imagined this lie. that wicked deceiver that he is that wicked vile serpent.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
To me being prepared for the rapture is MUCH more important than being prepared for the tribulation. One determines suffering for 7 years, the other determines suffering for eternity. As for studying and praying, I've been doing that over 35 years. The lie is that we will have warning and can live however we want to until it happens because "we will know in advance". (Oh I'll just accept Jesus later, we will have plenty of warning) Does Satan care if we suffer for 7 years? Maybe, but I suspect he is much more concerned with where we will spend eternity. Just like Jesus.
 
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bac theres no scripture stating tribulation would be only 7 years long. but you and others always post that as if it were fact.

do you believe you are saved only if you "watch"?

if so i totally understand why this doctrine is important to you.
it seems like this whole thing is tied to your doctrine of salvation.
 
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