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The Shack - Book and DVD

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Has anyone Read the book 'The Shack'?

And/or watched the DVD?

The DVD is based on the International Best Seller book 'The Shack' by William Paul Young

It is a truly amazing story of a Christian family when life was turned upside down by unexpected issues and how God helped and led them through them to eventually find peace.

I don't want to say any more at this stage other than I highly recommend the book, the reason for the post is to ask who has read it or watched the DVD.

Those who have read the book or seen the film, please do not disclose the ending.

Blessings
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Has anyone Read the book 'The Shack'?

And/or watched the DVD?

The DVD is based on the International Best Seller book 'The Shack' by William Paul Young

It is a truly amazing story of a Christian family when life was turned upside down by unexpected issues and how God helped and led them through them to eventually find peace.

I don't want to say any more at this stage other than I highly recommend the book, the reason for the post is to ask who has read it or watched the DVD.

Those who have read the book or seen the film, please do not disclose the ending.

Blessings
Hello Brother Paul,
Yes for the book and no for the DVD. I won't be watching it. I have a review on the book that I can provide you if you'd like. I ask because the review delves into specific issues found in the book, and which I can only assume one will find in the DVD as well. It touches on the basic overview, and certain specific portions of the story found in the book. I don't want to spoil it for you, should you decide to read it, watch it. I believe you are sound enough theologically to see what the reviewer and I saw that was being communicated. If I had to pick one word of many to describe the book it would be "Universalism".

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about. I was hearing a lot on this book a few years ago. So, I researched it and then read it. Truth be told, it was a well written book, but the theology was way off. It speaks to a persons emotions, but not with Biblical accuracy though it makes you believe the Spiritual concepts imparted are.

Testimony of an unbeliever who read it: I worked along with a young woman who leaves an alternate live style (Lesbian), and had once told me, that the only reason she couldn't follow what was in the Bible though she believed it, was because of the life she lived. With that being said, she actually read the book, and what she said left me stunned. She said, "If it was the Bible, she'd read it every day, and carry it with her." :crying:

So, let me know if/when or not on the book review.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

P.S. The subject of the Shack (book) has been brought up before here on Talk Jesus. If you're curious, you can probably do a search and find the thread.
 
Active
Hello Brother Paul,
Yes for the book and no for the DVD. I won't be watching it. I have a review on the book that I can provide you if you'd like. I ask because the review delves into specific issues found in the book, and which I can only assume one will find in the DVD as well. It touches on the basic overview, and certain specific portions of the story found in the book. I don't want to spoil it for you, should you decide to read it, watch it. I believe you are sound enough theologically to see what the reviewer and I saw that was being communicated. If I had to pick one word of many to describe the book it would be "Universalism".

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about. I was hearing a lot on this book a few years ago. So, I researched it and then read it. Truth be told, it was a well written book, but the theology was way off. It speaks to a persons emotions, but not with Biblical accuracy though it makes you believe the Spiritual concepts imparted are.

Testimony of an unbeliever who read it: I worked along with a young woman who leaves an alternate live style (Lesbian), and had once told me, that the only reason she couldn't follow what was in the Bible though she believed it, was because of the life she lived. With that being said, she actually read the book, and what she said left me stunned. She said, "If it was the Bible, she'd read it every day, and carry it with her." :crying:

So, let me know if/when or not on the book review.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

P.S. The subject of the Shack (book) has been brought up before here on Talk Jesus. If you're curious, you can probably do a search and find the thread.
Hi Nick thanks for your comments

A friend told me about the book, he suggested it may help my wife's searching heart, he is a born again believer, probably the only person I would trust my life on earth with other than my wife. We have both been Christians for around 30 years now, we have remained close friends over the period, even when we moved 300 miles away.

I purchased the book first and not long into the book I spoke to him about my concerns, his reply was read it to the end. Numerous times I expressed the same concern, every time I got the same reply, read it to the end brother.

There is no doubt the book is well written, for a searching heart or new babe in Christ I can see some gains, but I did have some concerns myself.

It would be wrong to spill the beans on the story as it is so well put together, but one thing hit me, regarding my wife and myself, when I came to faith, it was out of the blue for my wife, I had always condemned Bible bashers, and in my old past my heart was hard due what I had experienced from a young age and through my childhood and teens, so much so it was always said, not by me, that is I disliked anyone they may as well be dead. Words were my sword. If anyone tried to tell me about God, Jesus, Christianity, Church, they got both barrels. But after a change in my life, due to an unexpected situation, we moved 300 miles to a place I had never been before and knew nothing about. It was here my heart started searching, privately, and it was here I accepted the Lord, boy didn't I cry.

I have shared previously how suddenly one day I said to my wife 'I am going to Church on Sunday', she didn't believe me, so much so she drove me there. No need to quote more here. But, as I came to faith, I am an all or nothing person in everything and my faith was no exception. I was not the man my wife married and the spiritual battle commenced. It was Hell on earth, I had already been divorced once and lost my kids in that marriage, now my wife was threatening the same. as time went on and the battle worsened, I had to stop going to the church, I could not understand then why, I was punished as a none Christian, I was being punished now for being one.

God provides away, one day I went to a bungalow to survey it, the couple let me in and I did what I was there to do and headed for the door to leave. As I stood on the doorstep the guy said, you have problems don't you, are you a Christian? I was gob smacked. They invited me in and we chatted and had prayer, this became very valuable time, the guy was a retired Pentecostal minister, they explained the spiritual battle and prayed for the chains the devil held over me would come off and lots more.

But, something else happened before this, around the time of coming to Christ. I was surveying another property, coming out of the roof void the unexpected happened. The carpet, which was cut into doorways and appeared fixed wasn't, the carpet was on varnished floorboards I found out later, as my ladder slipped and I pulled my hands from the loft hatch to stop them being caught in the lid, I twisted and my coccyx hit the corner of a radiator. Ouch was not the word. I got hoe with blood every ware the car was a mess, I went to the hospital, nothing was broken, the pain was excruciating. I was given very strong pain killer and anti-inflammatory, the pain wouldn't go, so my doctor doubled the dose of the pain killer, I had an allergic reaction. What followed was prescribed drug after prescribed drug, 13 in all. 10 by one doctor, 3 by two others. My skin was now peeling, I pleaded with the doctor what was happening, do something please. She said I can refer you to a dermatologist but the waiting list is up to 6 months. That same afternoon I lined up all the prescribed drugs on the cupboard top, I was going to go to the doctor again with a list of the drugs, at that point the door bell rang. She came in, I showed her the drugs, she said I want to check a few things with you, she checked my over and then said, I want you to go to hospital for some more checks, can you contact you wife.

My wife came home straight away, we packed the basics and went to the hospital, I was admitted into an isolation ward, the only people allowed in were the doctors or nurses, all totally covered in white plastic, my family were not allowed in either at the start. I told them of the prescribed drugs, they were not interested, They kept asking had I been abroad, had I worked on drains recently, I said no to both but they kept asking. The doctor had covered herself well or they stuck together to try find something else to blame for the issues I was experiencing. It was like something from outer space seeing them come in clad in white plastic. They stopped all drugs and the body was on fire. Three oscillating fans were round the bed and they kept putting calamine lotion all over my body to get the heat down. My liver had close to failed, they called me the yellow man.

Because this happened around the time of coming to faith my wife said, I had had an illucination, she wouldn't accept anything else, it is amazing how none believers will always look for reasons or excuses, it was similar in the film The Shack, it was at first considered Mac had had an illusination.

Moving on, the DVD follows the story in the book, possibly with slight variations ,but one part in the book was not added in the film, I am sure there are a few reasons for this, one being how the story ends, another being it is a 2 hour film.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Hello Brother,
So, you were just testing the waters on the book & DVD. :smile:
I must apologize because it was my wrong assumption in reading the last line of your post, that had me believing you had not. My fault.
That being said, I'll add the review I spoke of after this post. You are welcome to consider it in view of having already read the book.

Still, at least this has given me the joy of hearing more of your life's testimony. Some of which you have previously posted on other threads. Still, thank-you for sharing it with me/us.

How God moves in our life amazes me as I hear/read testimonies of Brothers & Sisters who have come to the Lord. Most times in the hearing, we realize this is not something we'd want to go through ourselves, and so praise God even more. Finding each unique, to the person, as we are to God. So, I don't tire of hearing how God has touched each one of us. Just makes it all the more amazing for it.

However, I do take something from your writing and if wrong please let me know. Your wife is not a believer? Still seeking is she? or has she come to the Lord since your friend gave you the book?

Again thank-you for sharing another part of your testimony and brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Review of the Shack

[CENTER]The Shack: Father-Goddess Rising[/CENTER]

by John Lanagan
Free-lance writer

Many are crediting The Shack, the novel by William P. Young, with revolutionizing their faith. With themes of overcoming loss, working through anger, and restored relationship between man and God, Young's novel has excited many within the Body of Christ.

Young has appeared on CBN, and has garnered fans across the country. The Shack, continues to sell briskly. Yet, in the midst of such enthusiasm, does The Shack, glorify Jesus Christ--or contradict the Bible with a false image of the Lord our God?

The novel's main character, Mack Philips, has lost his daughter. She has been murdered, her bloodied dress found in an isolated shack. Four years later Mack receives an invitation from God to spend time with the Trinity in the very shack where the dress was found.

Nowhere in the Bible do Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simultaneously assume physical forms on earth. The Shack, however, portrays Jesus as a carpenter, the Holy Spirit as an Asian woman, and God the Father as a large black woman named ... Papa.

Much like AA's "higher power," The Shack's, deity comes to Mack in a form he is willing to accept. While the novel's feminization of the Lord is as trendy as it is Babylonian, the reader rapidly becomes used to descriptions of God as "she" and "her." At one point the book's version of Jesus praises the fictional Father-goddess, exclaiming, "Isn't she great?"

Malachi 3:6 states, "For I, the Lord, do not change." God is Spirit. In the entire Bible there is not one single reference to Father, Son, or Holy Spirit--or to any of His angels--as female. It is probably not wise, then, to go beyond what has been presented in Scripture.

Unfortunately, this seems a frequent occurrence in The Shack.The Father-goddess character tells Mack she appears in female form "to help keep you from falling back so easily into your religious conditioning." The author and his publishing team apparently assume Christians believe the Lord is an old white man with a beard, and have produced the book in part to help straighten us out.

There is an apparent dismissal of the importance of Scripture, which is reflected in slippery theology found throughout the novel. Young writes, "Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book. Especially an expensive one bound in leather with gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?" Guilt edges?

The Father-goddess of The Shack, it seems, is never about guilt or punishment. She benignly informs Mack, "I don't need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring people from the inside. It's not my purpose to punish it; it's my joy to cure it."

That sounds wonderful. And, yes, sin enslaves. However, the novel's deity contradicts the Bible. Jesus will "be dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction..." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

Although most sermons these days skirt the issue, Christians receive punishment during our time on earth. "For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives. It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?" (Hebrews 12:6-7)

But, this is not the message of the Father-goddess, simply because this is not the God of Scripture. An excellent writer, Young plays to emotion and touches on legitimate hurts and concerns. The author excels at imbuing his deity with attributes of love, forgiveness, and mercy, and this is what many people have responded to.

Increasingly in novels and movies the Lord is blithely used as one of the characters, and given words from the mouth of man. In this sense, the author of The Shack, is simply following the culture.

But something else is going on here.

Universal Reconciliation (UR) is the belief that Jesus' sacrifice allows Christians and non-Christians to spend eternity with God. In other words, in UR theology, everybody goes to heaven, not just followers of Jesus. Some in this camp even believe this includes the devil and his demons.

Publisher Wayne Jacobsen acknowledges that UR was included in earlier versions of The Shack. Jacobsen explains:

While some of that was in earlier versions because of the author's partiality at the time to some aspects of what people call UR, I made it clear at the outset that I didn't embrace UR and didn't want to be part of a project that promoted it.

So why did Jacobsen proceed to join forces with Young? He writes:

To me that was the beauty of the collaboration ... the author would say that some of that dialogue significantly affected his views. ... Holding him to the conclusions he may have embraced years earlier would be unfair to the ongoing process of God in his life and theology.

Perhaps, but this allegedly former theology even now seems to explain some of the content of the book.

The Bible clearly teaches the only way to God the Father is through Jesus, who loved us enough to die for us. Early in The Shack, Mack's daughter asks if the Great Spirit, the Native American god, is another name for the Father of Jesus. Mack tells her ... yes. He may as well have told her that Allah (or any other false patriarchal god) is also the Father of Jesus.

Of course, if everybody is going to heaven because of UR, what does it matter? God, Great Spirit, Allah, what's the difference?

His daughter asks the question because Mack tells the story of an Indian princess who willingly died so her people could be delivered of an illness. According to an Indian prophecy, it could be ended only through her sacrifice. The author states, "After praying and giving herself to the Great Spirit, she fulfilled the prophecy by jumping without hesitation to her death on the rocks below."

When his daughter calls the Great Spirit "mean" for making both Jesus and the princess die, Mack never clarifies that Jesus' Father is not the Great Spirit, or that God the Father has nothing to do with this pagan legend.

Does the author still have UR leanings? In his article, 'The Beauty of Ambiguity,' it is not his character Mack, but Young himself, who speaks to the Father-goddess. He denies being a universalist, and proclaims "faith in Jesus is the only way into your embrace."

She asks, "I take it that it wouldn't bother you if I decided to save every human being that ever lived?"

"Nope. I actually hope you've figured a way to do just that," he replies.

Wait a minute. If Young is still hoping God somehow ends up saving everybody, well, that is Universal Reconciliation. And hoping UR might happen directly contradicts Jesus Christ:

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Although Young then proceeds to voice acceptance of the reality of hell, he complains to his fictional Father-goddess:

...why couldn't you have made things clear? People go to the Bible and find all these ways to disagree with each other ... Everybody seems to want to acquire their little piece of doctrinal territory ... Some find support for Universal Reconciliation; some find proofs for eternal torment in hell...

Young continues with his list. Issues run the gamut from Calvinism to eschatology and, having inserted Universal Reconciliation into the mix, his fictional Father-goddess never corrects him. No surprise there. Is this perhaps an attempt to at least infer valid consideration of UR by including it amongst a hodge-podge of doctrinal concerns?

Incredibly, Young's Father-goddess clarifies (?) that she made much of the Bible ambiguous on purpose! That the author, or any person, would dare present doctrinal confusion as the intended plan of God--and via a fictional character at that--is chilling. But, that's the way it is these days.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3)

It's going to get worse. Goddess worship, false christs, and many other heresies will continue to rise. Movies, novels, and TV will become increasingly blasphemous.

Readers of this novel would do well to examine Biblical teaching about the Trinity, sin, repentance, communication with the dead, and much else.

Many in the Body of Christ have run to get a copy of The Shack. Far better, brothers and sisters, to just run.


Endnotes:
William P. Young, The Shack pg.88
Ibid. pg.93
Ibid. pg.66
Ibid. pg.120
Wayne Jacobsen, "Is The Shack Heresy?"
Ibid.
The Shack pg. 31
Ibid. pg. 28
Ibid. pg. 31
William P. Young, "The Beauty of Ambiguity"
Ibid.
Ibid.
Ibid.
 
Active
Hello Brother,
So, you were just testing the waters on the book & DVD. :smile:
I must apologize because it was my wrong assumption in reading the last line of your post, that had me believing you had not. My fault.
That being said, I'll add the review I spoke of after this post. You are welcome to consider it in view of having already read the book.

Still, at least this has given me the joy of hearing more of your life's testimony. Some of which you have previously posted on other threads. Still, thank-you for sharing it with me/us.

How God moves in our life amazes me as I hear/read testimonies of Brothers & Sisters who have come to the Lord. Most times in the hearing, we realize this is not something we'd want to go through ourselves, and so praise God even more. Finding each unique, to the person, as we are to God. So, I don't tire of hearing how God has touched each one of us. Just makes it all the more amazing for it.

However, I do take something from your writing and if wrong please let me know. Your wife is not a believer? Still seeking is she? or has she come to the Lord since your friend gave you the book?

Again thank-you for sharing another part of your testimony and brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Greeting brother

My wife now thinks she is saved but although I can see the Holy Spirit working on her heart, I feel it is in her mind at present. She feels Christianity is personal, it is but, she feels it is between her and God, no one else. I feel she got to the stage of I want to be forgiven, thank you, I want to know I will go to heaven, a mind fix.

But the spirit is working on her, I have been the stumbling block many times over the years, I have learn to give it to the Lord, and step back and watch the Spirit Work. That said, I do quote scripture and explain the meaning when I feel led to do so.

Thirty years is a long time to pray for a persons salvations, but thirty years is the blink of an eye to the Lord, I stand in faith throughout that period and I still believe she will be saved, God's speed brother.

She knows she cannot sit on the fence, there isn't one, she knows she can only come to the Father through Jesus, she knows he is the intercessor of all prayers, she need the cross and the blood of Christ, she needs to take to heart what Jesus did, what he went through for us, how vile sin is in God's eyes.

Thanks for asking and for your prayers my friend.

Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God our Father.

In Jesus Name. Amen
 
Active
Review of the Shack

[CENTER]The Shack: Father-Goddess Rising[/CENTER]

by John Lanagan
Free-lance writer

Many are crediting The Shack, the novel by William P. Young, with revolutionizing their faith. With themes of overcoming loss, working through anger, and restored relationship between man and God, Young's novel has excited many within the Body of Christ.

Young has appeared on CBN, and has garnered fans across the country. The Shack, continues to sell briskly. Yet, in the midst of such enthusiasm, does The Shack, glorify Jesus Christ--or contradict the Bible with a false image of the Lord our God?

The novel's main character, Mack Philips, has lost his daughter. She has been murdered, her bloodied dress found in an isolated shack. Four years later Mack receives an invitation from God to spend time with the Trinity in the very shack where the dress was found.

Nowhere in the Bible do Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simultaneously assume physical forms on earth. The Shack, however, portrays Jesus as a carpenter, the Holy Spirit as an Asian woman, and God the Father as a large black woman named ... Papa.

Much like AA's "higher power," The Shack's, deity comes to Mack in a form he is willing to accept. While the novel's feminization of the Lord is as trendy as it is Babylonian, the reader rapidly becomes used to descriptions of God as "she" and "her." At one point the book's version of Jesus praises the fictional Father-goddess, exclaiming, "Isn't she great?"

Malachi 3:6 states, "For I, the Lord, do not change." God is Spirit. In the entire Bible there is not one single reference to Father, Son, or Holy Spirit--or to any of His angels--as female. It is probably not wise, then, to go beyond what has been presented in Scripture.

Unfortunately, this seems a frequent occurrence in The Shack.The Father-goddess character tells Mack she appears in female form "to help keep you from falling back so easily into your religious conditioning." The author and his publishing team apparently assume Christians believe the Lord is an old white man with a beard, and have produced the book in part to help straighten us out.

There is an apparent dismissal of the importance of Scripture, which is reflected in slippery theology found throughout the novel. Young writes, "Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book. Especially an expensive one bound in leather with gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?" Guilt edges?

The Father-goddess of The Shack, it seems, is never about guilt or punishment. She benignly informs Mack, "I don't need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring people from the inside. It's not my purpose to punish it; it's my joy to cure it."

That sounds wonderful. And, yes, sin enslaves. However, the novel's deity contradicts the Bible. Jesus will "be dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction..." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

Although most sermons these days skirt the issue, Christians receive punishment during our time on earth. "For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives. It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?" (Hebrews 12:6-7)

But, this is not the message of the Father-goddess, simply because this is not the God of Scripture. An excellent writer, Young plays to emotion and touches on legitimate hurts and concerns. The author excels at imbuing his deity with attributes of love, forgiveness, and mercy, and this is what many people have responded to.

Increasingly in novels and movies the Lord is blithely used as one of the characters, and given words from the mouth of man. In this sense, the author of The Shack, is simply following the culture.

But something else is going on here.

Universal Reconciliation (UR) is the belief that Jesus' sacrifice allows Christians and non-Christians to spend eternity with God. In other words, in UR theology, everybody goes to heaven, not just followers of Jesus. Some in this camp even believe this includes the devil and his demons.

Publisher Wayne Jacobsen acknowledges that UR was included in earlier versions of The Shack. Jacobsen explains:

While some of that was in earlier versions because of the author's partiality at the time to some aspects of what people call UR, I made it clear at the outset that I didn't embrace UR and didn't want to be part of a project that promoted it.

So why did Jacobsen proceed to join forces with Young? He writes:

To me that was the beauty of the collaboration ... the author would say that some of that dialogue significantly affected his views. ... Holding him to the conclusions he may have embraced years earlier would be unfair to the ongoing process of God in his life and theology.

Perhaps, but this allegedly former theology even now seems to explain some of the content of the book.

The Bible clearly teaches the only way to God the Father is through Jesus, who loved us enough to die for us. Early in The Shack, Mack's daughter asks if the Great Spirit, the Native American god, is another name for the Father of Jesus. Mack tells her ... yes. He may as well have told her that Allah (or any other false patriarchal god) is also the Father of Jesus.

Of course, if everybody is going to heaven because of UR, what does it matter? God, Great Spirit, Allah, what's the difference?

His daughter asks the question because Mack tells the story of an Indian princess who willingly died so her people could be delivered of an illness. According to an Indian prophecy, it could be ended only through her sacrifice. The author states, "After praying and giving herself to the Great Spirit, she fulfilled the prophecy by jumping without hesitation to her death on the rocks below."

When his daughter calls the Great Spirit "mean" for making both Jesus and the princess die, Mack never clarifies that Jesus' Father is not the Great Spirit, or that God the Father has nothing to do with this pagan legend.

Does the author still have UR leanings? In his article, 'The Beauty of Ambiguity,' it is not his character Mack, but Young himself, who speaks to the Father-goddess. He denies being a universalist, and proclaims "faith in Jesus is the only way into your embrace."

She asks, "I take it that it wouldn't bother you if I decided to save every human being that ever lived?"

"Nope. I actually hope you've figured a way to do just that," he replies.

Wait a minute. If Young is still hoping God somehow ends up saving everybody, well, that is Universal Reconciliation. And hoping UR might happen directly contradicts Jesus Christ:

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Although Young then proceeds to voice acceptance of the reality of hell, he complains to his fictional Father-goddess:

...why couldn't you have made things clear? People go to the Bible and find all these ways to disagree with each other ... Everybody seems to want to acquire their little piece of doctrinal territory ... Some find support for Universal Reconciliation; some find proofs for eternal torment in hell...

Young continues with his list. Issues run the gamut from Calvinism to eschatology and, having inserted Universal Reconciliation into the mix, his fictional Father-goddess never corrects him. No surprise there. Is this perhaps an attempt to at least infer valid consideration of UR by including it amongst a hodge-podge of doctrinal concerns?

Incredibly, Young's Father-goddess clarifies (?) that she made much of the Bible ambiguous on purpose! That the author, or any person, would dare present doctrinal confusion as the intended plan of God--and via a fictional character at that--is chilling. But, that's the way it is these days.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3)

It's going to get worse. Goddess worship, false christs, and many other heresies will continue to rise. Movies, novels, and TV will become increasingly blasphemous.

Readers of this novel would do well to examine Biblical teaching about the Trinity, sin, repentance, communication with the dead, and much else.

Many in the Body of Christ have run to get a copy of The Shack. Far better, brothers and sisters, to just run.


Endnotes:
William P. Young, The Shack pg.88
Ibid. pg.93
Ibid. pg.66
Ibid. pg.120
Wayne Jacobsen, "Is The Shack Heresy?"
Ibid.
The Shack pg. 31
Ibid. pg. 28
Ibid. pg. 31
William P. Young, "The Beauty of Ambiguity"
Ibid.
Ibid.
Ibid.
Hi Nick

As stated earlier once I started reading the book I had my concerns, my friend said read to the end Paul, but God a black woman, nothing against coloured people, but God a black woman, read to the end Paul he told me. So putting the things that concerned me to one side for now, thinking ok we are all made in His image, I will continue.

Having read the book I still feel it is well put together story, but still have my concerns. I feel my friend was recommending it to help Sandra, some things may have but other things I am not sure. We have talked a little after watching the DVD, but my problem is I had to rely on what I read in the book a month or two before, I sat with her to watch it but didn't hear much of the story. I am severely deaf, not my classification. Nil on my right ear from measles at 5 years old, low in my left and reduced with age now averaging around 30Dba out of 120Dba. I am not good in company, I have the latest, strongest, most efficient hearing aid but you cannot do the impossible. In company one to one I can get by with no noise in the room, slightest noise I struggle. Yes I lip read but after 3 strokes that left me with double vision even that is not as good as it was. I struggle terribly in prayer, people look down, they talk quieter, I just get more and more frustrated adding to the tension inside.

Anyway back to the book and the film, my conclusion is, very well written, a good story line, the ending is well covered and can be unexpected to some. There are Biblical faults in there, sorry there are faults that are not Biblical. Sorry Lord.

I can see why it has sold so many books and dvd's in this day and age, that said, how many Christians are church goers, how many Christians go to the place of worship, called a church, every week for a top up of the spirit to see them to next week. How many places of worship liberalise scripture, even ones who say we follow the Gospels, there are more than 4 books in The Bible! There are so many kuriakon goers, but only a percentage are ekklesia believers in Christ Jesus.

So many only know scripture they hear on the Sunday, if they haven't forgotten die to a generalised sermon, taking a pattern from the OT, NT and Gospel reading rather than taking the Word and preaching it as it is meant. Some preachers do not preach you must be born again, John 3 sermons are talk about Nicodemus, they assume the kuriakon goers are saved because they were Christened as young babies. These people are easy pleased with books or films that appear to carry a message and don't now it is portrayed wrong here and there and a bit more.

Blessings
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greeting brother

My wife now thinks she is saved but although I can see the Holy Spirit working on her heart, I feel it is in her mind at present. She feels Christianity is personal, it is but, she feels it is between her and God, no one else. I feel she got to the stage of I want to be forgiven, thank you, I want to know I will go to heaven, a mind fix.

But the spirit is working on her, I have been the stumbling block many times over the years, I have learn to give it to the Lord, and step back and watch the Spirit Work. That said, I do quote scripture and explain the meaning when I feel led to do so.

Thirty years is a long time to pray for a persons salvations, but thirty years is the blink of an eye to the Lord, I stand in faith throughout that period and I still believe she will be saved, God's speed brother.

She knows she cannot sit on the fence, there isn't one, she knows she can only come to the Father through Jesus, she knows he is the intercessor of all prayers, she need the cross and the blood of Christ, she needs to take to heart what Jesus did, what he went through for us, how vile sin is in God's eyes.

Thanks for asking and for your prayers my friend.

Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God our Father.

In Jesus Name. Amen
Hello Brother,
Your wife sounds like mine in some respects. For years and till today. She continues to tell me that it's personal between her and God. The interesting part is that though she will say that, she also tells me that she won't ever deny Him. Her belief is that I do enough talking for the both of us. Which she might be right in! :smile: We'll be standing in line shopping, and I'll start talking to others, and attempt to turn it around to Jesus, while she quietly stands next to me. Initially years ago, when we had a discussion about it and I found out how she felt (personal); she'd wait but it would be with some exasperation. After a few years that showed her that that was me and that I wasn't going to stop. Being the Grand Lady that she is, now with patience and understanding that she has. She waits for me to be done letting a person know the Good News! Of course this is really by the prompting of the Holy Spirit mind you.

The Lord has opened my eyes to see her quietness about her faith and belief in Him, not as an impediment, but rather a strength. For when she sees a person that needs emotional help, consoling, etc. She's there. Not necessarily with Scripture, but with a real love and concern for the other person. Also, she not so shy that she doesn't speak of him while online. Doing a study online with other ladies from across the US. So, she does listen to me in patience when I expound upon something that I have found in Scripture or even here on TJ. At least for awhile.....at least until I start repeating myself to see if she go it (rolling eyes). The she'll close the conversation so she can get back to what she was doing :smile: Sometimes with a comment, but most times not. LOL

I don't see her below or above me in our walk. Just going at a different pace, that's all. She doesn't always come to church with me, but I think it has more to do with her disorder, than with not liking to go. In fact because of her disorder, she actually sits outside the sanctuary on a bench, which made me feel bad initially, but one she seems to really be enjoying. She gets to see people passing by that she won't have seen if she'd been sitting with me. Thankfully the church also has speakers in the ceiling so she can hear the service. So, I no longer feel bad, but actually interested in who she has talked to. Actually I come into the Sanctuary today, and said hello to a lady I really don't know, who was sitting in one of the pews, and she asked me if my wife was outside. When I said yes, she immediately got up and went out to her. Amazing!

So, different than how we doing things? Sure.
Doesn't read Scripture as much as we do? Sure
Won't talk openly about her faith with others? Sure
Does she enjoy women's groups? No

Quiet, but firm in what she believes, and that is Jesus Christ is her Lord & Savior.

Will your wife confirm her private faith with you in agreeing with the last sentence? If yes, then no problemo my Brother! Alleluia!
If no, then you are correct that she's not really sure what to believe, or what she believes she won't talk about it with you, because it's something that she thinks you won't accept.

Regardless, you continue to pray, and be patient with her. After all you two are really one!

With the Love of Christ Jesus. I will be praying for you both.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Moderator
Staff Member
These people are easy pleased with books or films that appear to carry a message and don't now it is portrayed wrong here and there and a bit more.
It really just confirms the age we live in, and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Dear brother. Don't be looking at ways to reach her. Your life, and how you live it will be the best example of God's Grace. Don't shy from having discussions, but don't make those discussions about trying to convince her, but rather to see if she has any insight. This way you're not critiquing, but rather seeking another perspective. Continue to pray and allow God to do the Heavy Lifting!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 
Active
Hello Brother,
Your wife sounds like mine in some respects. For years and till today. She continues to tell me that it's personal between her and God. The interesting part is that though she will say that, she also tells me that she won't ever deny Him. Her belief is that I do enough talking for the both of us. Which she might be right in! :smile: We'll be standing in line shopping, and I'll start talking to others, and attempt to turn it around to Jesus, while she quietly stands next to me. Initially years ago, when we had a discussion about it and I found out how she felt (personal); she'd wait but it would be with some exasperation. After a few years that showed her that that was me and that I wasn't going to stop. Being the Grand Lady that she is, now with patience and understanding that she has. She waits for me to be done letting a person know the Good News! Of course this is really by the prompting of the Holy Spirit mind you.

The Lord has opened my eyes to see her quietness about her faith and belief in Him, not as an impediment, but rather a strength. For when she sees a person that needs emotional help, consoling, etc. She's there. Not necessarily with Scripture, but with a real love and concern for the other person. Also, she not so shy that she doesn't speak of him while online. Doing a study online with other ladies from across the US. So, she does listen to me in patience when I expound upon something that I have found in Scripture or even here on TJ. At least for awhile.....at least until I start repeating myself to see if she go it (rolling eyes). The she'll close the conversation so she can get back to what she was doing :smile: Sometimes with a comment, but most times not. LOL

I don't see her below or above me in our walk. Just going at a different pace, that's all. She doesn't always come to church with me, but I think it has more to do with her disorder, than with not liking to go. In fact because of her disorder, she actually sits outside the sanctuary on a bench, which made me feel bad initially, but one she seems to really be enjoying. She gets to see people passing by that she won't have seen if she'd been sitting with me. Thankfully the church also has speakers in the ceiling so she can hear the service. So, I no longer feel bad, but actually interested in who she has talked to. Actually I come into the Sanctuary today, and said hello to a lady I really don't know, who was sitting in one of the pews, and she asked me if my wife was outside. When I said yes, she immediately got up and went out to her. Amazing!

So, different than how we doing things? Sure.
Doesn't read Scripture as much as we do? Sure
Won't talk openly about her faith with others? Sure
Does she enjoy women's groups? No

Quiet, but firm in what she believes, and that is Jesus Christ is her Lord & Savior.

Will your wife confirm her private faith with you in agreeing with the last sentence? If yes, then no problemo my Brother! Alleluia!
If no, then you are correct that she's not really sure what to believe, or what she believes she won't talk about it with you, because it's something that she thinks you won't accept.

Regardless, you continue to pray, and be patient with her. After all you two are really one!

With the Love of Christ Jesus. I will be praying for you both.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Hi Nick

I had to laugh reading your post.

Your wife sounds like mine... can you hear over the pond.

Joking aside, there are similarities, Sandra will always help others, but she has always been like that, She was the first person (on earth) to ever love me and show love to me. She has been the only person I trusted, and for more than twenty years there was so much she didn't know about me, there was so much locked away inside me.

One of the biggest problems I feel is the milk and meat situation, I feel, that she feels, I know so much and once I start I never shut up, so she avoids starting any conversation that could go from Genesis to Revelation, fall, curse and heaven.

She has softened with age and experience though, I bought her, her own Bible as a gift a few years back, she was surprised but also grateful, but she never reads it. I did manage to get her to read YouBible messages but they lasted just a short while. I prepared mini sermons as I felt led, she read some and said some were to long, they weren't but for her maybe they were. Small bites are more milky than a meaty meal.

I know over the years I have been the stumbling block, stopping the spirit from working in her life, in her heart, to which I repented each time. Two changes pulled her heart strings and made her think, the first being a five year period looking after her mum and dad, both had vascular dementia, a cocktail for sure when they both had it although both at different levels. My wife is an only one and was close to her dad, he died two years into the five year period, it hit her hard, but not as hard as his request to her which she took to hard, every hour and minute. Look after your mum won't you he said. The next three years was even harder for her and when her mum passed it was like a hammer hit her.

The second issue was selling out bungalow to move back 300 miles, everything possible went wrong and dragged out for months. Finally getting towards exchange of contracts the person we were buying from had a stroke and withdrew his bungalow from the market. We were lucky (not the word) that our buyer still wanted ours, within a reasonable time scale, but it meant another 300 miles journey with two days to find a home. Lord help. And he did. Every property we looked at had something wrong, had just accepted an offer etc, every property on our short list had been looked at, what were we to do. Then driving back to our daughters I felt a nudge form the Lord, lets go to the estate agent for that one we cannot afford, tell them we just lost one at this cost and ask if we can view it and see if the people will accept that amount. We saw the agent, he said he doubted they would come down more they had just recently reduced but he said I will contact them and come back to you.

We hadn't driven round the block when my wife's mobile rang. The agent had told the owners the situation on price and they agreed to let us look at the property. The bungalow was level access really suitable for me, front and rear, except for adaptations it seemed idea, Lord its over to you. We came away and told the agent we liked it and if they would accept the same value we were going to pay for the other we would proceed, we have a cash buyer and she was ready, They accepted. It was a long six weeks and towards the last two our buyer was getting fidgetty, but it all went through and we moved home June last year.

I was hoping Sandra would see it as a new start, she does, but even now, three years since her mum died she is grieving them both. All the issues brought her to prayer but, in the closet, it is private she says. She knows what is required for her salvation but won't talk about it. Again I do think it is because she feels when I start I never shut up, and she knows I know so much more maybe it is overpowering. I feel I have backed off and trust in God, the Holy Spirit will bring her through God's speed.

I have a dear brother of thirty years, he became a Christian around the same time as me, he to went though the spiritual battle and got close to thinking wrong thoughts. He told me some time ago his wife had accepted the Lord, to be honest Paul he said, she accepted him long before I realised, she was just so private with it all.

Prayer continues brother, and thank you for yours also, they are truly appreciated.

May the good Lord Bless you, guide you and protect you, you and all your household. In Jesus Name. Amen
 
Active
It really just confirms the age we live in, and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Dear brother. Don't be looking at ways to reach her. Your life, and how you live it will be the best example of God's Grace. Don't shy from having discussions, but don't make those discussions about trying to convince her, but rather to see if she has any insight. This way you're not critiquing, but rather seeking another perspective. Continue to pray and allow God to do the Heavy Lifting!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
I am with you every step of the way Nick.

If we want to see God carry out 'His Will' we give it to Him in Prayer, in Faith, and leave it with Him.

The Holy Spirit does the rest, it is amazing, He is amazing.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now am found.
Was blind but now I see.

Thanks be to God in Jesus Name Amen
 
Moderator
Staff Member
I know so much and once I start I never shut up, so she avoids starting any conversation that could go from Genesis to Revelation, fall, curse and heaven.
LOL! That's me.....my suggestion is to try and key on the non-verbals. Like: eyes glazing over, glancing away, frigidity in her seat, clearing of throat...alot, crossing of arms, face contortions, etc. Train yourself in observing these actions, so when you see them, you can wind it down, or shut down quickly my Brother! Sometimes, end it with..."Can I get you anything honey." :smile:

Don't worry about the milk & meat situation. You're the spiritual leader of the house and you two are one! Meaning that anything that comes into it, will be your responsibility, protector, etc. Believe it or not. She'll pick up on much in the little chats you have. Osmosis so to speak. Also, keep in mind that deep theological study is not really is something that everyone has the makeup for. Sometimes, posing questions as it pertains to women, or how men interact with women. Sadly, the world is trying to make everything gender neutral, which doesn't fall in line with how God made us. We complement each other, because we are different! So, remember that in your communications. Also, remember that she depends on you for the meat my hunter gatherer Brother!

On providing her a Bible. Did you try a Women's Study Bible? I say this, because their focus is a little different. The Word/Contents are the same, but with notes, summaries, etc. that provide women a slightly different perspective that they'll understand. Gosh, there are so many ones out there. Not just Study Bibles for Women, but also devotionals that are written by women, and for women. I did a quick search and found this link. I didn't peruse it completely, but it might give you/her some ideas.


I hope you realize that with your wife's loss of her mother, that the grieving in a way will never go away. It's been about 10 years since my wife's mom has passed and certain reminders will get her, dare I say, very emotional. I remember her mother, and love her dearly as well. My mother has been gone a number of years as well. I believe that we as men of God process these emotions differently, than women. Keep that in mind, and when you see the signs with her. Just give her love dear brother during these times.

May the good Lord Bless you, guide you and protect you, you and all your household. In Jesus Name. Amen
Back at you brother! Dear Father hear my prayer on behalf of my brother Paul, and one of your Children who loves you dearly. Guide him and his wife Sandra in your ways, bless his family as only you can, healing any hurts & illnesses, keeping them covered at all times. For I ask this as your Son said we could, and hold unto all the promises you said you would do. In the name of your Son, Jesus whose name You made above all names. Amen, Amen, Amen!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Active
LOL! That's me.....my suggestion is to try and key on the non-verbals. Like: eyes glazing over, glancing away, frigidity in her seat, clearing of throat...alot, crossing of arms, face contortions, etc. Train yourself in observing these actions, so when you see them, you can wind it down, or shut down quickly my Brother! Sometimes, end it with..."Can I get you anything honey." :smile:

Don't worry about the milk & meat situation. You're the spiritual leader of the house and you two are one! Meaning that anything that comes into it, will be your responsibility, protector, etc. Believe it or not. She'll pick up on much in the little chats you have. Osmosis so to speak. Also, keep in mind that deep theological study is not really is something that everyone has the makeup for. Sometimes, posing questions as it pertains to women, or how men interact with women. Sadly, the world is trying to make everything gender neutral, which doesn't fall in line with how God made us. We complement each other, because we are different! So, remember that in your communications. Also, remember that she depends on you for the meat my hunter gatherer Brother!

On providing her a Bible. Did you try a Women's Study Bible? I say this, because their focus is a little different. The Word/Contents are the same, but with notes, summaries, etc. that provide women a slightly different perspective that they'll understand. Gosh, there are so many ones out there. Not just Study Bibles for Women, but also devotionals that are written by women, and for women. I did a quick search and found this link. I didn't peruse it completely, but it might give you/her some ideas.


I hope you realize that with your wife's loss of her mother, that the grieving in a way will never go away. It's been about 10 years since my wife's mom has passed and certain reminders will get her, dare I say, very emotional. I remember her mother, and love her dearly as well. My mother has been gone a number of years as well. I believe that we as men of God process these emotions differently, than women. Keep that in mind, and when you see the signs with her. Just give her love dear brother during these times.



Back at you brother! Dear Father hear my prayer on behalf of my brother Paul, and one of your Children who loves you dearly. Guide him and his wife Sandra in your ways, bless his family as only you can, healing any hurts & illnesses, keeping them covered at all times. For I ask this as your Son said we could, and hold unto all the promises you said you would do. In the name of your Son, Jesus whose name You made above all names. Amen, Amen, Amen!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Hi Nick

My responsibility as spiritual head of the family has been with me for many years now, and I am still the only Christian, born again, in any of the family. I am the odd one, the strange one, but scripture confirms we are seen this way.

I do agree totally men think differently than women, I never showed feelings, I never showed emotion, but I have been changed by our Lord and the power of the Holy Spirit brother, men do cry, it is nothing to be ashamed of, it is a release valve God build into us. I have for many years, even the fierce spiritual warfare years, I learnt to love her through it, hug her daily, tell her I love her daily, women like to hear it, I think they need it.

This sounds hard coming from a born again believer, but you know some of my background, a small amount but enough. From 3 years old I hardened up, though I was weak, illness after illness, fear was there all the time, I can go back to 1954, age 4 and tell you nightmares I had that were like something from a sci fi movie, Spielberg was not about, TV's for those who had them were black and white, we just had radio. I have seen socks turn into scary monsters and so much more.

Due to the childhood issues, the mental and physical abuse, the sexual abuse by the vicar etc, I became hardened from the inside out, no one would hurt me again, I trusted no-one, but sadly I did end up hurt again and again. My mother walked out when I was almost 3, my dad's mother moved in, she was my nanny, but was a wicked woman, who dealt everything with scaremonger, I hated her. My dad was never home, one weekend in four and then he went out dancing and looking for another woman. He married another when I was ten and a half, I hated her, the nanny hated her, the devil's playground had begun, one set against another, it was a nightmare. My younger brother and myself were introduced to the church, to learn how to be good, a new vicar arrived, Mr Nice Guy, it was following this the sexual abuse happened. My brother and two other lads thought it was funny, I froze in fear, locked up inside, I thought I was the strange one.

I had no respect for my dad, he was never home, and in my teens he lost control. To me he was 'the old fella', that sounds terrible coming from me now. No one told me what to do, I was in charge of my life, no one will hurt me again. Sadly it was not so.

This now shows an extreme, my wife was the first person to love me but didn't know my past for over twenty years. I had no feelings for anyone, but me. So when it came to death of the old fella and his second wife, it meant nothing to me. But when I helped my wife and saw her feelings for her mum and dad, I felt for my wife, prayed her through it and still do.

I can go on, don't I, but I never used to, God takes us as we are, no matter what the issues and baggage, and makes us the person he wants us to be. Isn't He amazing brother.

Bless you
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Hello Brother Paul,
Our dear Heavenly Father is truly amazing. He takes the ugly, and broken. Makes new, and lovable.
He's cut the anchors of our past. So, we're not held to anything that was before, but flying free in His Loving Grace.
Thank-you for sharing another bit of your past, and truth be told I'm glad I didn't know you then. For we'd of been too similar for our lack of emotion.
But can say, that I'm truly blessed to know you in Christ Jesus now dear brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Brotherly Hug.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Active
Hello Brother Paul,
Our dear Heavenly Father is truly amazing. He takes the ugly, and broken. Makes new, and lovable.
He's cut the anchors of our past. So, we're not held to anything that was before, but flying free in His Loving Grace.
Thank-you for sharing another bit of your past, and truth be told I'm glad I didn't know you then. For we'd of been too similar for our lack of emotion.
But can say, that I'm truly blessed to know you in Christ Jesus now dear brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Brotherly Hug.
YBIC
Nick
<><
I am just an humble servant brother, far better than being a lost soul. But I am through Jesus an overcomer...


And by His strength alone Ill overcome
Oh, I could stop and count successes like diamonds in my hands
But those trophies could not equal to the grace by which I stand

[chorus]
In Christ alone
I place my trust
And find my glory in the power of the cross
In every victory
Let it be said of me
My source of strength
My source of hope
Is Christ alone

In Christ alone do I glory
For only by His grace I am redeemed
For only His tender mercy
Could reach beyond my weakness to my need
And now I seek no greater honor in just to know Him more
And to count my gains but losses to the glory of my Lord

[chorus]
In Christ alone
I place my trust
And find my glory in the power of the cross
In every victory
Let it be said of me
My source of strength
My source of hope
Is Christ alone

Amen, In Jesus Name Amen
 
Active
Thank you brother, lovely words

After watching the video I saw the following sang by a lady, same song, with lyrics, hoe you like it.


Bless you
 
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