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The Salvation of God

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The subject before us is elemental, basic, indispensable. All controversy concerning theological matters is a waste of time, if man, after a brief and troubled existence for a few fleeting years, goes down to "dusty death." If there be no deliverance from sin and its dread consequences, then all is vanity. To be in need of salvation implies that one is "lost." To be in
need of deliverance implies that one is in bondage or in danger. To discover that "no man can redeem" either himself or his brother, makes the question "What must I do to be saved?" the most imperative question mortal man can utter.

Israel, God's chosen people, are represented as being "lost sheep" (Matt. 10:6) and Christ said of Himself and of His mission. "The Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10).

Gentiles, too, are in the same category:
"If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost" (2 Cor. 4:3).

Paul says in Romans 8. 38, that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing. And it has been said, that those who profess to the Christian believer that no matter how much one will sin, no matter what sort of life you live you can just do what you like, and never lose your Salvation.
That of course has been settled. What we are going to find in this study, is that God in His matchless Wisdom has so arranged that that just cannot be. Oh yes, God knows all about that. You can’t tell God anything about the weakness of human nature. He knows. He has provided for it, in the believer. First there is one or two things we shall want to see. We read in the epistle to the Ephesians 4, v30, “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption”. In chapter one v12-14, we have this sealing again brought before us, “That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise”. So twice in Ephesians, we are assured that God has stamped His seal on this transaction. That is to say the work is finished, completed. He’s using a human Figure to bring before us the completeness of this glorious work. God has put His seal on it. “Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory”.

Now the point is, can the believer break this seal? Well, I say, that it is definitely written in the forth chapter that he can’t. How long is he sealed for? He is sealed until the day of redemption. And the day of redemption is the end, it s the day of glory. That is to say, all down through this present pilgrim pathway, the seal is there. It can’t be broken, praise God, until the day of redemption. So we have the work of Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit in all these different ways, guarding, strengthening, keeping, holding, sealing, all to bring this glorious fact home to us, that once in Christ, we are saved. We are safe.

Not only that, but Ephesians also brings before us this wonderful doctrine of identification with Christ. When we read of the one baptism in chapter four, we find it is not the ‘type’, not the picture that sets identification forth by immersion in water, but The Reality: The Baptism of the Spirit. Colossians says this baptism is the working of God. You are raised through the operation and the working of God. It’s not by what any man is doing by immersing them. This is God doing it. God the Holy Spirit uniting the believer with the Savior, in all these aspects: His death, His burial, His quickening, His resurrection, His present cession, at the right hand of God. And presently, His glorious manifestation.

Now God has done that, can that be broken by the believer? We are not given one hint that there is anything the believer can do to break that identification. There isn’t one that I know of. You see, it is God’s work. Suppose that He had allowed man to have a little hand in it, then I would agree that there is a possibility, but no, all you and I have to do is believe it. To act upon it, to live by faith is what He is asking us to do. It cannot be marred by any fault of the believer. Then see to, of course, in Ephesians one, of His Will and His choice, starting in v3 we read, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

According as he hath chosen us”. Now there is a certain number of people who have been chosen in Christ by the Father. Now, are some of those not going to get to glory? Well, we read of the church which is His body, “He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world”, before it ever existed, chosen in Christ. Some are not going to get there? Some are going to fail? Shouldn’t we have to say that at least part of God’s plan has been spoiled then? It must be so if this is he case; And yet, this surely cannot be. We find the work of the Son is so holy and so complete that He can place all His creation in its future place before it ever existed, and this calling is one “that we should be holy and without blame before him in love”. In chapter 5. 25, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy (here are the words of ch1) and without (blame) blemish” in love”.

Now that’s the same number that the Father chose. Is this a mutilated church that is going to be presented? Is it a partial church? With some fallen out? Surely not, and if God cannot accept that, then why should we listen to anyone telling us that we should accept that sort of work which God works as being somehow incompetent. This is the exact number chosen in past eternity, redeemed, made fit, by the work of Christ. This is the glorious will of the Father, and we will be presented a completed church. So, we want to bear that in mind. Let us turn now to Colossians.

Col 3. 1-3, “If ye then be risen with Christ”, <now this is not the conditional “if”, as pointed out before. This is not saying, well, if you are, because I am not quite sure, you might be like so and so. It’s SINCE you have been. You have been identified with Christ in His resurrection. This is part of this glorious identification Paul writes to us gentiles we read in Ephesians. Well now, if that’s so, then “ seek those things which are above (literally, those above things), where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection (mind) on the above things, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Well now, that is quite a statement. Where has God put this eternal life, which is His gift? Has he handed it over to the believers and said now there it is, that’s yours, now you take care of it, and make sure you don’t lose it? Of course He hasn’t, oh no, it is perfectly safe where no one can get at it. Why would He trust us to keep it safe, because that’s just what would happen, we would go and do something silly and lose it. But that shall not happen, God has hidden it, and He’s hidden it so effectively, He’s hidden it in Himself. Can anyone think of a safer place by which God could place the surety of a Salvation He had in His mind before the world even began? I can’t. He hasn’t hidden it in the heavens, or with angels, or even the greatest created being, He’s hidden it in Himself, with Christ.

Hidden until Christ is manifested, not handing it over for even a moment, and we read in v4, that “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory”.

And you will remember this, from Romans 11, that in all of God’s work, in all of God’s plans for the ages, His gift, His calling is without repentance. He’s not going to change His mind. Now, we’ve seen that Salvation is by His grace, not dependant upon anything of ourselves, that we cannot undo the finished work of Christ. The Scripture says God is not going to give it and then take it back again. He won’t do it with His earthly people Israel, in spite of all their sin and failure, we read “and so all Israel shall be saved…For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance”, (without change of mind, as that word is).

I think that when we keep all these things in front of our mind, we should have to find some very very clear Scripture to upset all this. But I know, I know, this is only one side of the story, right? Hebrews chapter 6 will always be brought up, so we’d better look at it then.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (that’s written AGE. And must refer to the Kingdom AGE. You see, all the miraculous gifts during the Acts period were simply foretastes of the coming Kingdom of Israel’s inheritance in the earth. AND every believer had tasted, they all got one gift or another by the HS, see Mark 16. 17, 18)

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now those are solemn words. God forbid that I should lessen them, or try to get out of it by saying he isn’t talking to saved people or that those were pretending to be saved but they’re not. That would never do, for v4 tells us they’ve been enlightened, and that we find the same word coming out in ch10:32, we find they’ve been “illuminated”:

“But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated,” these weren’t the fakers, these were the real ones. And fortunately, he’s given us an example of what he is trying to say, v7: “For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you”,
NOW I can’t think that you are like the ground that hast to be burnt. Look again. It does not say the ground is cursed, it says it is getting preciously near to it, it is what fails to come forth out of it whose end is to be burned. When the ground is burned, it’s still there afterwards isn’t it? Only those useless things which came out of it have no salvation, and that friend, are the works that are not fit, or meet as it were. Hebrews is not dealing with Salvation, for these are believers, this is not an evangelistic message, is one to the overcomers, and speaks of those things which come with Salvation, things that accompany Salvation:

“and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak”.

They are told they are running a race, 12:1 “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith”.

Well, we can see losing a race, losing the prize that comes with finishing the course, but Jesus is both the author and the finisher of Faith. Faith gets one across the end run of the course for the glory of the prize, but the Lord Jesus has taken care of the first things first, before the prize was ever in the mind of Abraham. So a prize can be lost, but that’s not the same as becoming unsaved.

And this is the point. When we find our friend pressed on being saved, and losing that glorious Salvation which is in perfect safe keeping in God with Christ, it is because they have confused Salvation with Reward.

Now what I have in Christ, and I know this because I am a believer, I have in Christ and that is SalvationI may disregard service and lose my Reward, for it is a personal choice we all meet, whether we deny this or not is up to us, but it is presented as fact when we rightly divide the word of truth.


I might not be a faithful servant, and I may not finish the race which is the requirement to receive the prize, but I have the Salvation of God.
 
Member
sparky said:
er...could you paraphrase that for me?Im not sure i have understood it properly?
there are 2 subjects in view

Salvation

Reward

these are not often seperate in most teachings, but Biblically, they are distinquished.


any questions based upon verse I am happy to respond, thnks
 
Member
Ok......are you saying you can never lose your salvation but you can lose your reward?(sorry it takes a while for me for things to sink in)
 
Member
sparky said:
Ok......are you saying you can never lose your salvation but you can lose your reward?(sorry it takes a while for me for things to sink in)

looks my reply was removed from the board.

oh well.
 
Member
I may disregard service and lose my Reward... I might not be a faithful servant, and I may not finish the race which is the requirement to receive the prize, but I have the Salvation of God.
This teaching could not be further from the TRUTH of the Word of God!
Do you really think God gave His own Son as a human sacrifice, and allowed Him to suffer untold agony so that He could offer us this gift of eternal life, only to allow us to treat it so recklessly? Man would be so thoughtlessly careless with such a gift, but God has something more to add to such piteous misrepresentation of His Word! Do you not understand the "reward" IS eternal life with His Son? I may not get an award, but I will have life? Do you seek to have life without the Son? I then ask, do you not love Him more than this?


Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God;

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Psa 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful;

Rev 2:10 :be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Rev 17:14 :and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
 
Member
MArk 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the world , the same shall be saved


Well this verse right here says that if you endure to the end not only have ran the race but stayed on course you will have salvation!
So this isn't saying well " follow God's will for awhile then do what you please"

This is saying stay constant. My question to you is if people who where once christians but denounce Christ are they still saved?

God must be respected at all times . Are we not told that acts of the flesh show that we are not covered in the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 
Member
Coconut,
so your one of those that think Salvation is dependent upon what you do huh? tell us, what can you do to maintain what is not even yours? what exaclty, please be specific, do you have to do in order for the finished work of Christ to be effective?
are you saying you can undo the finished work of Christ?,
or that there is no difference between salvation and reward,
salvation and prize?

1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

of course these running above, are believers, Paul is not talking to unbelievers, and salvation is acknowledged already, they looked forward to hearing more from Paul. they love the Lord.

Christ said:
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How are you going to do that? Does Christ expect you to become sinless? to have the same attributes of God? seems a bit unreasonable don't you think? lets look at something else too:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

why do we read that laying the same foundation over and over is not good, but that we should continue on unto perfection?

can you be perfect? Yes you can.

perfect, is the Greek word 'teleios'.

Biblically, 'teleios', (perfection) never means getting better and better and not ever falling short again:

the word 'perfect',
ALL 'TEL' words, even in English, are where we get our words like telescope=looking at something far away, or television=looking at something from far away, or telegram=receiving something from a long ways away.

so every time TEL words appear, such as perfect, we have in view something to be attained to that is afar off, and not something that means we are without fault.

Understanding the meaning of words, now we can understand how Christ would say be ye perfect, and the apostle would write, continue on unto perfection...
lets look at this word closer, it is important, and we can use Jesuslovesu's quote as well here:

The whole period covered by "the day of the Lord" is called the final meeting of the ages, or the (...) (sunteleia); but, the crisis in which it culminates is called the (...) (telos), the end of the age.
Both are rendered "end" in the New Testament, but the use of these two words must be carefully distinguished.
Sunteleia denotes a finishing or ending together, or in conjunction with other things. Consummation is perhaps the best English rendering. It implies that several things meet together, and reach their end during the same period; whereas telos is the point of time at the end of that period For example, in Matt. xxiv. 3 the disciples ask, "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the sunteleia of the age."
In His answer to this question the Lord speaks of the whole period, and covers the whole of the sunteleia. But three times He mentions the telos to say that "the telos is not yet" (verse 6); to give a promise to him "that shall endure unto the telos" (verse 13); to mark the crisis in verse 14, which comes immediately after the close of the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom." "Then shall the telos come." The sign of the telos is the setting up of "the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet." Thus the telos, and he who endures to this, the same shall be saved, and will be among the overcomers specially referred to in these seven Epistles; to whom these promises are made, and to whom they peculiarly refer.

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Paul says, it is by Chrsit's righteousness, not his, not yours, not mine, and if Paul cannot say he has already apprehended the prize, but presses on towards it, then how much more of example do we need? we witness Christ continued on unto the end, Paul says we must as well.

and for what?
'for the mark'.
what mark is that?
the mark which marks 'the prize'.
what prize is that?
'the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus'.

So Paul is saying there is a prize.

in v16, Paul then says he has attained. well, has he attained or not?
obviously, there are two considerations here/ and Paul uses the same technique God has always used, and naturally so, for it is God breathed words of God speaking to us throught the vessel Paul, the steward of God's word to us gentiles

Paul attained the Salvation of God
Paul presses for the mark of the high calling of God.

two things not one:

so I ask you again, can you undo the finished work of Christ?

Rom 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded,
that neither death,
nor life,
nor angels,
nor principalities,
nor powers,
nor things present,
nor things to come,
39 Nor height,
nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Last edited:
Member
sail2awe said:
Coconut,
so your one of those that think Salvation is dependent upon what you do huh? tell us, what can you do to maintain what is not even yours? what exaclty, please be specific, do you have to do in order for the finished work of Christ to be effective?
are you saying you can undo the finished work of Christ?,
or that there is no difference between salvation and reward,
salvation and prize?

1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

of course these running above, are believers, Paul is not talking to unbelievers, and salvation is acknowledged already, they looked forward to hearing more from Paul. they love the Lord.

Christ said:
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How are you going to do that? Does Christ expect you to become sinless? to have the same attributes of God? seems a bit unreasonable don't you think? lets look at something else too:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

why do we read that laying the same foundation over and over is not good, but that we should continue on unto perfection?

can you be perfect? Yes you can.

perfect, is the Greek word 'teleios'.

Biblically, 'teleios', (perfection) never means getting better and better and not ever falling short again:

the word 'perfect',
ALL 'TEL' words, even in English, are where we get our words like telescope=looking at something far away, or television=looking at something from far away, or telegram=receiving something from a long ways away.

so every time TEL words appear, such as perfect, we have in view something to be attained to that is afar off, and not something that means we are without fault.

Understanding the meaning of words, now we can understand how Christ would say be ye perfect, and the apostle would write, continue on unto perfection...
lets look at this word closer, it is important, and we can use Jesuslovesu's quote as well here:

The whole period covered by "the day of the Lord" is called the final meeting of the ages, or the (...) (sunteleia); but, the crisis in which it culminates is called the (...) (telos), the end of the age.
Both are rendered "end" in the New Testament, but the use of these two words must be carefully distinguished.
Sunteleia denotes a finishing or ending together, or in conjunction with other things. Consummation is perhaps the best English rendering. It implies that several things meet together, and reach their end during the same period; whereas telos is the point of time at the end of that period For example, in Matt. xxiv. 3 the disciples ask, "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the sunteleia of the age."
In His answer to this question the Lord speaks of the whole period, and covers the whole of the sunteleia. But three times He mentions the telos to say that "the telos is not yet" (verse 6); to give a promise to him "that shall endure unto the telos" (verse 13); to mark the crisis in verse 14, which comes immediately after the close of the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom." "Then shall the telos come." The sign of the telos is the setting up of "the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet." Thus the telos, and he who endures to this, the same shall be saved, and will be among the overcomers specially referred to in these seven Epistles; to whom these promises are made, and to whom they peculiarly refer.

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Paul says, it is by Chrsit's righteousness, not his, not yours, not mine, and if Paul cannot say he has already apprehended the prize, but presses on towards it, then how much more of example do we need? we witness Christ continued on unto the end, Paul says we must as well.

and for what?
'for the mark'.
what mark is that?
the mark which marks 'the prize'.
what prize is that?
'the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus'.

So Paul is saying there is a prize.

in v16, Paul then says he has attained. well, has he attained or not?
obviously, there are two considerations here/ and Paul uses the same technique God has always used, and naturally so, for it is God breathed words of God speaking to us throught the vessel Paul, the steward of God's word to us gentiles

Paul attained the Salvation of God
Paul presses for the mark of the high calling of God.

two things not one:

so I ask you again, can you undo the finished work of Christ?

Rom 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded,
that neither death,
nor life,
nor angels,
nor principalities,
nor powers,
nor things present,
nor things to come,
39 Nor height,
nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
EASY GOSPEL!!!!!!! For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son............., so I guess the whole world is going to be in Heaven, right? There is a difference between God's love and His promise of salvation, please don't twist scripture to justify your easy doctrine.
 
Member
The sluggard and and the Saviour have never walked hand in hand sail2awe, and His is not a pick and choose religion that teaching such as yours tries to make it into. And now (as Paul Harvey would say) for the rest of the story...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Promise of Salvation = free gift

Does this mean we should just sit around and do nothing? I think not, neither does GOD

We STILL need to be obedient and do our faithful works, faithfully. Faith by grace is what we're saved by - the blood of Christ making it ultimately possible, His own sacrifice.

We were born to do the will of GOD.
 

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