Join Us Today!

Join our non-denominational community with 10,000+ members and more than 50,000 monthly visitors today. Engage in bible discussions, studies, prayer support and friendly fellowship.

  1. Prayer Requests

    New Community Design

    Thinking about doing a refresh design for Talk Jesus community here, possibly using a different software platform as well to replace the current. It'll still remain a "forum" software nonetheless. Please vote at this poll and share your feedback.

    View Poll

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Featured Thread

    There is a lot of noise, lots of "religions" and beliefs out there to confuse anyone. But, Jesus is real. He loves you, He's ready to forgive you for all your sins and make your heart His dwelling place. Read about God's characteristics and attributes and get to know the real Jesus today.

    How do I accept Jesus as my Savior?
    How To Be Friends With God
    Why believe in Christianity?
    The Attributes of God

    View the Seeking Jesus forum

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Prayer Requests

    Facing Our Loneliness

    Everyone has lonely moments in life, but when loneliness begins to define our lives, it causes serious problems. We compromise our principles to try to fill the emotional emptiness. We choose behavior that harms our health, relationships, and finances. The consequences can be devastating. Learn how God desires to fulfill every longing you have for meaningful connection.

    View This Discussion

    Dismiss Notice

The Rapture (according to the Bible)

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by B-A-C, Jan 29, 2011.

Random Thread
  1. #1 B-A-C, Jan 29, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
    These are Bible verses about the rapture.

    1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
    This verse isn't talking about the rapture, but I include it here, because it assumes the rapture will have already taken place when these events occur.

    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    Notice it mentions twice here, the "dead" Christians will be raised before those who are living at the time. ("will not precede those" and "dead in Christ will rise first")
    Notice also, it says we will be caught up "into the air". Does that mean we don't go immediately to Heaven? More about that in a moment.

    1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
    1Th 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
    1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
    1Th 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
    1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

    2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
    2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
    2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
    2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

    See notes below on Antiochus Epiphanes from Daniel 12

    2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

    2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

    The Holy Spirit will be removed so that the "beast" can increase his power.

    2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

    The beast will be killed by the breath of Jesus

    2Th 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
    2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
    2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

    There will be no "double-minded, or "lukewarm" Christians. If you are "on the fence" God will go ahead and let the beast deceive you.

    2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

    Jesus himself said he was coming back, once he prepared a place for us.

    Joh 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
    Joh 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

    Joh 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
    Joh 14:29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

    Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
    Luk 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.

    Many false Christs will come near the "last days". But if you don't see Jesus "flashing across the sky" then it isn't him.

    Luk 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
    Luk 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
    Luk 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
    Luk 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

    Life will be going on "as usual" when Christ returns.

    Luk 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
    (Genesis 19)

    Luk 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
    Luk 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
    Luk 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.
    (Genesis 19:24-26)

    Luk 17:33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
    Luk 17:34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
    Luk 17:35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
    Luk 17:36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
    Luk 17:37 And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

    Obviously not everyone will be taken in the rapture, only the believers. Much of Luke 17 is also in Matt 24.

    Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming,
    and of the end of the age?
    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
    Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
    Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
    Mat 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
    Mat 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
    Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
    Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

    I don't know you, but I have to stop and think here.. have there been any "prophets" with new teachings in the last century or two? Of course there have!
    Their teachings and influence continue on today, the major doctrines aren't Bible based at all, yet many people believe them.

    Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
    Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
    Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

    The gospel will be preached to the whole world first, this hasn't happened yet. But in this age of television, the internet, cell phones, and global media, I think
    it could happen very very quickly.

    Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
    (Daniel 11:31 - see below)

    Mat 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
    Mat 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
    Mat 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
    (Luke 17:32, Genesis 19:26)

    Mat 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
    Mat 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
    Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

    This is one the verses that seem to indicate that the tribulation will not start until after the rapture.

    Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
    Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
    Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
    (2Cor 11:13-15)

    Mat 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
    Mat 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

    It is amazing to me, how many "new doctrines" come from "prophets" who claim to have met Jesus or 'his angel' in some clandestine meeting with only
    a very few people there. It's even more amazing that people believe these teachings.

    Mat 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    Mat 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
    Mat 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    Mat 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

    Some believe verse 29 to mean that the rapture will happen after the tribulation, however we see in the scriptures above that the first coming will be very quick, like a thief in the night, or
    "the twinkling of an eye" or like lightning. All things that last but an instant. Verse 30 seems to indicate that he will be coming in power and Glory this time. Also notice it doesn't specifically
    mention this on the earth, but "the elect from the four winds", and those who are "from one end of the sky to the other". As we saw in 1Thess 4 above, some of those in the rapture were taken up into the air to be with Jesus. Could this be the same people?

    Mat 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
    Mat 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
    Mat 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
    Mat 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
    Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

    Every now and then, on the news some famous person (often a televangelist) will claim to say they know when Jesus is coming back. But in verse 26 above, Jesus
    said even he doesn't know the exact time. I can recall at least 4 or 5 times in my life when a date was given, all of those dates have came and went, but of course,
    Jesus didn't come.

    Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
    Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
    Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

    I think there will be many people (possibly even some people who claimed to be Christians) who have heard about the rapture, and it will dawn on them, that it has
    already happened, and that they have been "left behind" (the name of a popular Christian fiction series that is about the rapture and tribulation). There is also a song
    by a Christian band (DC Talk) called "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" (You've Been Left Behind).

    Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
    Mat 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
    Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
    Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
    Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
    Mat 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
    Mat 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
    Mat 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
    Mat 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'

    Beware of those who say, he isn't coming for a long time. On one hand we have those who claim they know he is coming on such and such a date. On the other hand we
    have those who say he won't come back for hundreds of years yet. Either way is false security.

    Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
    Mat 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
    Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Many believe the story of Antiochus Epiphanes to be a pre-cursor to the beast. (Matt 24:15 gives reference to Daniel 11) Antiochus desecrated the temple of Solomon by sacrificing swine (considered an unclean animal at the time) to false Gods (some believe he even considered himself to be a God). The thought here is that this will be repeated by the anti-Christ.

    Dan 11:21 "In his place a despicable person will arise, on whom the honor of kingship has not been conferred, but he will come in a time of tranquility and seize the kingdom by intrigue.
    Dan 11:22 "The overflowing forces will be flooded away before him and shattered, and also the prince of the covenant.
    Dan 11:23 "After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.
    Dan 11:24 "In a time of tranquility he will enter the richest parts of the realm, and he will accomplish what his fathers never did, nor his ancestors; he will distribute plunder, booty and possessions among them, and he will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time.

    Dan 11:31 "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
    Dan 11:32 "By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.

    Rev 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

    The Bible does mention 3 people that were possibly "raptured" (that is.. taken up to Heaven without physical death) in previous times.

    Gen 5:24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
    Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

    2Ki 2:11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
    2Ki 2:12 Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.

    2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
    2Co 12:3 And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--
    2Co 12:4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

    Jesus himself ascended to Heaven, but this is different from a rapture.

    1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
    1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

    ..are you ready?
  2. so very helpful!

    This really helped me. I am a relatively new Christian and I had some questions about the end times according to the bible. It can be pretty difficult to understand, especially to those of us that are still very young in God. But this has definitely given me a better grasp on the whole situation... thanks!!
  3. BAC, great lay out of the scriptures!
    One tidbit I would like to add for Matt. 24:14; this may occur after the rapture during the Tribulation period. We have the 144,000 sealed Jews, at least 1 angel (Rev. 14:6), and the 2 Witnesses fulfilling that verse. So what the church doesn't get accomplished (even with all the technology); these 'heaven-backed' personale surely will.
  4. I am really struggling to see where the Bible teaches the rapture. The Matthew 24 passage is clearly not talking about rapture. It is judgment.

    For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.​

    The judgment will be as unexpected and devastating as a flash flood. And the passages from Luke keep the same theme.

    And the 1 Thessalonians 4 passage does not have rapture (us being carried to heaven) at its heart. It is Jesus returning to earth, the final resurrection and the inauguration of God's Kingdom.
  5. I believe Enoch and Elijah are in the place where God was before He created New Jerusalem, Because it is already defiled by the fallen angels who entered it!
    just a guess!
    No evil can enter New Jerusalem! the fallen angels nor mankind can go there
    Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    All flesh is full and dies because of it !We the Spirit within , once born -again have a clean spirit!
    Enoch and Elijah were in there natural bodies!

    People or I should say. The spirits of people. Are talking in heaven [New Jerusalem] Not sleep like we count sleep! but just not doing any work !
    Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

    1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
  6. #6 ctsracing, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
    Hekuran, I don't see how you are not seeing I Thess. as a 'rapture' passage. Sure, the word 'Rapture' is never used in the Bible (I believe it has latin roots to Greek - or something like that); but it is the word we use to label that event. I Thess. 4: 15-18 & I Corinth. 15: 51-53 are the 2 prominent rapture verses. I Thess 4 never goes any father with Jesus as "coming down from heaven" than the "clouds".

    If Jesus's destination was actually earth in that verse, then why would we 'jump up' to the sky, and then suddenly jump back down with Him to the ground again. That makes no sense!

    These 2 passages are explaining the details of how God is going to remove / evacuate the church. It is very stealth like: just Jesus & Michael (trumpet in hand) -very quick and effecient; almost like a military reconnisance mission to get trapped commrades out of harms way.
    (read my 2nd post in the thread 'Pre-scroll rapture')
  7. #7 spirit1st, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
    GOD saved Noah in a fleshly way! He saves us in a spiritual way!
    We must understand? The Great Tribulation is the WRATH of GOD ! He cannot bring HIS wrath on His own family and household! and the Body of Christ!
    What is the purpose of the GREAT TRIBULATION?

    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

    1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    If He would do this for a person who is not His child? How much for for his own family and household?

    Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

    1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
    Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    Oil is those BORN of GOD ! They have the oil [Holy spirit]
    This is the way ,I see it !
  8. Here is the 1 Corinthians passage

    I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”​

    Paul is talking about the last resurrection. Those that have died will be raised and those that are alive will be changed. I have read and re-read this, and I cannot see anything that would lead me to a doctrine of the rapture.

    The 1 Thessalonians passage needs a bit more careful treatment. I would be really happy to discuss it, but first I'd like to get 1 Corinthians straight. Am I missing something really obvious here?
  9. #9 ctsracing, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
    I'm confused, or just not following your line of thinking regarding last / final ressurection & the lack of rapture reference. Where are you placing these verses in the 'scheme of things'? You said "Those that have died will be raised and those that are alive will be changed." - that is the Rapture event! I have a feeling I'm not on the same page as you.

    I find that Paul is talking about the same subject in both passages, howbeit to 2 different cities: Corinth & Thessalonica.
    I Cor. - I Thess
    "We will not all sleep" - "We who are still alive"
    "For the trumpet will sound" - "and with the trumpet call of God"
    "the dead will be raised imperishable" - "and the dead in Christ will rise first"

    Just for clarifiction: the last trumpet in I Cor. 15:52 is not the 7th trumpet in Rev. (Paul wrote I Cor. in 55 AD - John wrote Rev. in 95 AD)

    According to these 2 passages,
    There is going to be a generation of ppl that will be excluded from the decree of Heb. 9:27 - "man is destined to die once". We know that Enoch & Elijah got this 'Bye' too.
    And then throw in verses like: Matt 24:40-44 / Rev 3:10 / II peter 2: 5-9 / II Thess. 2:1 / & other verses listed in BAC's OP
  10. OK. Well at least we know that we are both confusing each other.

    I will lay out as simply as I can what I think the Bible teaches.

    Reading Romans 8 - We, and the whole of creation are now in bondage to decay, but we look forward to the renewal of our bodies, as the whole of creation looks forward to its liberation.

    This will happen when Jesus Christ returns in glory. Then he will bring his heavenly rule to earth. The dead will rise to be judged. Those who are alive will be transformed "in a twinkling of the eye" be given a glorified body that is not subject to decay.

    Creation itself will be renewed, redeemed. There will be a new Jerusalem, from which the people of God will reign with Christ in the Kingdom of God.

    That is what I think the Bible teaches. I'm not really writing it down to try to convince, more so that we can get a bit of a grip on what each other believes.

    You comment on the Thessalonians passage going up into the sky and coming back down again making no sense. I understand it to be an image of a welcome. If news that a King, victorious from battle (or a long-awaited bridegroom is on his way) the natural thing would be for people to go out to form a reception party and ride in together. Paul's image is of us greeting Jesus in the sky, and returning victoriously with him.
  11. #11 ctsracing, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
    Edit: This is my 2nd attempt to post this. I had it all typed out earlier today, hit the 'post' button - *poof* :secret:

    Okayyyy:lightbulb! I see where your going with this. I see these verses as an actual event where you see them as symbolic doctrinal statements.

    Do you view the Scroll Judgements as actual events that are written in Rev.?

    My belief is this: The Scroll is the process by which God is going to 'dismantle' the earth (It is the Earth's Last Will & Testament - so to speak). God could dismantle the earth in a 'nano-second' if He so chose; so why is He chosing to take 3.5 yrs to do so. It is the longsuffering nature of our God that every opportunity is given for man's heart to turn back to Him. It is going to be the 'LAST CALL', so to speak for mankind. God is going to have 144,000, at least 1 angel (Rev. 14:6), and the 2 Witnesses shouting and proclaiming the Gospel message all during this Trib period.
    This is another reason I believe promotes the rapture event that the church is absent that God would need these 3 'agents' to carry on the great commision in our absence.
    Also in II Thess. 2: 7, it is the popular thought that the 'restrainer' is the Holy Spirit (this is an assumption due to process of elimination). If the Holy Spirit is removed; then we are removed also (II Cor. 1:22 / 5:5) since we are sealed & guaranteed.

    Soooo, when you combine all the verses in the OP, add in God's providence with Noah, Lot, Israel & the last 7 plagues (Exodus), etc., and then consider the character, personality, nature of God; that God does nothing in vain, not one to pull cute little stunts just for the fun of it, that there is a purpose / motive / reason in all that He does; I'm compelled that the Bible teaches a 'rapture' event.
  12. #12 Hekuran, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
    I do see the passages in 1 Thessalonians 4 and I Corinthians 15 as referring to actual events. As St Paul indicates, without this hope, our faith is nothing.

    The 1 Thessalonians image of us meeting the returning Jesus in the sky, I take as figurative language. I believe it is pointing to something true, but something that is so far beyond our experience and imagination that it is impossible to capture in words.
  13. 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    We MEET HIM in the Air! He does not come down upon the earth!

    I fully believe in the catching away [Rapture] It does not bother me, that others do not believe in it!

    We can Only live in the light we have!

    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    I know and am certain, God MY father will Never put HIS wrath on me!
    Our thinking will not give us the correct understanding! Only by the Spirit of Truth revealing these things , Can you understand correctly!

    It does not matter how many scriptures we show? They will not see with HIM , opening there eyes!

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Share This Page

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)