• Hi Guest!

    You may be aware that "big tech" has been aggressively censoring conservatives on Twitter, Facebook, Google, Instagram, YouTube and other social media platforms. This is tyrannical and suppressive towards Christians and conservatives.

    Please share Talk Jesus community on every platform you have to give conservatives an outlet and safe community to be apart of.

    Support This Community

    Thank You

  • Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 13,000 members today

    Register Log In

The prince of the power of the air: the spirit that works in the children of disobedience - Ephesians 2:2

Member
It's my assumption that most believe the "prince of the power of the air" is the 'Devil'. Ephesians 2:2 is deeply eye-opening as to what the Devil is. Not quite what christianity teaches.

Gives a different perspective of "air" to, if you think "meeting the Lord in the air" means up on the sky.
 
Loyal
Ephesians 2:2
(AMPC) In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].
(ASV) wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(BBE) In which you were living in the past, after the ways of this present world, doing the pleasure of the lord of the power of the air, the spirit who is now working in those who go against the purpose of God;
(CEV) You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God.
(CSB) in which you previously lived according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ESV) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
(GNB) At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
(Greek NT TR+) ενG1722 PREP αιςG3739 R-DPF ποτεG4218 PRT περιεπατησατεG4043 V-AAI-2P καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αιωναG165 N-ASM τουG3588 T-GSM κοσμουG2889 N-GSM τουτουG3778 D-GSM καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αρχονταG758 N-ASM τηςG3588 T-GSF εξουσιαςG1849 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSM αεροςG109 N-GSM τουG3588 T-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN τουG3588 T-GSN νυνG3568 ADV ενεργουντοςG1754 V-PAP-GSN ενG1722 PREP τοιςG3588 T-DPM υιοιςG5207 N-DPM τηςG3588 T-GSF απειθειαςG543 N-GSF
(GW) You followed the ways of this present world and its spiritual ruler. This ruler continues to work in people who refuse to obey God.
(HCSB) in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ISV) that you once practiced as you lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.
(KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(KJVA) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(MKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
(MSG) You let the world, which doesn't know the first thing about living, tell you how to live. You filled your lungs with polluted unbelief, and then exhaled disobedience.
(NAS77) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NASB) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NIrV) You used to live as sinners when you followed the ways of this world. You served the one who rules over the spiritual forces of evil. He is the spirit who is now at work in those who don't obey God.
(NIV) in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
(NKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(NLT) You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
(RV) wherein aforetime ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(TPT) It wasn’t that long ago that you lived in the religion, customs, and values of this world, obeying the dark ruler of the earthly realm who fills the atmosphere with his authority, and works diligently in the hearts of those who are disobedient to the truth of God.

2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

To me, what these verses are saying is... you're either following Jesus, or you're following Satan. You may not think you are, but you are.
The "god of this world" can be a confusing phrase.

The God of the Bible created this world and He has authority over it. However in this context, it means the unsaved people of this world.

A better translation would say "the god that the people of this world are following"....
Satan is still working in people, he technically isn't the God of this world, but he is still the "god" some people choose to follow, he still is at work all around us... in the air.
In peoples thoughts, in the media, society, culture, education, he has a hand in everything... even things we can't physically touch.
 
Member
Ephesians 2:2
(AMPC) In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].
(ASV) wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(BBE) In which you were living in the past, after the ways of this present world, doing the pleasure of the lord of the power of the air, the spirit who is now working in those who go against the purpose of God;
(CEV) You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God.
(CSB) in which you previously lived according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ESV) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
(GNB) At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
(Greek NT TR+) ενG1722 PREP αιςG3739 R-DPF ποτεG4218 PRT περιεπατησατεG4043 V-AAI-2P καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αιωναG165 N-ASM τουG3588 T-GSM κοσμουG2889 N-GSM τουτουG3778 D-GSM καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αρχονταG758 N-ASM τηςG3588 T-GSF εξουσιαςG1849 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSM αεροςG109 N-GSM τουG3588 T-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN τουG3588 T-GSN νυνG3568 ADV ενεργουντοςG1754 V-PAP-GSN ενG1722 PREP τοιςG3588 T-DPM υιοιςG5207 N-DPM τηςG3588 T-GSF απειθειαςG543 N-GSF
(GW) You followed the ways of this present world and its spiritual ruler. This ruler continues to work in people who refuse to obey God.
(HCSB) in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ISV) that you once practiced as you lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.
(KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(KJVA) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(MKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
(MSG) You let the world, which doesn't know the first thing about living, tell you how to live. You filled your lungs with polluted unbelief, and then exhaled disobedience.
(NAS77) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NASB) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NIrV) You used to live as sinners when you followed the ways of this world. You served the one who rules over the spiritual forces of evil. He is the spirit who is now at work in those who don't obey God.
(NIV) in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
(NKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(NLT) You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
(RV) wherein aforetime ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(TPT) It wasn’t that long ago that you lived in the religion, customs, and values of this world, obeying the dark ruler of the earthly realm who fills the atmosphere with his authority, and works diligently in the hearts of those who are disobedient to the truth of God.

2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

To me, what these verses are saying is... you're either following Jesus, or you're following Satan. You may not think you are, but you are.
The "god of this world" can be a confusing phrase.

The God of the Bible created this world and He has authority over it. However in this context, it means the unsaved people of this world.

A better translation would say "the god that the people of this world are following"....
Satan is still working in people, he technically isn't the God of this world, but he is still the "god" some people choose to follow, he still is at work all around us... in the air.
In peoples thoughts, in the media, society, culture, education, he has a hand in everything... even things we can't physically touch.
In other words, the God of this World works IN the children of disobedience, including christians.
 
Loyal
In other words, the God of this World works IN the children of disobedience, including christians.
Yes, but the difference being, in non-believers, he doesn't ask permission, they are his.
In believers Satan can only do what we let him do. (some believers let him do way too much).
 
Moderator
Staff Member
It's my assumption that most believe the "prince of the power of the air" is the 'Devil'. Ephesians 2:2 is deeply eye-opening as to what the Devil is. Not quite what christianity teaches.

Gives a different perspective of "air" to, if you think "meeting the Lord in the air" means up on the sky.
In other words, the God of this World works IN the children of disobedience, including christians.
Dear Amethyst,
First welcome to this online Community of Christian Believers called Talk Jesus.
I hope you fill find fellowship, and growth in God's Word in this Community.

How would you say who the Devil is?

Also, if what you say that the Devil also works "IN" the disobedience, including Christians, I'd have to disagree. If you notice in the different translations provided by Brother BAC of Ephesians 2:2 KJV, you will notice that Paul clearly is making a separation between the "children of disobedience" and "Christians" or as Paul says, " Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world...", how we who are Christians used to be. He's showing a past of who we were in the Devil, to a present in Christ Jesus, as Christians/Believers.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Amethyst,
First welcome to this online Community of Christian Believers called Talk Jesus.
I hope you fill find fellowship, and growth in God's Word in this Community.

How would you say who the Devil is?

Also, if what you say that the Devil also works "IN" the disobedience, including Christians, I'd have to disagree. If you notice in the different translations provided by Brother BAC of Ephesians 2:2 KJV, you will notice that Paul clearly is making a separation between the "children of disobedience" and "Christians" or as Paul says, " Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world...", how we who are Christians used to be. He's showing a past of who we were in the Devil, to a present in Christ Jesus, as Christians/Believers.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
Most christians still walk according the course of this world, with "their mind on earthly things" - they still have to keep up with current events as do all in the adamic nature. So as you continue on to Ephesians 4, this confirms christians can easily still be "children of disobedience" if not "renewed in the spirit of their mind"


22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

If christians are not putting on the new man, they give place to the DEVIL - "the spirit that works in them".
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Most christians still walk according the course of this world, with "their mind on earthly things" - they still have to keep up with current events as do all in the adamic nature. So as you continue on to Ephesians 4, this confirms christians can easily still be "children of disobedience" if not "renewed in the spirit of their mind"


22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

If christians are not putting on the new man, they give place to the DEVIL - "the spirit that works in them".
Dear Amethyst,
Clearly there is a difference between being influenced, and, as you have emphasized with the belief that the devil is "IN" Christians. Otherwise, you'd have to believe that both the Holy Spirit, and the Devil reside in the believer at the same time. You'd also have to believe that the Devil is omnipresent as God is. There is nothing that I know of in Scripture that provides for the Devil to have this ability which belongs to God alone.

However, I won't disagree with you that Christians, can turn away from God, voluntarily, and so the Devil's efforts in attempting to influence Believers to this end. There are some who believe that Christians that are saved, are always saved. IMHO, I believe this to not be true. So, what you are saying in a way is correct, but would they still be Christians if they turn away from God's Saving Grace?

I'm still curious about what I asked you in my last post " How would you say who the Devil is? ".
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Amethyst,
Clearly there is a difference between being influenced, and, as you have emphasized with the belief that the devil is "IN" Christians. Otherwise, you'd have to believe that both the Holy Spirit, and the Devil reside in the believer at the same time. You'd also have to believe that the Devil is omnipresent as God is. There is nothing that I know of in Scripture that provides for the Devil to have this ability which belongs to God alone.

However, I won't disagree with you that Christians, can turn away from God, voluntarily, and so the Devil's efforts in attempting to influence Believers to this end. There are some who believe that Christians that are saved, are always saved. IMHO, I believe this to not be true. So, what you are saying in a way is correct, but would they still be Christians if they turn away from God's Saving Grace?

I'm still curious about what I asked you in my last post " How would you say who the Devil is? ".
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><s
The Devil is simply a personification of the Adamic Nature - The Man of Lawlessness that sits in your temple - The Old Man that is to be put off. Jesus destroyed him in his own being on the cross as you read Hebrews 2:14.

Which is why Jesus was The Last Adam, and now the Quickening Spirit. - I Corinthians 15:45

If the Devil is a singular entity floating around as most christians believe, why talk about him since Jesus destroyed him on the cross? You'd have to be in complete denial of what Hebrews 2:14 states.

Those that try to teach on the latin name Lucifer, always avoid Isaiah 14:16 - "Is this the man that cause the earth to tremble?" - that man was Adam.
 
Last edited:
Moderator
Staff Member
The Devil is simply a personification of the Adamic Nature - The Man of Lawlessness that sits in your temple - The Old Man that is to be put off. Jesus destroyed him in his own being on the cross as you read Hebrews 2:14.

Which is why Jesus was The Last Adam, and now the Quickening Spirit. - I Corinthians 15:45

If the Devil is a singular entity floating around as most christians believe, why talk about him since Jesus destroyed him on the cross? You'd have to be in complete denial of what Hebrews 2:14 states.

Those that try to teach on the latin name Lucifer, always avoid Isaiah 14:16 - "Is this the man that cause the earth to tremble?" - that man was Adam.
Dear Amethyst,
Aaah. Now I see where you are coming from, and its not as I first thought it might be. Which I believed was identifying the "devil nature" of man, separately from the Created being called Lucifer, or since the fall, Satan.
So, you deny the Created being and have placed him solely as the Adamic Nature of man, by holding to Isaiah 14:16? So, everywhere else Lucifer, and Satan are mentioned it is not as a Created being, but somehow the Adamic Nature from the 1st Adam, even after his death?

I can't help but disagree with you on this if this is how you believe it to be. I've found that context is important, and that one can be led astray very easily when placing one Scripture verse, as the driving force for other verses, or even making similarly used words to mean or hold equal weight though the context may be different in its usage. Which is the only way you can come to the position you appear to hold. At least if you insist to combine the words Devil, Lucifer, Satan as having a sole meaning, because clearly they do not.

Even reading in the Interlinear Hebrews 2:14 you will find that it is "death" held by the Devil that is being destroyed and not the Created being called Satan or in this case called the Devil. So, it is not the Devil that was destroyed on the Cross, by our Lord Jesus' death, but rather death itself was conquered and that by Our Lord's Resurrection! Alleluia!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Member
Dear Amethyst,
Aaah. Now I see where you are coming from, and its not as I first thought it might be. Which I believed was identifying the "devil nature" of man, separately from the Created being called Lucifer, or since the fall, Satan.
So, you deny the Created being and have placed him solely as the Adamic Nature of man, by holding to Isaiah 14:16? So, everywhere else Lucifer, and Satan are mentioned it is not as a Created being, but somehow the Adamic Nature from the 1st Adam, even after his death?

I can't help but disagree with you on this if this is how you believe it to be. I've found that context is important, and that one can be led astray very easily when placing one Scripture verse, as the driving force for other verses, or even making similarly used words to mean or hold equal weight though the context may be different in its usage. Which is the only way you can come to the position you appear to hold. At least if you insist to combine the words Devil, Lucifer, Satan as having a sole meaning, because clearly they do not.

Even reading in the Interlinear Hebrews 2:14 you will find that it is "death" held by the Devil that is being destroyedand not the Created being called Satan or in this case called the Devil. So, it is not the Devil that was destroyed on the Cross, by our Lord Jesus' death, but rather death itself was conquered and that by Our Lord's Resurrection! Alleluia!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

I enjoyed your multiple uses of the term 'Created Being' in your personal synopsis of 'Lucifer', a latin term not used in the original text, but so ingrained in the brains of the masses, they dare not question anything they've heard.

Is there any living thing God has created that is not a 'Created Being'? Are you a Created Being?

You mentioned context is important, implying I'm not aware of that, then proceeded to offer no context yourself.
I understand your consternation, just Ephesians 2:2 is damning to the fairy-tale version of THE DEVIL.

You also said, "so everywhere else Lucifer is mentioned" - Uh, 'Lucifer' is only mentioned in Isaiah 14:12.

Here are some other thoughts on your traditional view of Lucifer -

Revelation 12:9 and Revelation 20:2 state the Dragon IS that Old Serpent, the Devel and Satan.

Just one question for you right now -
Do you believe the Old Serpent in Genesis 3 is a literal snake?
If so, where is he slithering about these days?

For this comical reason, religion has to fabricate, as they always do, and tell you Satan came in the FORM OF A SERPENT.
The Bible does not say that.

I just stick with what the clarity of Ephesians 2:2 states.

Your commentary on Hebrews 2:14 was askew too, you reframed it and stated "it is "death" held by the Devil that is being destroyed
Hebrew 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

If you hold the old catholic version of THE DEVIL, then you have to be in absolute denial of what Heb 2:14 states -
THAT THROUGH DEATH HE MIGHT DESTROY HIM.
 
Last edited:
Active
It's my assumption that most believe the "prince of the power of the air" is the 'Devil'. Ephesians 2:2 is deeply eye-opening as to what the Devil is. Not quite what christianity teaches.

Gives a different perspective of "air" to, if you think "meeting the Lord in the air" means up on the sky.
'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'

(Eph 2:1-3)

Hello @Amethyst,

The term, 'the prince of the power of the air' does refer to the Devil. He is the angelic ruler of the power of the air.

* The word, 'prince' translated from the Hebrew word, 'archon', is from the Latin word, 'princeps', which means 'taking the first place': Only in a secondary sense is it used of the son of a sovereign.

* The Greek word 'archon' is used of 'the rulers of the Jews' (Matthew 9:18); 'the prince of the devils' (Matthew 9:34); 'the prince of the Gentiles' (Matthew 20:25). In John's gospel, 'the prince of this world' is found three times, and 'the prince of the power of the air' is not removed from 'this world' as a reference to Ephesians 6:12 will show:-

'Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
.. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
.... but against principalities,
...... against powers,
........ against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
.......... against spiritual wickedness in high places.'

(Eph. 6:11-12)

* The word translated 'power' in Ephesians 2:2 is Gr. Exousia, which is used in Ephesians 1:21,

' ... Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion,
and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:... '

(Eph 1:21)

* This prince is said to be 'the prince (or authority) of the air'. Why the air? In ancient times, 'the air' was perceived to be the lower, and 'the ether' the upper portion of the atmosphere, and the air often became synonymous with mist, gloom and darkness, and where the fowl of the air fly.

* The prince exercises his authority in the air, and his spiritual servants are called, 'the rulers of the darkness of this world'. He is also called, 'the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience'. (ie., unbelief). This unbelief is 'an unwillingness to be persuaded', or 'refusal to believe'. or, 'to hear aside, amiss'. Those who are energized by the prince of the power of the air must therefore have had some relation in the first place with faith, and by their reaction, and refusal, laid themselves open to his wiles and deceits. 2 Thessalonians has a terrible thing to say about those who 'received not the love of the truth'; they became the subject of a strong delusion, and believe 'the lie', and are called 'children of disobedience'.

* There is much more that could be said about this, but it will make this entry far too long.

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'

(Eph 2:1-3)

Hello @Amethyst,

The term, 'the prince of the power of the air' does refer to the Devil. He is the angelic ruler of the power of the air.

* The word, 'prince' translated from the Hebrew word, 'archon', is from the Latin word, 'princeps', which means 'taking the first place': Only in a secondary sense is it used of the son of a sovereign.

* The Greek word 'archon' is used of 'the rulers of the Jews' (Matthew 9:18); 'the prince of the devils' (Matthew 9:34); 'the prince of the Gentiles' (Matthew 20:25). In John's gospel, 'the prince of this world' is found three times, and 'the prince of the power of the air' is not removed from 'this world' as a reference to Ephesians 6:12 will show:-

'Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
.. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
.... but against principalities,
...... against powers,
........ against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
.......... against spiritual wickedness in high places.'

(Eph. 6:11-12)

* The word translated 'power' in Ephesians 2:2 is Gr. Exousia, which is used in Ephesians 1:21,

' ... Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion,
and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:... '

(Eph 1:21)

* This prince is said to be 'the prince (or authority) of the air'. Why the air? In ancient times, 'the air' was perceived to be the lower, and 'the ether' the upper portion of the atmosphere, and the air often became synonymous with mist, gloom and darkness, and where the fowl of the air fly.

* The prince exercises his authority in the air, and his spiritual servants are called, 'the rulers of the darkness of this world'. He is also called, 'the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience'. (ie., unbelief). This unbelief is 'an unwillingness to be persuaded', or 'refusal to believe'. or, 'to hear aside, amiss'. Those who are energized by the prince of the power of the air must therefore have had some relation in the first place with faith, and by their reaction, and refusal, laid themselves open to his wiles and deceits. 2 Thessalonians has a terrible thing to say about those who 'received not the love of the truth'; they became the subject of a strong delusion, and believe 'the lie', and are called 'children of disobedience'.

* There is much more that could be said about this, but it will make this entry far too long.

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
Yes, most think "the air" means the sky.
I don't.
 
Active
For your own purposes, you left out "the spirit that WORKS IN the children of disobedience"
Hello @Amethyst,

Thank you for responding, but looking at my post again, I have not left those words out.. ' the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:' , it is in the quotation heading the post. (Though I appreciate any correction on your part)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
Hello @Amethyst,

Thank you for responding, but looking at my post again, I have not left those words out.. ' the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:' , it is in the quotation heading the post.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Meaning, you left out any elaboration of it.
The Devil always denies who he is, and works hard at it.
 
Active
Meaning, you left out any elaboration of it.
The Devil always denies who he is, and works hard at it.
Hello again, @Amethyst,

No, I did not elaborate on it, you are right, although I did touch on it a little.

The prince of the power of the air, is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience or unbelief, who are by nature the 'children of wrath'. The words, 'children of disobedience' is a well known Hebraism, and should read, 'sons of disobedience'. This figure is found at the close of a list of immoralities in Ephesians 5:6 where again the word 'wrath' is used:-

'Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient:
but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words:
for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.'

(Eph 5:1-6)

* The wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (or the unbelieving).
* Ephesians 2:2-3, tells us that before being quickened by God, we were by nature the children of wrath too, as a result of Adam's fall, but we have been quickened together with Christ.

* It is possible for a believer to walk according to the flesh, and in so doing fall prey to Satan's wiles. This is why we are told to walk according to the spirit, and then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
Hello again, @Amethyst,

No, I did not elaborate on it, you are right, although I did touch on it a little.

The prince of the power of the air, is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience or unbelief, who are by nature the 'children of wrath'. The words, 'children of disobedience' is a well known Hebraism, and should read, 'sons of disobedience'. This figure is found at the close of a list of immoralities in Ephesians 5:6 where again the word 'wrath' is used:-

'Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient:
but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words:
for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.'

(Eph 5:1-6)

* The wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (or the unbelieving).
* Ephesians 2:2-3, tells us that before being quickened by God, we were by nature the children of wrath too, as a result of Adam's fall, but we have been quickened together with Christ.

* It is possible for a believer to walk according to the flesh, and in so doing fall prey to Satan's wiles. This is why we are told to walk according to the spirit, and then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
As stated earlier, The Devil is very simply a personification of the adamic nature of flesh and blood -

Heb 2:14 make it real clear, so clear, it staggers the religious imagination:
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same
;
THAT
through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

And more esoterically, this is why Jesus was called, THE LAST ADAM.

"In ADAM, ALL DIE, so also in Christ, shall all be made alive" - I Cor 15:22

Death is from Adam - THE DEVIL - The Adamic Nature = The Old Serpent=The Old Man=The Man of Lawlessnes = The Antichrist.

Real simple, once you unhaze and tweak your thinking.
 
Active
As stated earlier, The Devil is very simply a personification of the adamic nature of flesh and blood -

Heb 2:14 make it real clear, so clear, it staggers the religious imagination:
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same
;
THAT
through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

And more esoterically, this is why Jesus was called, THE LAST ADAM.

"In ADAM, ALL DIE, so also in Christ, shall all be made alive" - I Cor 15:22

Death is from Adam - THE DEVIL - The Adamic Nature = The Old Serpent=The Old Man=The Man of Lawlessnes = The Antichrist.

Real simple, once you unhaze and tweak your thinking.
Hello @Amethyst,

Is this your own thinking, or is it shared by others? For I am afraid it does not agree with the testimony of Scripture.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
Hello @Amethyst,

Is this your own thinking, or is it shared by others? For I am afraid it does not agree with the testimony of Scripture.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
To criticize presupposes the alternative.
There is all the scripture you need, what you're afraid of, is that it does not coincide with your tradition.
Feel free to expound, try using scripture.
 
Active
To criticize presupposes the alternative.
There is all the scripture you need, what you're afraid of, is that it does not coincide with your tradition.
Feel free to expound, try using scripture.
Hello @Amethyst,

No personal criticism intended, simply a question asked.

With respect, you do not know me or what I believe, for this is the first time we have spoken. Please do not make assumptions. I do not want to engage with you on this subject, so I will not expound as you say. I know what the Scriptures say, and believe what is written, and what I do not know or understand I leave with the Lord.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head
Chris
 
Member
Ephesians 2:2
(AMPC) In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].
(ASV) wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(BBE) In which you were living in the past, after the ways of this present world, doing the pleasure of the lord of the power of the air, the spirit who is now working in those who go against the purpose of God;
(CEV) You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God.
(CSB) in which you previously lived according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ESV) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
(GNB) At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
(Greek NT TR+) ενG1722 PREP αιςG3739 R-DPF ποτεG4218 PRT περιεπατησατεG4043 V-AAI-2P καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αιωναG165 N-ASM τουG3588 T-GSM κοσμουG2889 N-GSM τουτουG3778 D-GSM καταG2596 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM αρχονταG758 N-ASM τηςG3588 T-GSF εξουσιαςG1849 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSM αεροςG109 N-GSM τουG3588 T-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN τουG3588 T-GSN νυνG3568 ADV ενεργουντοςG1754 V-PAP-GSN ενG1722 PREP τοιςG3588 T-DPM υιοιςG5207 N-DPM τηςG3588 T-GSF απειθειαςG543 N-GSF
(GW) You followed the ways of this present world and its spiritual ruler. This ruler continues to work in people who refuse to obey God.
(HCSB) in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
(ISV) that you once practiced as you lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.
(KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(KJVA) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(MKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
(MSG) You let the world, which doesn't know the first thing about living, tell you how to live. You filled your lungs with polluted unbelief, and then exhaled disobedience.
(NAS77) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NASB) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(NIrV) You used to live as sinners when you followed the ways of this world. You served the one who rules over the spiritual forces of evil. He is the spirit who is now at work in those who don't obey God.
(NIV) in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
(NKJV) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(NLT) You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
(RV) wherein aforetime ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
(TPT) It wasn’t that long ago that you lived in the religion, customs, and values of this world, obeying the dark ruler of the earthly realm who fills the atmosphere with his authority, and works diligently in the hearts of those who are disobedient to the truth of God.

2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

To me, what these verses are saying is... you're either following Jesus, or you're following Satan. You may not think you are, but you are.
The "god of this world" can be a confusing phrase.

The God of the Bible created this world and He has authority over it. However in this context, it means the unsaved people of this world.

A better translation would say "the god that the people of this world are following"....
Satan is still working in people, he technically isn't the God of this world, but he is still the "god" some people choose to follow, he still is at work all around us... in the air.
In peoples thoughts, in the media, society, culture, education, he has a hand in everything... even things we can't physically touch.
Hello @Amethyst,

No personal criticism intended, simply a question asked.

With respect, you do not know me or what I believe, for this is the first time we have spoken. Please do not make assumptions. I do not want to engage with you on this subject, so I will not expound as you say. I know what the Scriptures say, and believe what is written, and what I do not know or understand I leave with the Lord.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head
Chris
I know exactly how you believe, I've been around the block a thousand times and know exactly how christians of this era believe.
Again, if you have any substantive rebuttal to what I've provided from scripture, have at it.
 

Similar threads

Top