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The Pope Said

Discussion in 'News Stand' started by Dave M, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. I have recently had a debate among a few friends on the meaning and intention of this statement from the Pope, I think its a bad mixed message at best and he should of never said it. I also think it was deliberate and they (they being the writers and editors of speeches before they go public) knew it would confuse people . Would love to here your thoughts on it. My thoughts on it , is he had a chance to give Glory and praise to Jesus and failed big time, and left a message that was unclear.


    "To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, great humility. The cross shows us a different way of measuring success. Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors. And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross"
     
  2. Thanks for posting this.

    Yes, this was a blunder. I read the speech, didn't see it, but I took it to mean the pope was saying the cross was a failure by the world's standards. Or rather, it appeared to be a failure. But he needed to follow up and make that explicit and he didn't.

    I understand his English is not great, but still - he should be surrounded by enough smart people to figure that one out. He picks who he runs with so this is on him too.

    I want to keep perspective on the larger job he is doing and the message he has, especially about uplifting the poor. He blew it on this - not just his speechwriters, he has authority over them - he did this. But I don't believe it was intentional. I believe if he was questioned in his native tongue, if the cross was victory, yes or no, he would say yes.

    The problem he faces is that he's leading a church with corrupt doctrine. That has to be crippling.

    I want to add this - watching all the hoopla and watching him live before Congress - and it was a good address - at the same time - it made me incredibly grateful for the powerful passionate preachers of our day who esteem the word of God as a final authority and whose pure teaching makes my soul sing. It's the fruit of a different commitment to the Word of G-d. I don't expect to watch the pope and be moved. I do expect wisdom and clarity but never the YES! like I have with those that cling to the Word over anything else. There are definitely good points the pope has made, both in these US speeches and his encyclicals, but to expect biblically sound teaching seems to me to be a bit unreasonable.

    I pray and hope that we don't get all hung up about this as believers as if its a huge deal or start throwing words like Anti-Christ around. He's a very old Roman Catholic Christian man, limping around the country to try and be effective and to get rich people (meaning us as Americans) to pay attention to his message. A pope that reads and quotes Scripture and knows how hard it is for the rich to go to heaven. From his writings, I believe he has a heart for the poor, for good stewardship, and a true heart for our Lord and wants to do good work and expand his kingdom. What I don't know from his writings is if he knows how to connect what the values are with the spiritual actions it would take to catch the Lord's ear and to make His kingdom come. I pray the Holy Spirit helps the pope to lead and that the Lord will purify his Church. It must be very difficult to be the pope.
     
    Dave M likes this.
  3. "and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross"

    Without further clarification, this could easily be taken to mean what it literally says. Definitely an unfortunate choice of words which I do not believe were meant in the manner conveyed.

    It could mean the failure of the cross to end what Jesus had begun, which would match with Scripture. If he had remarked "our failure to pick up that cross and follow Him", it would place the emphasis on us where it belongs.

    Sadly, the image of the Pope has come to represent the best and worst of Humanity. Without knowing the mind of St. Francis, we can only speculate on what was really meant.
     
    fightngwrmwood and Dave M like this.

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