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The outer darkness vs hades vs the lake of fire

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Loyal
Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


There is a phrase that Jesus uses, it's only used three times in the Bible, and all three times it's only used by Jesus. It's called the outer darkness.
What is this place? All three times Jesus mentions it, He always says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there.
It's possible that Jude is mentioning the same place.

Jude 1:12; These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
Jude 1:13; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

Some people take that last phrase to mean, that they will be in the outer darkness "forever", but they will never be in hell or the lake of fire.

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

There is another place, only mentioned by name in Revelation, and only in chapters 19 and 20. It specifically says that anyone who receives the mark of the beast will go here.
It also says the beast and the false prophet will go here. It says Satan will eventually go here. It says these people will be "tormented day and night forever and ever".
It says hades itself (hell) will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire.

But it's that last verse we need to be concerned about. If anyone's name is not in the Book of Life, guess where they end up?

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
If anyone's name is not in the Book of Life
You know it seems to me that your name can be in the book of life, and then it can be blotted out

Revelation 3:5
The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


the above verse sure seems to come with conditions doesn't it?? you must conquer in order NOT to be blotted out of the book of like, so if your name is in the book of life and you dont conquer it gets blotted out it would seem, with a little speculation

Psalm 69:28
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.
 
Loyal
I wasn't really trying to go that direction, but...

Exod 32:32; "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33; The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Deut 29:20; "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.
Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
Loyal
Matt 8:7; Jesus *said to him, "I will come and heal him."
Matt 8:8; But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.
Matt 8:9; "For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it."
Matt 8:10; Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.
Matt 8:11; "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;
Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Matt 8:13; And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very moment.

back to the outer darkness...

At first glance it seems odd that Jesus would throw the outer darkness in the middle of this situation. Why is it this way in the Bible?
This passage is really about faith. Jesus offers to come heal his servant. The centurion says "I know You can heal him, even if You don't come to my house".
Jesus "marvels" at the mans faith. (Was Jesus really surprised?) He says no one in Israel has this much faith.
He goes on to say "many" will sit at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I am assuming He means many kinds of people, even those not in Israel.
He goes on to say "the sons of the kingdom will be cast out". In this context, I believe He is talking about Jews. They will be cast out because they don't have faith.
At least not the kind of faith the centurion had about Jesus healing his servant.

So where do these sons of the kingdom go? Into the outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Why doesn't Jesus simply say they will go to hell, or they will be burned up? What is different about this expression, this place?

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
I wasn't really trying to go that direction, but...

Exod 32:32; "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33; The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Deut 29:20; "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.
Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

LOL My bad thanks for the follow and continue on in your direction :smile:
 
Loyal

Matt 22:1; Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,
Matt 22:2; "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
Matt 22:3; "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
Matt 22:4; "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
Matt 22:5; "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
Matt 22:6; and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
Matt 22:7; "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
Matt 22:8; "Then he *said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
Matt 22:9; 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
Matt 22:10; "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11; "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 22:14; "For many are called, but few are chosen."


Like most of His other parables, Jesus is speaking about "the kingdom" again. The kingdom of heaven may be compared to...

It seems Jesus came to save the lost sheep of Israel ( Matt 15:24; Matt 10:5-6; )
But yet the Jews did not want to be "saved". For the most part they refused to be a part of Him.
They were invited to the feast, but they didn't really want to come. Everything was prepared for them, but they didn't want to come.

So other people were invited instead... (the Gentiles)
The obvious question here is, what if the Jews would have accepted Him, would the Gentiles still be saved?

So many other people come to the feast, not the ones originally invited. In fact "the king" (God) sends his armies to destroy them and set their city on fire.
(This happened to Jerusalem in AD 70)

Now, the other guests have arrived, but one man is not in wedding clothes. So even though he came to the feast, (to recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac)
He was "kicked out" of the feast. Why? What do the clothes signify?

In any case, it was because the man was not dressed correctly.... He also was thrown into the outer darkness (where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth).
It seems significant that Jesus added... "bind him hand and foot"... then throw him into the darkness. So he was tied up before he was cast out.
What does this signify?

.. to be continued ..
 
Loyal
I'm not 100% sure this is related yet, but a thought here...

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

It seems the angels that imprisoned in "eternal bonds under darkness" may be a clue?
The wedding guest that was cast out into the darkness, also had bonds on him (he was tied up).

Now even though it says their bonds are eternal in the darkness, it continues on to say they will eventually be judged. So the thought is, maybe the bonds are eternal, but
perhaps the "outer darkness" is not. It's just a place some go until they are judged.
Perhaps it is the same with the wedding guest. He also will eventually be judged.

Anyway.. just a thought.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
The third and last place we see the phrase "the outer darkness" is in the parable of the talents.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


As we know, the first two "slaves" invested their talents, and they were told "well done", they were called "good and faithful".
The same master gave the third slave the same opportunity. He also gave him a talent.
But yet he was punished for not investing his talent. He is called "wicked and lazy". Hard to believe Jesus would call anyone lazy, especially someone He expected
to invest their God given talents.

If we are the branches, and He is the vine, why would Jesus this this slave would be able to make an investment? What would the slave even have to invest
unless Jesus gave Him something worth investing? The slave even acknowledges that the talent came from the master.

Jesus says "throw out the worthless slave". Could Jesus really think someone that He gave a talent to was worthless? Yet, once again the slave isn't thrown into hell.
He is thrown out into the outer darkness... where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. While it may not in fact be hades, it certainly doesn't sound like a fun place to be.

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Is there any verse in the Bible that makes Hell sound like a pleasant place to spend eternity?
 
Loyal
Asbestos water skis?
I have heard people say at least they won't be lonely there, all their friends will be there. I suspect it's in half jest. But I wonder if they will still be laughing when that day comes.
 
Loyal
I have heard people say at least they won't be lonely there, all their friends will be there. I suspect it's in half jest. But I wonder if they will still be laughing when that day comes.
They most likely will be all alone in the dark being tormented by those demons locked in there with them. If their friends are there the won't care. That's only my opinion
 
Member
The third and last place we see the phrase "the outer darkness" is in the parable of the talents.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


As we know, the first two "slaves" invested their talents, and they were told "well done", they were called "good and faithful".
The same master gave the third slave the same opportunity. He also gave him a talent.
But yet he was punished for not investing his talent. He is called "wicked and lazy". Hard to believe Jesus would call anyone lazy, especially someone He expected
to invest their God given talents.

If we are the branches, and He is the vine, why would Jesus this this slave would be able to make an investment? What would the slave even have to invest
unless Jesus gave Him something worth investing? The slave even acknowledges that the talent came from the master.

Jesus says "throw out the worthless slave". Could Jesus really think someone that He gave a talent to was worthless? Yet, once again the slave isn't thrown into hell.
He is thrown out into the outer darkness... where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. While it may not in fact be hades, it certainly doesn't sound like a fun place to be.

... to be continued ...
Keeping in mind the context of the parable, the Lord is referring to His 2nd coming, and the talents represent the Word that was entrusted to His servants. Those who share the Word find it multiplies, those who bury it, forget the Word over time. So the one that got thrown into the outer darkness is saying that he was thrown into hell or the lake of fire.
 
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