The "one sided" view of scripture.

[B-A-C]

Lets take two passages of the Bible here. Some people would say they oppose each other.

Passage 1: John 6:44 (God’s Sovereignty)​

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
— John 6:44 (NASB)

This verse strongly emphasizes that coming to Jesus is only possible if the Father draws the person. It highlights God’s initiative in salvation.

Passage 2: Revelation 22:17 (Human Response)​

“The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come.’ And let the one who hears say, ‘Come.’ And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.”
— Revelation 22:17 (NASB)

This verse is a universal invitation—anyone who is thirsty or willing may come and receive the water of life. It emphasizes human response and free will.

So then which is it? Who is right? My response here is.. why are we so quick to pick a side to divide us. Why not try to reconcile the two passage?

Scripture is the authority, not theological systems. Labels like Arminian or Calvinist are just frameworks people use to describe how they interpret the Bible. But those frameworks should always be tested by Scripture, not the other way around.

Yes, “holistically” is a word—and you're using it perfectly! Taking the Bible holistically means:

• Interpreting verses in context (literary, historical, and theological),
• Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, and
• Seeking harmony, not contradiction, between passages.

This is exactly what you're doing when you say we shouldn't pick and choose verses we like, but instead reconcile seemingly conflicting ones.

when two passages seem to be in tension (e.g., God’s sovereignty vs. human responsibility), the goal isn’t to choose sides, but to hold both truths together—even if they stretch our understanding. That’s a mark of humility before God’s Word.

“scripture majority” is wise. When a particular theme or truth is repeated throughout Scripture, it carries interpretive weight. That doesn’t mean we ignore the less frequent passages, but we interpret them in light of the broader biblical witness.

How to reconcile the two "opposing" views above?

Here's how your interpretation brings the two passages together:​

• You affirm this as true: no one comes to Christ apart from God’s drawing.
• But you interpret the “drawing” as something God does for all people, in light of:

So, my view is that:

God draws all people, but not all respond. The drawing may be more evident or intense for some, but the invitation is genuinely extended to all.

---

This View Has Strong Scriptural Support​

• John 12:32 — “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
  Jesus says He will draw all people, which supports your interpretation directly.
• Romans 1:19–20 — God has made Himself known through creation, so that people are “without excuse.”
• Acts 17:27 — Paul says God arranged the world so that people “would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him.”

---

Reconciling the Tension​

So, in my view:

• John 6:44 is not exclusive—it’s descriptive of how salvation works: God must draw.
• Revelation 22:17 is inclusive—it shows that anyone who responds to that drawing is welcome.

This preserves:

• God’s initiative in salvation (He draws),
• Human responsibility (we must respond),
• And the universal offer of grace.

=================================

Any theological view that selectively emphasizes certain scriptures while ignoring others risks distorting the message of the Bible. That’s not just a concern with one system or another—it’s a danger for anyone who approaches Scripture without a commitment to its full counsel.

If someone:

• Emphasizes God’s sovereignty but ignores human responsibility, they may end up with a fatalistic or passive view of salvation.
• Emphasizes free will but ignores God’s initiative, they may reduce salvation to a human achievement.

In both cases, the result is what I would rightly called “chaos”—a theology that’s imbalanced, incomplete, and potentially misleading.

---

The Biblical Mandate: “All Scripture…”​

“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…”
— 2 Timothy 3:16

This verse supports my approach: we must take all of Scripture, not just the parts that fit our preferences or traditions.

---

Reconciling, Not Choosing Sides​

I'm advocating for a reconciliatory approach:

• When two truths seem to be in tension, we don’t cancel one out.
• Instead, we hold them together, trusting that God’s wisdom is greater than ours.

This is the same approach we see in the mystery of the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and many other deep truths of the faith.

 

[Brad Huber]

One of the greatest wisdoms a christian can have is knowing that they might be wrong about some things about their faith. This is as it should be. We are not all knowing, none of us were living as a disciple in the time of Christ on earth, that we could ask clarification. I believe that God doesnt hold us accountable for our errors short of those who vehemently teach that their faith is the only true one in every aspect, and to believe otherwise requires repentance. God is the ONLY one who calls us to repentance that has the authority to hold us responsible for not adhering to the faith HE calls us to.

 

[Dave M]

One of the greatest wisdoms a christian can have is knowing that they might be wrong about some things about their faith. This is as it should be. We are not all knowing,

Amen, I know of so many things I have changed my mind on over the years. I try to remember that it helps keep me grounded that faith is trusting in God, not me knowing everything. I can guarantee there will be a lot of humble pie served in heaven !

 

[Bill]

Amen, I know of so many things I have changed my mind on over the years. I try to remember that it helps keep me grounded that faith is trusting in God, not me knowing everything. I can guarantee there will be a lot of humble pie served in heaven !

Exactly

 

[Sue J Love]

Lets take two passages of the Bible here. Some people would say they oppose each other.

Passage 1: John 6:44 (God’s Sovereignty)​

This verse strongly emphasizes that coming to Jesus is only possible if the Father draws the person. It highlights God’s initiative in salvation.

Passage 2: Revelation 22:17 (Human Response)​

This verse is a universal invitation—anyone who is thirsty or willing may come and receive the water of life. It emphasizes human response and free will.

So then which is it? Who is right? My response here is.. why are we so quick to pick a side to divide us. Why not try to reconcile the two passage?

Scripture is the authority, not theological systems. Labels like Arminian or Calvinist are just frameworks people use to describe how they interpret the Bible. But those frameworks should always be tested by Scripture, not the other way around.

Yes, “holistically” is a word—and you're using it perfectly! Taking the Bible holistically means:

• Interpreting verses in context (literary, historical, and theological),
• Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, and
• Seeking harmony, not contradiction, between passages.

This is exactly what you're doing when you say we shouldn't pick and choose verses we like, but instead reconcile seemingly conflicting ones.

when two passages seem to be in tension (e.g., God’s sovereignty vs. human responsibility), the goal isn’t to choose sides, but to hold both truths together—even if they stretch our understanding. That’s a mark of humility before God’s Word.

“scripture majority” is wise. When a particular theme or truth is repeated throughout Scripture, it carries interpretive weight. That doesn’t mean we ignore the less frequent passages, but we interpret them in light of the broader biblical witness.

How to reconcile the two "opposing" views above?

Here's how your interpretation brings the two passages together:​

• You affirm this as true: no one comes to Christ apart from God’s drawing.
• But you interpret the “drawing” as something God does for all people, in light of:

So, my view is that:

---

This View Has Strong Scriptural Support​

• John 12:32 — “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
  Jesus says He will draw all people, which supports your interpretation directly.
• Romans 1:19–20 — God has made Himself known through creation, so that people are “without excuse.”
• Acts 17:27 — Paul says God arranged the world so that people “would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him.”

---

Reconciling the Tension​

So, in my view:

• John 6:44 is not exclusive—it’s descriptive of how salvation works: God must draw.
• Revelation 22:17 is inclusive—it shows that anyone who responds to that drawing is welcome.

This preserves:

• God’s initiative in salvation (He draws),
• Human responsibility (we must respond),
• And the universal offer of grace.

=================================

Any theological view that selectively emphasizes certain scriptures while ignoring others risks distorting the message of the Bible. That’s not just a concern with one system or another—it’s a danger for anyone who approaches Scripture without a commitment to its full counsel.

If someone:

• Emphasizes God’s sovereignty but ignores human responsibility, they may end up with a fatalistic or passive view of salvation.
• Emphasizes free will but ignores God’s initiative, they may reduce salvation to a human achievement.

In both cases, the result is what I would rightly called “chaos”—a theology that’s imbalanced, incomplete, and potentially misleading.

---

The Biblical Mandate: “All Scripture…”​

This verse supports my approach: we must take all of Scripture, not just the parts that fit our preferences or traditions.

---

Reconciling, Not Choosing Sides​

I'm advocating for a reconciliatory approach:

• When two truths seem to be in tension, we don’t cancel one out.
• Instead, we hold them together, trusting that God’s wisdom is greater than ours.

This is the same approach we see in the mystery of the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and many other deep truths of the faith.

As best as I understand what you just stated here, I agree fully, and it is the approach that I take with the Scriptures in my daily studies. Yes, we must be drawn by Christ because this shows that not only our salvation but even the faith to believe in Jesus comes from God, is persuaded of God (the meaning of biblical faith), and is gifted to us by God, and is not of our own doing - not of the will nor of the flesh of humans. So we don't get to create our own gospel message and our own idea of what faith looks like, which saves, but we must follow the teachings of the Scriptures, taught in their appropriate context, following what you have written above. So the whole idea of why we must be drawn to Christ is that the faith to believe in Christ will be the faith that comes from God and not of our own flesh. And this faith must result in us dying with Christ to sin and us following our Lord in walks of obedience to his commands, in practice, in the power of God, by the grace of God, or it is not biblical faith which saves. And all those who give lip service to the Lord only, who are still walking in sin, will not inherit eternal life with God.

 

[Sue J Love]

Amen, I know of so many things I have changed my mind on over the years. I try to remember that it helps keep me grounded that faith is trusting in God, not me knowing everything. I can guarantee there will be a lot of humble pie served in heaven !

In my younger years I learned some things right and some things wrong, wrong mainly because they were taught to me out of context. Over the course of my life I have changed my beliefs in some areas, the greater that my understanding of the Scriptures developed. Then, beginning in 2004, the Lord began me on a course of reading Genesis to Revelation, then again, and eventually the Psalms through Revelation, and again and again over multiple years, more than 10, I think. And the more I read the Scriptures in context, the more I began to see things that I had been taught wrong, and I had to change my beliefs in those areas. But the Lord wasn't just correcting the things I had wrong, but he was teaching me so much I never understood before, or that I never delved into before, probably because I didn't believe I could understand it. And there is still a lot I don't understand, so I am still in the process of learning, and most likely will continue in that until I die. The past 8 years he has been having me using Bible Gateway's verse of the day, only expanded to include the context, so I have not so much anymore been reading book by book. But reading book by book, in context, is what gave me my foundation in understanding better what the Scriptures are teaching.

 

[Bill]

In my younger years I learned some things right and some things wrong, wrong mainly because they were taught to me out of context. Over the course of my life I have changed my beliefs in some areas, the greater that my understanding of the Scriptures developed. Then, beginning in 2004, the Lord began me on a course of reading Genesis to Revelation, then again, and eventually the Psalms through Revelation, and again and again over multiple years, more than 10, I think. And the more I read the Scriptures in context, the more I began to see things that I had been taught wrong, and I had to change my beliefs in those areas. But the Lord wasn't just correcting the things I had wrong, but he was teaching me so much I never understood before, or that I never delved into before, probably because I didn't believe I could understand it. And there is still a lot I don't understand, so I am still in the process of learning, and most likely will continue in that until I die. The past 8 years he has been having me using Bible Gateway's verse of the day, only expanded to include the context, so I have not so much anymore been reading book by book. But reading book by book, in context, is what gave me my foundation in understanding better what the Scriptures are teaching.

Unless a person is really listening to the Holy Spirit, we will often miss things by doing study on our own. So God uses the body of Christians to help eachother learn about Him. A person, on thier own, is already not following God's teaching. "Where two or more are gathered in my name so am I". Individuals, who continue to be individual are already mislead, if in thier thinking they do not want to be influenced by others thinking. This leaves them open to the devils influences.

All of scripture has to agree with itself.

This is why some are called to have Gifts of Healing, others of Wisdom, others of Sight and so on. It is so we can learn to work as a team, a family.

All of scripture leads us to a family relationship, not just with ourselves, but with God.

In the relationship of the Apostles, they all refered to eachother as brothers. Why then is it so difficult for todays Christians to stop with this individual thinking - something the devil wants. And turn to working together, learning of God together.

There are some God shows in scripture, things overlooked by others. Like the fact, 153 fish are caught. Why 153, why not 154. Scientists discovered, there are only 153 species of fish in that lake. Or when Jesus speaks to Nathaneal. "When Nathanael approaches, Jesus says, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit!".
Nathanael then asks, "How do you know me?".
Jesus responds, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.".

There is something special going on here that was unknown for centuries.
Based on the scriptures, where Jesus was and where Nathaneal was under the fig tree, Jesus would have to be looking thru a large hill.

As many know, there are layers in scripture. To those with a doctors profession, some will stand out more than to others with a literary profession. So there are still special moments and surprizes to be found.

Individuals who feel that the only way is being by themselves lives in a delusion of what the devil feeds you.

We were never meant to live our lives alone without others, but to live in the family of Christians

 

[Sue J Love]

Unless a person is really listening to the Holy Spirit, we will often miss things by doing study on our own. So God uses the body of Christians to help eachother learn about Him. A person, on thier own, is already not following God's teaching. "Where two or more are gathered in my name so am I". Individuals, who continue to be individual are already mislead, if in thier thinking they do not want to be influenced by others thinking. This leaves them open to the devils influences.

All of scripture has to agree with itself.

This is why some are called to have Gifts of Healing, others of Wisdom, others of Sight and so on. It is so we can learn to work as a team, a family.

All of scripture leads us to a family relationship, not just with ourselves, but with God.

In the relationship of the Apostles, they all refered to eachother as brothers. Why then is it so difficult for todays Christians to stop with this individual thinking - something the devil wants. And turn to working together, learning of God together.

There are some God shows in scripture, things overlooked by others. Like the fact, 153 fish are caught. Why 153, why not 154. Scientists discovered, there are only 153 species of fish in that lake. Or when Jesus speaks to Nathaneal. "When Nathanael approaches, Jesus says, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit!".
Nathanael then asks, "How do you know me?".
Jesus responds, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.".

There is something special going on here that was unknown for centuries.
Based on the scriptures, where Jesus was and where Nathaneal was under the fig tree, Jesus would have to be looking thru a large hill.

As many know, there are layers in scripture. To those with a doctors profession, some will stand out more than to others with a literary profession. So there are still special moments and surprizes to be found.

Individuals who feel that the only way is being by themselves lives in a delusion of what the devil feeds you.

We were never meant to live our lives alone without others, but to live in the family of Christians

All of us who are in Christ, by genuine faith in the Lord Jesus, should be having our own daily times with the Lord in his word to where he speaks to us individually and he shows us his truth, his ways, and what he has planned for our lives. But this is not to the exclusion of the body of Christ. Yet, we need to be spiritually discerning, as the Bible teaches, and we need to be those who test the spirits to see which ones are of God, for we may have been, and we may still be being taught what is false in some of these "church" gatherings. Many "churches" are teaching lies and they are teaching the Scriptures out of context, and they are altering them to teach what is false. So our dependency should not be on the "churches" to teach us what is truth, for many (if not most) in the USA have altered the gospel to make it more acceptable to human flesh, and/or they are teaching humanistic philosophy and man-made doctrines and theologies which are anti-biblical. So we must obey the Lord in testing the spirits, to see which ones are of God, and in being those who rightly handle the word of truth via the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit in him opening our minds and hearts to the truth of what the Scriptures teach. And then fellowship with the body of believers in Christ who are teaching the biblical gospel and not the lies of the enemy which have infiltrated so many of today's modern "churches." Too much of what is called "church" these days are businesses of men being marketed to the world who dilute the gospel to make it more acceptable to human flesh. So, it is a dangerous teaching which says that followers of Christ must get their truth from a collective body called "church" and not from their own personal times of fellowship with the Lord in the teachings of the Scriptures. To me that sounds like a cult. Dangerous! We must be discerning people.

 

[B-A-C]

But this is not to the exclusion of the body of Christ.

Exactly! I don't really want to derail this thread too much (but hey it's my thread, I guess I can do whatever I want)
Isolationism is not a Christian value.

We shouldn't forsaking the assembling together... (as some do)
Where two or more are gathered...
A cord of three strands is not easily broken.. two are better than one..
It is NOT good that man should be alone.
Most of 1Cor 12 talks about "the body" of the church.. some are hands, some are feet, some are eyes, some are ears...
but none of them are meant to work alone. No exclusivity.
I would say the overwhelming theme of the Bible is..
love ... one another.
pray for .. one another.
People will know we are Christian by our love for .. one another.
encourage .. one another..
Bear each others burdens.. the burdens of .. "one another"..

If we are isolated.. there can be no body.. there can be no "one another".
No scripture or prophecy is given to private interpretation... this leads to personal doctrine.
If you're not part of a group... you have no support group, no one praying for you.. and you aren't praying for anyone
because you don't even know they exist.. much less what they need prayer for.

God did not create us to walk this walk alone.
I hear some "Christians" say.. churches are full of hypocrites... yes some are.
Churches have false doctrines and false teachers.. yes some do. Use the discernment that God gave you.. compare the teachings to the Bible.
People gossip, people betray you, people will hurt you... yes, yes, yes... all of the above is true.
But we shouldn't be putting our faith in people. Have you ever had a bad hamburger? or Pizza? I bet you didn't quit eating because
of that bad experience. Why quit going to church because of a bad experience?

Avoiding people because they aren't perfect is narcism. It is selfish.. it's all about me.. me.. me.
You don't want to get your hands dirty with other people because they are messy.. they are broken.. they have problems.
Yes they are, yes they do... but you are one of these people too. You are not better or above anyone else. You are not perfect either.
Quit making excuses and find a church.. find a body to be a part of.

God didn't give you a spirit of fear.. what are you afraid of? I can tell you exactly who gave you that fear.
Watching church on television isn't good enough. Those people don't know you, they aren't praying for you, they don't even know
how to pray for you. You have no accountability to them. (Which is likely what you really want in the first place)

Now of course some people are infirmed, some old people can't get around... but you can still have Christians visit you.
Study with you, pray with you.. be your spiritual support.

The Bible warns wolves will not spare the flock... wolves like to get sheep off alone on their own, separated from the herd.

 

[B-A-C]

We were never meant to live our lives alone without others, but to live in the family of Christians

Amen.

 

[B-A-C]

should be having our own daily times with the Lord

I am not saying we shouldn't have alone time. Even Jesus went off to be by Himself sometimes.
But He never isolated Himself from people for an extended time. It wasn't His ministry to isolate Himself.

Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
Php 2:4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

1Jn 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

 

[Garee]

This verse strongly emphasizes that coming to Jesus is only possible if the Father draws the person. It highlights God’s initiative in salvation.

I would offer another view. That coming to Jesus (savoir) the Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of the Holy father is only possible if the Father draws the person

And not the coming of the Son of man Jesus (savior) he outwardly demonstrated the "let there be" good will of the Holy Father as an apostle sent with the words of His Father.

The word Jesus as savior is used in two ways .Satan who is not subject to spiritual gospel understanding would make them one in the same as if God was dying mankind and not an invisible eternal Holy Spirit.

 

[Bill]

All of us who are in Christ, by genuine faith in the Lord Jesus, should be having our own daily times with the Lord in his word to where he speaks to us individually and he shows us his truth, his ways, and what he has planned for our lives. But this is not to the exclusion of the body of Christ. Yet, we need to be spiritually discerning, as the Bible teaches, and we need to be those who test the spirits to see which ones are of God, for we may have been, and we may still be being taught what is false in some of these "church" gatherings. Many "churches" are teaching lies and they are teaching the Scriptures out of context, and they are altering them to teach what is false. So our dependency should not be on the "churches" to teach us what is truth, for many (if not most) in the USA have altered the gospel to make it more acceptable to human flesh, and/or they are teaching humanistic philosophy and man-made doctrines and theologies which are anti-biblical. So we must obey the Lord in testing the spirits, to see which ones are of God, and in being those who rightly handle the word of truth via the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit in him opening our minds and hearts to the truth of what the Scriptures teach. And then fellowship with the body of believers in Christ who are teaching the biblical gospel and not the lies of the enemy which have infiltrated so many of today's modern "churches." Too much of what is called "church" these days are businesses of men being marketed to the world who dilute the gospel to make it more acceptable to human flesh. So, it is a dangerous teaching which says that followers of Christ must get their truth from a collective body called "church" and not from their own personal times of fellowship with the Lord in the teachings of the Scriptures. To me that sounds like a cult. Dangerous! We must be discerning people.

How do you know that "Most" are. See i can not agreed with that. What i would agree with, "Some" are. It is like saying most people are homosexual, where the fact is less than 10% are.

The problem today with homosexual thinking is that it's everywhere. Billboards TV radio music movies everything. And it's all being pushed on us aggressively whether we want it or not.

The same thing seems to be true with the concept that all these churches are wrong. Something I don't agree with. I know that there are certain "POLITICS" as I call it, that stand forth more clearly with some Churches than with others. But it doesn't mean that they don't love God. It doesn't mean that they don't worship God. It just means that they have a certain view that stands out among other churches more so than others. A good example of this would be the Pentecostals, we're speaking in tongues or having the gifts of the Spirit is very strong. And then there are other churches where it isn't taught so strongly.

You could say it's the same thing with the Catholics with the Eucharist. Where it's taught very strongly in that church. And they will say that they are following scripture just like everybody else says that they are following scripture.

The bottom line in all of the churches is the Core teaching. That Jesus is the son of God that Jesus was born of a virgin that Jesus is God. That Jesus died for our sins. That Jesus rose again from the dead. That Jesus is in heaven.

These are core understanding in all Christian churches. If the church doesn't follow the Core teaching than they are not Christian.

Then you have the offshoots like the ones in California that want to teach homosexuality is okay. This goes against scripture, it's pretty obvious all you have to do is read Romans.

But if you want to see that the Catholics are all going to hell because they don't think like you do. Then you're wrong. Because they've also follow the scripture. If you don't believe in the Eucharist if you don't believe in the red and wine becoming the body and blood of Jesus. I don't have a problem with that cuz not everybody can handle it. But it is scriptural.

So you can't say that they don't follow the Bible.

So I'm going to tell you that when you sit there and complain about most churches. I'm a Catholic but I don't have a problem with the Baptist I don't have a problem with the Pentecostals I don't have a problem with anyone that loves God. Because I can see God loving all of them. There's no way that you can sit there and say that God hates churches. Look at all the lives of people that are showing through movies, the girl that fell in the tree with the stomach condition. There are so many miracles and it's not limited to one church or another church they're just all over the place.

What everything is based on is where your heart is at. If you cannot love your brothers and sisters as yourself then you have a problem. If you cannot love your enemies as yourself you have a problem. If you cannot see God working in all these different churches, you have a problem.

I'm not talking about just you Sue, I'm talking about everyone that falls in that line of thinking that all the churches are going to hell and a handbasket. God didn't raise up people to bring these churches along just so he can have somebody else condemn them. They were all brought up for a reason. But everyone has to understand that this is God involved with all of us and working with all of us to bring us home.

But it is our choice to love and accept Jesus as our Lord. Because if you do not accept Jesus as your lord and if you do not have love in your heart then you've lost everything

 

[B-A-C]

But if you want to see that the Catholics are all going to hell because they don't think like you do.

Do I think all professing Protestant will be saved.. "no". Do I think all professing Roman Catholics will go to hell.. "no".
You have a lot of valid points here and I agree with a lot of them. But... (there is always a but)

There is another thread about replacement theology here on TalkJsus currently. It is about the Gentile church replacing Jews as the chosen people of God. It doesn't have much to specifically do with the Roman Catholic church.

But perhaps the Roman Catholic church has it's own version of replacement theology?

The Pope is the head of the church instead of Jesus.
Confess your sins to a earthly priest instead of Jesus.
Mary is the mediator, instead of Jesus.
Name your churches after Mary (i.e. Our Lady of.. (whatever)) instead of Jesus or God. (i.e. Assembly of God, church of Christ, etc.. )
The Roman church has the concepts of vicars (substitutes) to be a substitute for Jesus.
The Roman Catholics have statues of Mary .. everywhere... But very few (in many cases.. none) instead of Jesus.
The official vatican position is that homosexuality and trans-gender is OK... they even support clergy who do this.
Calling Mary the mother of God.
The church forgives your sisns.. instead of Jesus.

Things like the eucharist vs communion, and calling priests "father" are minor things.
But replacing Jesus with so many other things is the bigger issue. I would call this the "real replacement theology".
Perhaps not "all" Roman Catholics believe these things.. but I would say the majority do.
Do you know what the word Protestant means? Do you know what we are Protesting?

But to be honest.. I find some teachings in some Protestant churches equally disturbing.

 

[Sue J Love]

I am not saying we shouldn't have alone time. Even Jesus went off to be by Himself sometimes.
But He never isolated Himself from people for an extended time. It wasn't His ministry to isolate Himself.

Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
Php 2:4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

1Jn 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

BAC, I am part of the body of Christ every day. I fellowship with the body of Christ every day. I listen to what others teach. I learn from other Christians. I read what you wrote initially and agreed with you wholeheartedly. I have read what other Christians have written on here and have agreed with some of them. If I was an isolationist I would not be on this site reading what others write and agreeing with some and responding to some, and the same with other Christian sites. I gather with other believers daily for Christian fellowship. And we encourage one other and we use our spiritual gifts in encouraging one another. But we need to have our personal times of fellowship with the Lord, too, and we need to be testing the spirits, as you expressed in your initial post here, so that we are believing the truth and not the lies of the enemy.

 

[Bill]

Do I think all professing Protestant will be saved.. "no". Do I think all professing Roman Catholics will go to hell.. "no".
You have a lot of valid points here and I agree with a lot of them. But... (there is always a but)

There is another thread about replacement theology here on TalkJsus currently. It is about the Gentile church replacing Jews as the chosen people of God. It doesn't have much to specifically do with the Roman Catholic church.

But perhaps the Roman Catholic church has it's own version of replacement theology?

The Pope is the head of the church instead of Jesus.
Confess your sins to a earthly priest instead of Jesus.
Mary is the mediator, instead of Jesus.
Name your churches after Mary (i.e. Our Lady of.. (whatever)) instead of Jesus or God. (i.e. Assembly of God, church of Christ, etc.. )
The Roman church has the concepts of vicars (substitutes) to be a substitute for Jesus.
The Roman Catholics have statues of Mary .. everywhere... But very few (in many cases.. none) instead of Jesus.
The official vatican position is that homosexuality and trans-gender is OK... they even support clergy who do this.
Calling Mary the mother of God.
The church forgives your sisns.. instead of Jesus.

Things like the eucharist vs communion, and calling priests "father" are minor things.
But replacing Jesus with so many other things is the bigger issue. I would call this the "real replacement theology".
Perhaps not "all" Roman Catholics believe these things.. but I would say the majority do.
Do you know what the word Protestant means? Do you know what we are Protesting?

But to be honest.. I find some teachings in some Protestant churches equally disturbing.

I don't want to get into a Catholic Protestant issue here. But there is no instead of thinking at all in the Catholic Church. Everything that we have leads us to Jesus.

Having the president of the United States does not lead people away from following Jesus. Nor does having the pope as the leader of the church replace Jesus either he's just the leader of the church.

Confessing sins to a priest. You don't have to confess since to a priest. It's only recommended and the priest is not taking the place of Jesus he's helping you understand your sins he's there to help you confess your sins to Jesus.
I don't know if you're aware of this or not but priests are not allowed in fact they take a vow never to tell anyone what the confessions are because basically it's between you and God. And it's not his place to say one thing or another as far as talking to other people about it.
Some priests over the years have actually gone to jail, in California especially because they take those vows of Silence seriously. Where are the prosecutors want what the confession is.

Mary is not instead of Jesus. Mary points everything towards Jesus tells us to pray to Jesus teaches us to follow Jesus everything is about Jesus. If anyone would bother to take the time to actually look at all the stuff maybe you would find the truth versus the falsehood.

The Vicars are not a replacement of Jesus. Try learning about it please. There is nothing that replaces God nothing that replaces Jesus. It's all the false teaching that comes from preachers that can't stand the Catholic Church this is where you get your information from.

I've heard it myself at some Churches where the preacher will have a beautiful sermon for the first half of it and then spend the second half teaching falsehood about the Catholic Church. I don't get it. Why continue to spread falsehood.

I'm sorry to the moderators here they have to put up with this bologna.

Maybe if we could stick to the Christian principles forgiveness love and knowing that Jesus is our Lord and savior maybe we will become more like Jesus

 

[B-A-C]

I don't want to get into a Catholic Protestant issue here.

Where do we draw the line? Jehovahs Wtneese claim to be Christian.. Mormons claim to be Christians.. Universalists claim to be Christians..
are they all your brothers in Christ?

falsehood about the Catholic Church

I will let this go for now.

 

[Bill]

Where do we draw the line? Jehovahs Wtneese claim to be Christian.. Mormons claim to be Christians.. Universalists claim to be Christians..
are they all your brothers in Christ?



I will let this go for now.

Even for me it's a little bit of a stretch to accept Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons as brothers and sisters. I think as far as they are concerned all I can put in is what Paul says about what is a true Jew. Not someone who looks like a Jew but someone whose heart is circumcised. This person will be praised by God and not by man.

Thank God I'm not the judge LOL

 

[Dave M]

I guarantee one of the highest value things we can do,, is invest in other peoples lives, I am terrible at it, and have been praying hard on it!! please all pray for me !! we are made for each other to help and grow and disciple, that is the second greatest commandment of all,, is to love our neighbor as self !! being a Christian should come with many relationships.

 

[Curtis]

Christians should come with many relationships.
Do all Christian "relationships" have to be physical? Can you pray for someone in another state or country without having to go there to be with them?

What did Paul mean when he said.....

Col 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Php 1:7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace. (KJV)

The words, ".. I have you in my heart,.." can also be translated, "..you have me in your heart..." This was written to the Church.

Php 1:7 It is right and appropriate for me to have this confidence and feel this way about you all, because you have me in your heart and I hold you in my heart as partakers and sharers, one and all with me, of grace (God's unmerited favor and spiritual blessing). [This is true] both when I am shut up in prison and when I am out in the defense and confirmation of the good news (the Gospel). (AMP)

The Church is not being built here on earth it is being built where the chief cornerstone has been laid on Mt Zion, the Heavenly Jerusalem.

1Pe 2:6 Therefore, it is also contained in the Scripture, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHIEF CORNERSTONE, ELECT, PRECIOUS, AND HE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM WILL BY NO MEANS BE PUT TO SHAME."

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

There are no "denominations" here; only born from above people who have died and many who are still alive on earth.

Talk about reconciling scriptures. Who believes this?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: