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The Nicene Creed

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Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
There are of course many Christian "denominations" in the world today. But it seems some are "more Christian" than others. I say this tongue in cheek... because after all... everyone knows I'm right :)

But seriously... we all think we are right to some degree, and that's OK. But the early church fathers
came up with some creeds that they agreed every denomination should adhere to. We don't all have to agree on everything, but there are some things we should all agree on. This is what they came up.

The Nicene Creed (there are a few different version floating around, this version is from Wikipedia)

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.

God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.

Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.

By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.

He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.

He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.

We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.
Now of course the churches we would generally call "cults" don't agree with many of these things,
but as a rule it, seems most mainstream Christian churches would at least agree on the above.

The council of Nicea agreed on this in 325AD. This is the same council that also decided which books were included in the canonized Bible.

... if I can find a good versions, I might also post the "apostles creed".

The apostles creed goes like this....

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
Don't let that word "catholic" scare you. It doesn't mean Roman Catholic. The word "catholic" simply means the global (word) church body.

Sometimes you hear people say things like... "You Christians can't agree on anything... you can't even agree with each other."

But is that really true? It seems there are many things we all agree on. I dare say, I agree with "every" one here on TJ on a least some things.

We do disagree on polarizing subjects like tongues, one saved-always saved, water baptism, sinless-living, and predestination. For some, it is those very subjects that draw them like a magnet.
But it seems there is more that we do agree with, than we "don't" agree with. At least to me. :)
 
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Active
Sometimes you hear people say things like... "You Christians can't agree on anything... you can't even agree with each other."

But is that really true? It seems there are many things we all agree on. I dare say, I agree with "every" one here on TJ on a least some things.

We do disagree on polarizing subjects like tongues, one saved-always saved, water baptism, sinless-living, and predestination. For some, it is those very subjects that draw them like a magnet.
But it seems there is more that we do agree with, than we "don't" agree with. At least to me. :)
"A little leaven leaventh the whole lump." (Gal 5:9)
 
Active
Was it the east and west churches disagreed over one word and that caused a big schism in the church.

Back in the day. Im not sure which creed they squabbled over but maybe it was just in two different languages.

Some things can get lost in translation. I mean in nz we had fhe treaty of waitangi that both maori and british signed ..,but maori signed one version and the british another and apparently the two translations dont match exactly.

We all like to be right except when we are shown to be wrong lol. Thankfulky our God is almighty and can sort out our petty differences...Hes the judge of all better Him than us.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Was it the east and west churches disagreed over one word and that caused a big schism in the church.
The Protestant reformation is generally attributed the Luther's 95 Theses.

Ninety-five Theses - Wikipedia

But it was much more than one word. No more priests, No more Pope, No more indulgences, No more "Latin only"
services. No more Mass, No more confession to Priests, it was a pretty big deal.

The Word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What are we protesting? The Roman Catholic Church.

The Anglican church split off from the Roman Catholic church because King Henry the 8th wanted to get
divorced (anulled?) and remarry someone else. The Pope said no. The King said fine... I'll start my own church
without a Pope. For a long time they were simply Roman Catholic without the Papal hierarchy, Some
Anglican/Episcopal churches has since become more "westernized". But many remain in the same RC traditions.

The church of England/Anglicans/Episcopalians are a complicated Denomination. Most Protestants do not
consider then Protestants, but they themselves consider themselves Protestant for the most part.

The Protestant church has also been split many times....

The three main branches would be Calvinism, Wesleyism and Armenianism. There are more branches off of these.

For examples Calvinists believe in the "Five Solae".
Five solae - Wikipedia

But as a rule they also believe in "Once-saved always saved", Predestination, and loss of free-will pertaining to Salvation.
(Keep in mind, this is a blanket statement... not 100% true in every case). Generally they say the will and the ability
to live righteously come from Christ alone.

Armenianism is the other extreme.
They believe you can lose your salvation, they believe God wants "all men" to be saved (as opposed to God already
predestinated "some" men to be saved, and others are "predestinated" to go to Hell). While Armenians would say
they are "saved" by Faith alone. They would say sanctification and living righteously are also required. They would
agree that man can not do this on their own power (the Holy Spirit empowers us) but that the will to do this partially
comes from the individual.

Wesleyism is somewhere in the middles of these two extremes. But there are other differences as well.
They are considered "limited grace". God gives grace to us when we sin, but there is a limit to how much we can sin.
They also believe you can lose your salvation.
 
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Loyal
"A little leaven leaventh the whole lump." (Gal 5:9)
Paul wrote this regarding something fundamental to the faith - that our salvation is from Jesus Christ alone.

Most of the more vociferous debates on this forum, as BAC rightly says, are on lesser matters.
 
Active
I wasnt meaning the prostant catholic divide but the east and west schism of orthodox and catholic, that was over one of the creeds, they were arguing over one word about the holy ghost if I recall, called the filolique.

You can look it up.
 
Active
Paul wrote this regarding something fundamental to the faith - that our salvation is from Jesus Christ alone.

Most of the more vociferous debates on this forum, as BAC rightly says, are on lesser matters.
Every aspect of Christianity is "fundamental to the faith".
As we are exhorted to be of one mind, those who vary, even slightly, show they are not of the real church.
They are of a different mind.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Rom 14:1; Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:10; But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
 
Active
Rom 14:1; Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:10; But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
Paul was referring to those who were vegetarian and those who ate meat...those who strictly observed the sabbath and those who each day was a sabbath. This is in reference to jewish believers.

If you read the verses in between what you quoted.

Im just putting the context here bac cos you cant just post scriptures and make them mean what you want them to mean.

It is good to have creeds for the basics but as shown many couldnt even agree on some words. I dont know that we can always agree on everything but as long as our faith is in Lord and saviour Jesus Christ we each have to answer to Him. So who are we really agreeing with? Each other or the witness God provides?

Today at church heard a sermon about the witness John wrote of in 1 John 5:1-13

Read this passage prayerfully.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Paul was referring to those who were vegetarian and those who ate meat...those who strictly observed the sabbath and those who each day was a sabbath. This is in reference to jewish believers.
Where do you see this was for Jewish believers? However.. it was for believers.

The fact that is was about food and sabbath days does not change the context. These were the things being judged.
But the entire passage is about passing judgment.

Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

Rom 14:3; The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

Rom 14:4; Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

The word "brother" here doesn't mean your biological brother. It means a brother in the faith. Jews were not brothers
"in the faith" as they did not beiieve Jesus was the Messaiah at all.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

Rom 14:15; For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

Yes it about food and the sabbath... But it is really about judging other believers in ANY area they are weak in.
And if you (or me) judges them in that area to the point they are hurt or doubt their faith.... we are no longer walking in love.

Rom 14:20; Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense

So even thought this passage specifically says "food", do you think it's OK to tear down the kingdom and the faith of weak believers in any other area where they are weak?
 
Loyal
Every aspect of Christianity is "fundamental to the faith".
As we are exhorted to be of one mind, those who vary, even slightly, show they are not of the real church.
They are of a different mind.
I am not sure that 30+ years of following Jesus I have met anyone that I agree with on every aspect of faith. If we broke off fellowship with everybody over any difference, we would have no church. Certainly there's no one on talkjesus that I agree with on every matter.

There are many areas where my understanding is incomplete and faulty, and that is true for all of us. We are all still learning and growing in faith and understanding.

The creeds are useful in outlining the fundamentals of faith and excluding heresy. I believe that Jesus is lord, the only way to the Father, and the model and means of our salvation. And I share in fellowship with anybody who believes and lives by this.
 
Active
Where do you see this was for Jewish believers? However.. it was for believers.

The fact that is was about food and sabbath days does not change the context. These were the things being judged.
But the entire passage is about passing judgment.

Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

Rom 14:3; The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

Rom 14:4; Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

The word "brother" here doesn't mean your biological brother. It means a brother in the faith. Jews were not brothers
"in the faith" as they did not beiieve Jesus was the Messaiah at all.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

Rom 14:15; For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

Yes it about food and the sabbath... But it is really about judging other believers in ANY area they are weak in.
And if you (or me) judges them in that area to the point they are hurt or doubt their faith.... we are no longer walking in love.

Rom 14:20; Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense

So even thought this passage specifically says "food", do you think it's OK to tear down the kingdom and the faith of weak believers in any other area where they are weak?
No its not ok, but neither is it ok to quote passages out of context.
If there are believers who are weak it does not mean they are sinful it just means they are weak. I can see ofhers accusing each other of sin when they are not sinning, they are the ones weak in faith.

This is why Peter decided not to eat with gentiles for a while after originally eating with them because jewish believer (weak in faith) accused him of sinning. They were the ones passing judgement, not Peter. They were tearing him down.

Another thing is jewish people were actually called brothers. The whole house of israel were related.

I can see what you mean though, though most people who post here intend to be encouraging. God did make us weak so that we could depend on him...a little lower than the angels...none of us can claim we are angels...but we are called to be saints.

The joy of the Lord is your strength.
 
Active
I am not sure that 30+ years of following Jesus I have met anyone that I agree with on every aspect of faith. If we broke off fellowship with everybody over any difference, we would have no church. Certainly there's no one on talkjesus that I agree with on every matter.
What you would "have" is a church with the same mind, and in agreement with all that God teaches.
The posers would leave eventually, manifesting their love of this world over their love of God.

There are many areas where my understanding is incomplete and faulty, and that is true for all of us. We are all still learning and growing in faith and understanding.
Learn from the elders and teach the younger.

The creeds are useful in outlining the fundamentals of faith and excluding heresy. I believe that Jesus is lord, the only way to the Father, and the model and means of our salvation. And I share in fellowship with anybody who believes and lives by this.
Good to hear!
Praise be to God for His never ending provision.
 
Active
I like how the apostles creed says about the communion of saints.

Notice that it doesnt say 'the communion of sinners'. There can be no such thing.

What is communion...its that we all eat and drink together at the same table, its the Lords supper. Giving thanks to Jesus body and blood given to us. How often do we do this..,well until His return.
 
Active
Yeah that's all very interesting. BUT
let us remember that in the first century the gospels, Acts and the epistles
are ALL about one church, one faith, one gospel, one way, one baptism with
two components (water and Spirit) AND that
ALL disciples spoke in tongues as the only sign given in the NT for the
infilling of the Holy Spirit.
 
Active
I like how the apostles creed says about the communion of saints.

Notice that it doesnt say 'the communion of sinners'. There can be no such thing.

What is communion...its that we all eat and drink together at the same table, its the Lords supper. Giving thanks to Jesus body and blood given to us. How often do we do this..,well until His return.
Very true, in one sense, but "communion" can also be interpreted as any "communication".
We are in communion right now.
In the "creed", it may mean either definition.
 
Active
Yeah that's all very interesting. BUT
let us remember that in the first century the gospels, Acts and the epistles
are ALL about one church, one faith, one gospel, one way, one baptism with
two components (water and Spirit) AND that
ALL disciples spoke in tongues as the only sign given in the NT for the
infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Sounds like a good start...for a new thread.
 
Member
There are of course many Christian "denominations" in the world today. But it seems some are "more Christian" than others. I say this tongue in cheek... because after all... everyone knows I'm right :)

But seriously... we all think we are right to some degree, and that's OK. But the early church fathers
came up with some creeds that they agreed every denomination should adhere to. We don't all have to agree on everything, but there are some things we should all agree on. This is what they came up.

The Nicene Creed (there are a few different version floating around, this version is from Wikipedia)



Now of course the churches we would generally call "cults" don't agree with many of these things,
but as a rule it, seems most mainstream Christian churches would at least agree on the above.

The council of Nicea agreed on this in 325AD. This is the same council that also decided which books were included in the canonized Bible.

... if I can find a good versions, I might also post the "apostles creed".

The apostles creed goes like this....



Don't let that word "catholic" scare you. It doesn't mean Roman Catholic. The word "catholic" simply means the global (word) church body.

Sometimes you hear people say things like... "You Christians can't agree on anything... you can't even agree with each other."

But is that really true? It seems there are many things we all agree on. I dare say, I agree with "every" one here on TJ on a least some things.

We do disagree on polarizing subjects like tongues, one saved-always saved, water baptism, sinless-living, and predestination. For some, it is those very subjects that draw them like a magnet.
But it seems there is more that we do agree with, than we "don't" agree with. At least to me. :)
I agree with all the above.
BT
 

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