• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

The Messiah is the son of God

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:9)

Member
How did Christ grow in the spirit if he is God and God does not change?

John 1:1 (Greek text) In [the] beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and God was the Word.

John 1:1 Interlinear: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

Me: It was the Word or direct expression of God himself that he communicates with man, for no one has ever seen or heard the invisible God (John 5:37, 1 Tim 1:17).

So who was it that declared that the Messiah was his son in Matthew 3:17? Wasn’t it his Father? I believe it was an angel of God acting as the agent of God just as an angel of God was acting as an agent of the Messiah in Revelation 1:1.

The Word of God expressed himself through a theopathy or christheopathy in the OT.

The word of God did not become the son of God until he became one with flesh in John 1:14. You cannot find the sons of God pertaining to man spiritually or the Word of God in the Old Testament except in Dan 12:3 where it is “one like the son of God”.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Adam was called the son of God because he was a direct creation of God and had no human ancestors (Luke 3:38). Likewise the angels, who are made in the image God also had no ancestors and are called the sons of God. I believe that the seed of David grew completely in its bond with the Word of God (John 7:38) “The spirit was not yet____” and not the “spirit was not yet given” is the correct rendering.

Thus the Word of God, who is the direct expression of God and is God now has the human heart and soul of the Messiah in him (Revelation 19:13).
 
Member
Hi All,


Is Jesus God?

1 John 4:3 Interlinear: and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus (me: salvation) Christ (me: anointed) is come in ___flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

New American Standard Bible
Col 2:9
For in Him all the FULLNESS of Deity dwells in bodily form.

Me:
“Jesus” or Joshua and Yasha means salvation. Christ means “anointed one”.

Isa 44:8 (NASB) Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"

1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1sa 43:11
I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him (me: The Father, John 14:7) that is TRUE, and we are IN HIM THAT IS TRUE, EVEN IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. This is the true God (me: one person), and eternal life.

Me: Isn’t Christ TRUE. Both the Father and son are TRUE and comprise ONE TRUE PERSON. They comprise the one true God.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let GOD BE TRUE, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Me: Christ is TRUE just as his father is TRUE Together they are the TRUE God. The Word that became one with flesh is the invisible God expressed. The Messiah is not a liar like all of mankind is. He never sinned.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
John 14:7
“But these things are eternal life: ‘They shall know you, for you alone are The God of Truth, AND Yeshua (John 1:14, 18) the Messiah whom you have sent.’

Me: This does not mean that the Messiah is not God. This means both the Father, who is the higher self of God, and Yeshua who is God but not as great as his Father comprise one person. How do we know this? The expression is not as great as the source but is still represents the source (John 1:1-2).

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Me: There is one YHWH, the invisible and the expressed visible.

Gen 19: 24 Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the YHWH out of heaven;
 
Member
Hi All,

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth (2 Cor 3:17), is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Me: Christ is the spirit of God (John 6:63). He expresses the thoughts of the mind of God to us.

Matt 23:7 (NASB) and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. 8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher.

Me: Christ is our only teacher. He is the spirit of truth.

1 Cor 15:45 (NASB) So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Me: God raised us up by the spirit of God in him (Romans 8:11). That spirit is the Word of God or Christ. The Word or spirit of God in Christ rose both his human soul and body from the grave (John 2:19-21).

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father (Rev 21:22-23)?

Isa 9:6 (NASB) For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
 
Member
The Spirit of God within anyone is my God including Jesus.

The Spirit of God is my God.
 
Member
You need to distinguish the mind of the spirit, which is spirit, from the spirit. God is spirit, and so is his son which is the expression of the mind of his father. This is the spirit mind of the messiah. The messiah also has a human mind. Both are completely united as one after Christ resurrection and glorification. . Those born again have a regenerated spirit mind together with a human mind that is conforming to Christ.
 
Member
You need to distinguish the mind of the spirit, which is spirit, from the spirit. God is spirit, and so is his son which is the expression of the mind of his father. This is the spirit mind of the messiah. The messiah also has a human mind. Both are completely united as one after Christ resurrection and glorification. . Those born again have a regenerated spirit mind together with a human mind that is conforming to Christ.
No
I don't need to do anything other than what I'm doing now which is dwelling in the manifestation of the Spirit of God you do whatever you want to do but as for me I got it made and I'm not changing nothing.
 
Member
Hi All,


John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only (me:: monogenous—unique or one of a kind) Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Heb 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Me: Christ is THE son of God. Christians are not the son of God but sons of God indirectly through Christ. We become the sons of God through adoption through Christ and because of Christ and not of ourselves. Therefore, we can never become the sons of God like Christ was and is, and we can never become Gods like Christ is God because God is fully expressed in him. In turn God is expressed in us through Christ, in us humans through the humanity of Christ, not directly by God himself.

John 14:6


Romans 4:17 (NASB)
(As it is written, I have made thee a father ( me: Abraham) of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


Me
: So, why did God wait to create? This is because time is meaningless to God. Where does the beginning begin. The beginning is eternal to God. It is as if it always was. Time is a creation that will vanish. Time had a beginning and will have an end. None of what happened from the beginning of the physical creation to its end will be remembered by God, or by anyone for that matter, as if it had not happened.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.


Isa 43:25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
 
Member
Hi All,


Romans 4:17 (NASB) (As it is written, I have made thee a father ( me: Abraham) of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Me:
Per Rev 13:8 Christ was crucified, before the creation of the earth or age. Christ had also ascended into heaven before the foundation of the world. All this was in the mind of God as if it always was. Even as Christ spoke the words in
John 3:13 above, “even the son of man which is in heaven”, his resurrection and glorification had already happened in the mind of God.


Heb 5:5 (NASB) So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten (me: born) You”;

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Me: Christ is the beginning of the end of the old creation. H

Psalms 2:6 (NKJV)But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
7 “I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten (me: born) You.

Me: Christ was never fully the son of God until after his resurrection and glorification.
 
Member
Hi All,

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Me: So how was Isaac born of the spirit when there was no Son of God yet.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Me: We must be born again of the water (human heart of the Messiah) and the spirit (heart of the Father.


Adam had two aspects to his one human mind, intellectual and spiritual. When he had eaten of the forbidden fruit, the spirit aspect of his human mind had died This is the aspect where humanity can relate to God. So, death of this aspect was passed on to all men. For example:

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead (me: dead of the human relationship with God) bury their dead (dead of the human relationship with God and physical death).

Me: Everyone sins because of the death of this human relationship with God.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death (me: death of the human relationship with God) passed upon all men, (me: eph ho of on the basis of which) all have sinned:

Click on the three links below:

Romans 5:12 Interlinear: because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;

Strong's Greek: 1909. ἐπί (epi) -- on, upon

Strong's Greek: 3739. ὅς, (hos, hé, ho) -- usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, that
 
Member
Hi All,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Me: So we die physically because of sin.
.


John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (me:soul) shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet ______; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.).

Me: Christ’s humanity was not fully integrated with the holy spirit at this point until after his resurrection and glorification. So, we must be born of the new Adam, the new man. This is the water in John 3:5. This is of the new spirit heart or seed of the new man--of the human heart. This is in addition to the holy spirit and is in the holy spirit

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Me: We are baptized in the spirit or human heart and soul of the humanity of Christ.

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Me Abraham temporarily had the seed of the coming Christ in him. So did David. But this was just the seed and not the fully developed nature of Christ in them.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Me: Romans 1:3 states that Christ was made of the seed of Abraham according to the flesh. But flesh means more than the physical seed. It is also of the human spirit or heart. Click the two links immediately below and see.

immediatlyttps://biblehub.com/greek/4561.htm


Ezk 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh

Me:
The Jews and Israelites and all of the world will receive a new heart.


Numbers 14:21
but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Isa 11:9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.
 
Member

Wnl

This is my beloved Son of whom I am well pleased,

If you don't believe Gods word, you call God a liar, May God forgive you.

With Love, Wnl
 
Member
Hi All,


The Messiah would transform into a spirit—the holy spirit with the human heart of man in it.

.John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Me: This verse says “in the beginning, not “before the beginning” of creation. The expression of God or the Word was expressed from the beginning in all of his creation.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Me: God is spirit. The Word which is his expression is likewise spirit. Thus the glory that the Word had with God is that of a spirit expression. The Word returned to God as a spirit expression with the heart of a man in it. The Word was in God from eternity but was expressed before the creation.

2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 
Member
New International Version
Rom 7:24
What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Strong's Greek: 1537. ἐκ (ek or ex) -- from, from out of

Me: This verse is pertaining to our individual bodies


Me: If you click on the link below, you will see “the redemption of “THE” body and not “our” bodies. This verse, I believe, is addressing the body of the church as a whole, and not our physical bodies.


Young's Literal Translation
Romans 8:23
And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;
Romans 8:23 Interlinear: And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;

Me: This verse is pertaining to the redemption of the church or body of Christ. If you look at the Greek text in the above link, you will find “the body” singular and not “our bodies” plural.

Christ is the human expression of God himself which all of mankind will become. Prior to this, God was expressed in theopanies and christophanies. This expression is “the Word of God”, for no one has heard or seen God at any time.

1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.


Me: The body of Christ will not appear as for Christ only and then his church, but for all the members together as one body together.

1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise (me:appear) first:

Strong's Greek: 450. ἀνίστημι (anistémi) -- to raise up, to rise
to arise, appear, stand forth
; of kings, prophets, priests, leaders of insurgents: Acts 5:36; Acts 7:18. middle, Romans 15:12; Hebrews 7:11, 15. of those about to enter into conversation or dispute with anyone, Luke 10:25; Acts 6:9; or to undertake some business, Acts 5:6; or to attempt something against others, Acts 5:17. Hence, ἀναστῆναι ἐπί τινα to rise up against anyone: Mark 3:26 (עַל קוּם). (Synonym: see ἐγείρω, at the end Compare: ἐπανίστημι, ἐξανίστημι.)

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Me: The body of Christ appears as one and at the same time when Christ returns.


Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Me: The dead in Christ in 1 Thes 4:16 are those that have crucified the flesh, for the present body is dead.

John 11;25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead (me: OT saints before Pentecost in Acs 2) , yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 
Member

Wnl

Sorry Truthcomber I wasn't speaking to you personally, I would never judge anyone,

I was I believe just making a point that if God says anything it's definitely true, because God never lies, With Love Wnl
 
Member
Hi All,

Rev 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Me
: That should end it right here. The Messiah is the Word of God in God and is his expression.
 
Member
Hi All,


Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Right hand of God - Wikipedia
The right hand of God (Dextera Domini “right hand of the Lord” in Latin) or God’s right hand may refer to the Bible and common speech as a metaphor for the omnipotence of God and as a motif in art.
In the Bible, to be at the right side “is to be identified as being in the special place of honor”.[1] In Jesus’ The Sheep and the Goats, the sheep and goats are separated with the sheep on the right hand of God and the goats on the left hand.
It is also a placement next to God in Heaven, in the traditional place of honor, mentioned in the New Testament as the place of Christ at Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Matthew 22:44 and 26:64, Acts 2:34 and 7:55, 1 Peter 3:22 and elsewhere. These uses reflect use of the phrase in the Old Testament, for example in Psalms 63:8 and 110:1.[2] The implications of this anthropomorphic phrasing have been discussed at length by theologians, including Saint Thomas Aquinas.[3]

God spoke to the people in the OT by his Word indirectly through his prophets. He spoke to the apostles through the Messiah. God speaks to us through his Son who is the Word of God. Sometimes the direct messenger is through an angel, as in the Book of Revelation, but nether-the-less it goes through the Messiah first.
 

Similar threads


Top