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The "Last Days" revisited

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Loyal
This seems to be a popular subject here on TJ every now and then. I know there is another thread going right now about 90% of he earth being lost.
This thread isn't about "how many" or "what percentage"... but rather what are the signs of when the last days will come.

2 Pet 3:3; Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
2 Pet 3:4; and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
2 Pet 3:5; For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,

2 Tim 3:1; But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 Tim 3:2; For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3; unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
2 Tim 3:4; treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

I don't know if two passages in the Bible could more accurately describe this current time on the Earth.
I've been hearing it's the "last days" since I was a teenager (half a century ago). I keep thinking how much more evil can men get? But it seems they still have
ways that surprise me from time to time.

I have also come to realize that the Bible uses the phrase "last days" to describe different time periods. For example...

Micah 4:1; And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it.

These last days, are not the same last days spoken to in first two passages above. I believe the last days in Micah, would be either after or during the millennial reign.

Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

Acts is quoting Joel 2:28; here. But I believe the "last days" being spoken to here, would be the current time frame... before the second coming of Jesus.

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Ezek 38:16; and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog."

When I read the news, I wonder sometimes is this prophesy happening very soon. If Gog is what we would consider mostly Russia.

Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Some consider Magog to be current China.

The disciples asked Jesus, what are signs of the end times? This was His answer.

Matt 24:3; As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Matt 24:4; And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Matt 24:5; "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:6; "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7; "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Matt 24:8; "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Matt 24:9; "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Matt 24:10; "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Matt 24:11; "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:12; "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come
.

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16; then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Matt 24:17; "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18; "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19; "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20; "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:28; "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.


The Abomination of Desolation is mentioned in Daniel 11:31; and Daniel 12:11; but we aren't specifically told what it was.
This is from the Book of Maccabees (
I know this isn't canonized scripture, or an accepted part of the Bible) but it does give at least one theory.

1 Macc 1:41; Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,
1 Macc 1:42; And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.
1 Macc 1:43; Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.
1 Macc 1:44; For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,
1 Macc 1:45; And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days:
1 Macc 1:46; And pollute the sanctuary and holy people:
1 Macc 1:47; Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and unclean beasts:
1 Macc 1:48; That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:
1 Macc 1:49; To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.

Tradition says that Antiochus Epiphanes III desecrated the temple and sacrificed pigs on the altar there (the most unclean animal in Judaism).

The point here is... it says in Matt 24:15; that the abomination of desolation will take place again. In Daniel it says the abomination of desolation will last about 3 1/2 years. ( Dan 12:11; )
Jesus says this one of the signs of the "last days". For this reason, many believe the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem again.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Much of what Jesus says in Matthew 24 is also in Luke 17. There are some differences to be aware of.

Luke 17:20; Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
Luke 17:21; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Luke 17:22; And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
Luke 17:23; "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luke 17:24; "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
Luke 17:25; "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luke 17:26; "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luke 17:27; they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:28; "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luke 17:29; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30; "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31; "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32; "Remember Lot's wife.
Luke 17:33; "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:34; "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.

Luke 17:35; "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36; ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

Luke 17:37; And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

Jesus tells the Pharisees that "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed".
... but then He turns around and tells His disciples... when I return it will be like lightning flashing across the sky.
I believe the Pharisees were looking for the Messiah to set up an Earthly kingdom and free Israel from the Roman occupation.
But Jesus didn't come to setup that kind of kingdom. At least not yet.

In a way... the kingdom of God can be observed with signs. Sometimes miracles happen, people get healed, lives and hearts get changed.
Wicked evil people become loving, caring and giving. So in this way, the kingdom of God can be observed, and is already here.

But a day is coming.... the Bible calls it "the day of the Lord".

.... to be continued ...
 
Member
34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "

All that Jesus predicted in Matt 24 HAPPENED nearly 2000 years ago and will not be repeated. Same for Paul's predictions.

ONLY the Revelation reveals OUR end of era scenario (that even Jesus did not know about until after He ascended into heaven).

Revelation 13:7 "It was granted to him to wage war with the saints."
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
PreTrib is a major false prophecy of our age designed to make you think you have no need to know how to identify the Beast and have no need to understand the "marking."
Satan wants you confused and vulnerable when the Beast emerges and you are on earth wondering what is going on.
 
Loyal
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
PreTrib is a major false prophecy of our age designed to make you think you have no need to know how to identify the Beast and have no need to understand the "marking."
I don't recall mentioning anything resembling "pre-trib" in any of these posts.
All that Jesus predicted in Matt 24 HAPPENED nearly 2000 years ago and will not be repeated.
Matt 24:35; "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

You think that heaven and earth already passed away 2,000 years ago?

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

You think the abomination of desolation has already happened since Jesus was resurrected?

I can possibly agree with you on the "no pre-trib" point of view. But as for the rest...

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Do you believe Jesus has already sent the angels here to gather up the elect? If this is the case, why are any of us (including you) still here?
Do you think the great tribulation has already happened?
 
Member
24:1 Jesus departed from the temple and was leaving when His disciples came to show Him the temple buildings.
2 Jesus answered them, “Do you not see all these things?
Truly I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be thrown down.” .............
34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. " Matt 24

Jesus's "this generation" was the generation of Ancient Israel. He was not speaking of a generation 2000 years later.

All that Jesus and Paul predicted would happen to end the era of Ancient Israel happened some 2000 years ago as promised/predicted.

The world has been in the "Christian (or 'Revelation era') era" for nearly 2000 years.

OUR end of era scenario/sequence of events is revealed in the Revelation. Not by Paul nor by pre ascended Jesus.

Yes, to end the era of Ancient Israel, Jesus sent the angels to gather up the saved of the era of Ancient Israel. That did not cause Jesus's Church to disappear.

The "great tribulation" of the era of Ancient Israel has already happened. Since then there have been many more "tribulations."

The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION surely happened in conjunction with the Roman destruction of the Temple.
 
Loyal
The world has been in the "Christian (or 'Revelation era') era" for nearly 2000 years.
So you think Satan was already cast into the Lake of Fire? When did this happen?

OUR end of era scenario/sequence of events is revealed in the Revelation. Not by Paul nor by pre ascended Jesus.
The great tribulation in Matt 25 is the same great tribulation in Revelation.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Yes, to end the era of Ancient Israel, Jesus sent the angels to gather up the saved of the era of Ancient Israel. That did not cause Jesus's Church to disappear.
The problem with this theory is that even the Gentiles are called the elect.

Rom 8:33; Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;

Who was the book of Romans written to? Jews or Gentiles?

The "great tribulation" of the era of Ancient Israel has already happened. Since then there have been many more "tribulations."
But not the great tribulation, not the mark of the beast, and not armageddon.

The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION surely happened in conjunction with the Roman destruction of the Temple.
Except "The regular sacrifice" will continue after the abomination of desolation,

Dan 12:12; "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!
That couldn't happen if the temple was destroyed.

You still haven't answered if this is a new heaven and new earth.
 
Loyal
We haven't specifically gotten into Revelation and the last days here, because this thread was really about "what are the signs" leading up to these things.
But this morning one passage stuck out at me.

Rev 15:5; After these things I looked, and the temple of the tabernacle of testimony in heaven was opened,
Rev 15:6; and the seven angels who had the seven plagues came out of the temple, clothed in linen, clean and bright, and girded around their chests with golden sashes.
Rev 15:7; Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.
Rev 15:8; And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power; and no one was able to enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished.

There is of course a temple in heaven. Apparently some people can either enter it now, or will be able to enter it in the future.
But when "the seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God" are given to the seven angels. The seven "bowl judgments" in Revelation. (Mostly Revelation 16)
It says no one can enter the temple in heaven during this time. ( Rev 15:8; )
 

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