The Gumball Machine

[jiggyfly]

The Gumball Machine
Author unknown
You’re in the store and your child asks for a quarter for the gumball machine. Now everybody knows how a gumball machine works. You put in a quarter, you turn the handle, the quarter drops off into no man’s land and a gumball falls down the chute. It’s pretty cut and dried. Suppose your child puts the quarter in, turns the handle, the quarter drops but no gumball falls down the chute? Your disappointed child is going to assure you that if you just put another quarter in he will get the gumball this time. So you try again. You put in the quarter, turn the handle…no gumball. Your child insists again that if you just put in the quarter and turn the handle this time he will get a gumball. Wanting to please your child, you reluctantly put in a third quarter, but there is still no gumball. Now the machine has 3 of your quarters and you have nothing in return. You can see the gumballs through the glass so the machine has to work, right? Maybe you’re doing something wrong. Maybe you’re not putting the quarter in right, or you’re turning the handle too slow or too fast. Just one more quarter he begs… How many quarters are you going to put in that machine before you admit to yourself that it’s broken?

This is what tithing is like. We’re told that all we have to do is put in our 10% and we will get a return. So we put in our money and wait for the promised return. When it doesn’t come, we put in another 10%, and then another…

The verse I have heard used most often by pastors, in an attempt to extract the tithe is Malachi 3:10

"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the Lord Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. "

According to the pastor, this verse says that if you hand over ten percent of everything you make to his church you will be blessed in such abundance that you cannot contain it. So all tithers should be filthy rich right? Well what if they’re not? Were they doing something wrong? Did they not have enough faith? Maybe they didn’t tithe long enough. Maybe God is testing them. Maybe they didn’t pay the full tithe. Maybe they should be tithing on the gross not the net. They didn’t tithe on that gift card they received last Christmas….does God consider that cash? According to the verse in Malachi faith does not play a part. It’s more of a formula. You tithe, you receive a huge blessing. Malachi doesn’t say that you have to wait awhile so that God can make sure you’re going to stick with it. It doesn’t say that if you don’t tithe to the penny all bets are off. In other words, you put in your quarter and the gumball falls.

So if you’re not getting your return what is the problem? Is the Bible wrong or is the pastor wrong? Well if you’re a Christian you know the answer to that one. The tithe that pastors are teaching today is a lie. When God gave the law of tithing he did not ask for money. The tithe was always food. The fact is, Malachi was not written to Christians. It was written to the Israelites of that time who were living under the law. The law of Moses does not apply to Christians. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Christians have to tithe anything to anyone.

If you’re not getting your return I suggest you stop putting in your quarters. You’re not going to get a gumball. The machine is broken.

 

[stephen]

So if you’re not getting your return what is the problem? Is the Bible wrong or is the pastor wrong? Well if you’re a Christian you know the answer to that one. The tithe that pastors are teaching today is a lie. When God gave the law of tithing he did not ask for money. The tithe was always food. The fact is, Malachi was not written to Christians. It was written to the Israelites of that time who were living under the law. The law of Moses does not apply to Christians. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Christians have to tithe anything to anyone.

If you’re not getting your return I suggest you stop putting in your quarters. You’re not going to get a gumball. The machine is broken.

Whatever you decide good men of God need cash, yes cash I use the word without reserve, they need cash to buy opportunies, to preach the gospel.

"Woe unto me" if I preach not the gospel.

 

[Chad]

Your right brother Stephen. Money is a necessity and it is needed to publish Bibles, pay wages (yes, pastors too need to feed their family), bless those in need - charity from church in whole, so forth.

Every Christian I know admits to tithing, or admit regretfully they have not tithed. I believe it is selfish and wrong to not give back. So we take in all the money for ourselves? Food = money. You cannot have one without the other. Yo need money to buy food. You need food, therefore you need money. This is not ancient days where you go out and pluck some corns.

Brother jiggy, I love you as a brother in Christ but it is very obvious you are extremely heavy on preaching against tithing. The bible is very clear. You are very clear on preaching against tithing. I do not know why you focus so heavily on this to be honest. But that is your decision and I won't hold anything against you for that. I will simply ask GOD to provide me the necessary Scripture and study notes to post here and any other thread where the topic of tithing arises.

Here is a good article about tithing:
What does the Bible say about Christian tithing?

In some ways, it does agree with your views brother jiggy. I do to. However, I think its important to preach that it is honorable to give back to GOD. Its about giving (Jesus gave His life), joyfully giving. Its about wanting to give to bless others in need. Its about supporting the church and furthering the kingdom. Its about building up and edifying others who need the push. Money plays a huge role in modern times.

I don't believe in the literal 10% of income. I just use it as a simple and biblical (reference) method to give each month of my income. I don't count the exact amount. I just feel too blessed to hold back, so I gave maybe more than 10%. I cannot sit back and watch extended commercials or infomercials from Feed the Children or Children's International and do nothing about it. I see starving children on my TV screen, grossly looking because they are deprived of food. Will I sit here preaching about giving 10%? No. I want to help.

My pastor just started his new church in a movie theater. Its about about 7 months now. He seems to do well. But is that it? No, there is room for growth. Growth requires more money. He is not employed as he works full time as a pastor and works very hard. He needs money for his family. Where does the money come from? Those churchgoers who tithe each Sunday, willingly. What if no one tithed? Then what happens? That question answers itself.

Edit...more details

In regards to the gumball machine analogy, I admit it is a good one specifically for those who tithe only to want a return. That is, those who treat GOD like a personal genie. Then, tithing does not work. Otherwise, if those who give joyfully and already faithful that GOD has already blessed them, GOD honors that.

I give because GOD gave me first. I give because others are in need of food, money or support in general. I give and expect a return (wait, let me finish). You see, I expect a return because as I already said in the previous sentence, GOD gave me first. I already know GOD has blessed me first, I know GOD will provide in the future abundantly more than I deserve. This is the kind of expectation I have. Faith, by GOD's grace. Not a personal genie.

 

[jiggyfly]

Your right brother Stephen. Money is a necessity and it is needed to publish Bibles, pay wages (yes, pastors too need to feed their family), bless those in need - charity from church in whole, so forth.

Every Christian I know admits to tithing, or admit regretfully they have not tithed. I believe it is selfish and wrong to not give back. So we take in all the money for ourselves? Food = money. You cannot have one without the other. Yo need money to buy food. You need food, therefore you need money. This is not ancient days where you go out and pluck some corns.

Brother jiggy, I love you as a brother in Christ but it is very obvious you are extremely heavy on preaching against tithing. The bible is very clear. You are very clear on preaching against tithing. I do not know why you focus so heavily on this to be honest. But that is your decision and I won't hold anything against you for that. I will simply ask GOD to provide me the necessary Scripture and study notes to post here and any other thread where the topic of tithing arises.

Here is a good article about tithing:
What does the Bible say about Christian tithing?

In some ways, it does agree with your views brother jiggy. I do to. However, I think its important to preach that it is honorable to give back to GOD. Its about giving (Jesus gave His life), joyfully giving. Its about wanting to give to bless others in need. Its about supporting the church and furthering the kingdom. Its about building up and edifying others who need the push. Money plays a huge role in modern times.

I don't believe in the literal 10% of income. I just use it as a simple and biblical (reference) method to give each month of my income. I don't count the exact amount. I just feel too blessed to hold back, so I gave maybe more than 10%. I cannot sit back and watch extended commercials or infomercials from Feed the Children or Children's International and do nothing about it. I see starving children on my TV screen, grossly looking because they are deprived of food. Will I sit here preaching about giving 10%? No. I want to help.

My pastor just started his new church in a movie theater. Its about about 7 months now. He seems to do well. But is that it? No, there is room for growth. Growth requires more money. He is not employed as he works full time as a pastor and works very hard. He needs money for his family. Where does the money come from? Those churchgoers who tithe each Sunday, willingly. What if no one tithed? Then what happens? That question answers itself.

Edit...more details

In regards to the gumball machine analogy, I admit it is a good one specifically for those who tithe only to want a return. That is, those who treat GOD like a personal genie. Then, tithing does not work. Otherwise, if those who give joyfully and already faithful that GOD has already blessed them, GOD honors that.

I give because GOD gave me first. I give because others are in need of food, money or support in general. I give and expect a return (wait, let me finish). You see, I expect a return because as I already said in the previous sentence, GOD gave me first. I already know GOD has blessed me first, I know GOD will provide in the future abundantly more than I deserve. This is the kind of expectation I have. Faith, by GOD's grace. Not a personal genie.

Paul said that each of us are to decide what we should give in our own hearts. To try and practice the old covenant law of tithing is to compromise who you are in the new covenant plain and simple. Now it bothers me to see people embrace a man-made teaching and tradition that prevents them from maturing in Christ.

Many think I'm against giving and to be honest with you I don't care what others think. Father no longer requires anyone to tithe.

 

[Hisalone]

Chad said:

Every Christian I know admits to tithing, or admit regretfully they have not tithed. I believe it is selfish and wrong to not give back. So we take in all the money for ourselves? Food = money. You cannot have one without the other. Yo need money to buy food. You need food, therefore you need money. This is not ancient days where you go out and pluck some corns.

I do to. However, I think its important to preach that it is honorable to give back to GOD. Its about giving (Jesus gave His life), joyfully giving. Its about wanting to give to bless others in need. Its about supporting the church and furthering the kingdom. Its about building up and edifying others who need the push. Money plays a huge role in modern times.

Chad I would agree wholeheartedly. I can't speak for jiggyfly, but it is obvious he is not preaching against giving in the manner prescribed in the New Testement. Perhaps he focuses more against this modern preaching of tithing, because that is such a central and dominant doctrine within the church systems today.

As for support of the men who have devoted their lives to the preaching of the Gospel, I have no problem ministering to their needs where food, shelter, and all around comfort are concerned. Nor do I disagree with supporting their funding to preach the gospel. However, many of these "men of God" live such lavish lifestyles well beyond their necessities and well beyond the means of the ones supporting them. I would say, though, that many others do live simply and don't have the flamboyancies of those previously mentioned, so don't get me wrong.

As well, with concern to the support of the church, I again have no problem with. Yet, when you refer to the church, I am thinking about the people rather than ministering to the needs of a building. If I give my hard-earned money to a member of the Body of Christ because I was led of the Holy Spirit to minister to their needs, that is giving to the Church, plain and simple. Paying for the building, maintenance, and mortgages of such grandiose structures we call churches should be if at all secondary. The people (especially the poor, the orphan, and the widow) and the preaching, and missioning come well before all that. Sadly, in churches today, often a second collection is taken up for these things, and the main collection (and in most instances, the greater part of the offering), go to support the former, and not the latter. Now, if said building is actually providing shelter for different families within the Body, then I could definitely see that as a priority when offerings are divided, but again, rarely is this ever the case.

Know that I am not trying to be disagreeable here, just stating my own convictions. If I am blind to the Truth, I pray God to open up my eyes of understanding in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.

In Him

Hisalone

 

[Steward]

Tithing

I look at tithing as a stumbling block, if you will. I think many people who are poor, neglect the needs of their family in order to protect them from a curse that was given during the Mosaic law. Also many people who are rich use it to please their conscience.

The children of God who have been reborn into his Spirit have something that Abraham or Israel never had. Spirit-led giving is what God intended for New covenant giving. Spirit controlled giving was not intended to be - give the automated tenth first and then after that seek God's will.

Our gracious giving should not be automated. Yes i know that we can ask God to bless the tithe and help you have a good heart about giving it, but that's not Spirit-LED giving. That's Spirit FILLED giving.

Spirit led giving will take constant communication with God because He will direct you at times with what you should do with what he's given you.

 

[stephen]

I look at tithing as a stumbling block, if you will. I think many people who are poor, neglect the needs of their family in order to protect them from a curse that was given during the Mosaic law. Also many people who are rich use it to please their conscience.

The children of God who have been reborn into his Spirit have something that Abraham or Israel never had. Spirit-led giving is what God intended for New covenant giving. Spirit controlled giving was not intended to be - give the automated tenth first and then after that seek God's will.

Our gracious giving should not be automated. Yes i know that we can ask God to bless the tithe and help you have a good heart about giving it, but that's not Spirit-LED giving. That's Spirit FILLED giving.

Spirit led giving will take constant communication with God because He will direct you at times with what you should do with what he's given you.

Hi Brother. I hear what you say, and you have every right to say it. As I see 'tithing', it is not an argument. Surely not. It is a response to our love for Jesus........."For God so loved that He gave........" He gave His best.........

I am, we are, surrounded by folks (God bless them) who struggle to pay the rent. I would not expect such good folks to 'tithe' God forbid. And we welcome such profusely to the fellowship. To bless them. This is church

Tithing is the 'ideal' as I see it. For those who can, or desire to tithe, it is such a joy......to be a blessing. I could talk of such blessing .....worldwide from my fellowship.

http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/20671-am-i-thief.html

In His Love........

God Bless You, and thanks for being a part of TalkJesus.