The Fountain of Love & Faith.

[Chopper]

There are two foundational acts that are very necessary for the advancement of every Christian in their growth to maturity and usefulness for Jesus the Son of God. One is LOVE and the second is FAITH. Neither of these come from us, we only exercise them when we go to the source....Lets look at the source, and praise the source.

The following comes from one of my morning devotions from Spurgeon....
“We love him because he first loved us.”

There is no light in the planet but that which proceedeth from the sun; and there is no true love to Jesus in the heart but that which cometh from the Lord Jesus himself. From this overflowing fountain of the infinite love of God, all our love to God must spring. This must ever be a great and certain truth, that we love him for no other reason than because he first loved us. Our love to him is the fair offspring of his love to us. Cold admiration, when studying the works of God, anyone may have, but the warmth of love can only be kindled in the heart by God’s Spirit. How great the wonder that such as we should ever have been brought to love Jesus at all! How marvellous that when we had rebelled against him, he should, by a display of such amazing love, seek to draw us back. No! never should we have had a grain of love towards God unless it had been sown in us by the sweet seed of his love to us. Love, then, has for its parent the love of God shed abroad in the heart: but after it is thus divinely born, it must be divinely nourished. Love is an exotic; it is not a plant which will flourish naturally in human soil, it must be watered from above. Love to Jesus is a flower of a delicate nature, and if it received no nourishment but that which could be drawn from the rock of our hearts it would soon wither. As love comes from heaven, so it must feed on heavenly bread. It cannot exist in the wilderness unless it be fed by manna from on high. Love must feed on love. The very soul and life of our love to God is his love to us.
“I love thee, Lord, but with no love of mine,
For I have none to give;
I love thee, Lord; but all the love is thine,
For by thy love I live.
I am as nothing, and rejoice to be
Emptied, and lost, and swallowed up in thee.” (from e-Sword)

I'm not sure if I ever really realized that it's impossible for me to love God and my neighbor the way God wants me to. This devotion from Spurgeon brought my mind to the realization that it must not be my feeble love that I must exercise, but the Love of Almighty Jehovah. We were introduced to this amazing love when He called us to be His child through the death of His Son in Salvation.

An amazing truth here is that He commands me to love Him with all my heart, and He then supplies to me the love necessary to accomplish this impossible exercise on my own.

Since the love that God expects me to exercise towards Him come from His fountain to me, what about this fleeting thing called FAITH? Jesus says that if we had the faith, the size of a mustard seed, we could move mountains. I've searched thru my whole heart and I haven't found that kind of faith. Can it be the same as LOVE? Lets look....

Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Please notice a truth that most people pass by when they read this. "I live by THE FAITH of the Son of God." Most all other translations put it like the ESV...."I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."....

They leave out the little definite article thee. The modern translations want us to believe that we simply believe by faith in the Son of God which brings the exercise of our own faith into view. Hey folks, I don't really have any faith. What faith I do have comes from Jesus, He is the fountain source of faith....

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Therefore FAITH is a gift of God. I don't have any, it must come out of the fountain of God, just like love.

I have noticed that I can exercise something very similar to faith that is honored by God as I seek first His Kingdom, and that is "confidence" in God to supply a need. If my need goes beyond normal, and enters the realm of a miracle, then a great faith is necessary for that like healing of my body. it is then that I ask Jesus for the faith necessary for that healing. What God will honor is the fact that I came, in trust, to Him for the healing and not to some idol or human. Trust is our gift back to our God for being so kind to us.

I believe that it is necessary for fallen man to go directly to the Source of all that is supernatural. God instituted prayer as the means for us to receive what is impossible for us to obtain by our own energies. Love, the kind that God honor's, comes from His fountain of all that's good. Faith comes from the same fountain. We honor our God by trusting Him for what we don't have, and what He does possess. It's like wisdom.... James 1:5 "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him." (ESV)

May God bless us as we trust Him for what we are helpless in. By Grace He bestows such wonderful gifts so that we can please Him and make His Name known to those who have never heard. Amen.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree with most of this article. You make some good points.

Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Probably the most debated verse in Christendom right now. Is faith the gift that saves us? Or is it it the grace of Jesus's death that saves us?
Most people would say both. But of course you can only say that... if you believe in Jesus in the first place.

The classic argument against faith only comes from God is... "not everyone has faith", therefore God must be playing favorites and chooses for some people to go to hell.
This would seemingly go against many other verses...

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So then... these verses would have to be wrong if God doesn't want everyone to be saved. But it may be they "all" have the faith necessary... but simply choose
to reject God/Jesus anyway. ( 2 Thes 3:2; says not all men have faith )

But on the other hand...
Rom 12:3; For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

King James says...
Rom 12:3; For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So it seems we all have the faith necessary.. some of us simply choose not to accept God.
Where else does faith come from?

Rom 10:17; So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Gal 3:5; So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:6; Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

May we not blame God for those who make the choice to go to hell.

I realize this is a major tenet of Calvinism.. (perhaps the MOST important tenet).
But if God controls our decisions... then he also controls our decisions to sin.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother @bac

I do believe you've extrapolated Brother Choppers post to a topic it was not intended to touch upon. So the title of the thread "Fountain of Love & Faith". This was really intended for the believer as his opening paragraph says

very necessary for the advancement of every Christian in their growth

Not that what you've posted is not worth reviewing. It's just that there have been other threads that have gone the way your response is attempting to move this one to. How about we attempt to keep it to "Fountain of Love & Faith" as it pertains to the believer and their growth in the Lord? Sound good? :thumbsup:

With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

P.S. You are always welcome Dear Brother to start another thread on the topic of "predestination verses freewill, can they be reconciled", and the many off shoots that come from that subject.

 

[B-A-C]

Chastisement received... I will be good.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Chastisement received... I will be good.

Love you Brother!

 

[Chopper]

Thank you Christ4Ever. I almost followed that bunny trail. No offense to B-A-C because what he wrote intrigued me. I do feel in my spirit, a wealth of knowledge locked up in these two great gifts of God to undeserving men. Love and Grace, wow!! Can we ever reach the fulfillment of these? Probably not until we reach the Kingdom.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Can we ever reach the fulfillment of these? Probably not until we reach the Kingdom.

I really don't know brother if even when we are in heaven if this will ever be faith complete in knowing "Love" in total. I do believe we will be in the full presence of "Love" because God is Love and that He resides in us. However, if Eternal Life is for getting to know God fully. Which is how I read the meaning of John 17:3 to signify "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Then we may never know the extent of it! Which to me is a "WOW" moment! I use wow when I can't find the words to express the wonder of it!

With Faith being the integral part of who we are, will be; require also an eternity for knowing the depth of it in each of us? What comprehension will be shared to/with us in Glory! However, minus the "doubt" that currently seems to plague us.

Still, with either. Can/Will we ever say it is "our" Love & Faith unfeigned which we return to the Father in turn? Is it even possible or just too unimaginable to be realized that it will be our own to freely give? For who would withhold it if they could!!!! It brings to mind that our God's thoughts are not ours. So, I look forward to the surety of finding out dear brother!!!

With love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
Nick
<><

 

[Chopper]

I really don't know brother if even when we are in heaven if this will ever be faith complete in knowing "Love" in total. I do believe we will be in the full presence of "Love" because God is Love and that He resides in us. However, if Eternal Life is for getting to know God fully. Which is how I read the meaning of John 17:3 to signify "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Then we may never know the extent of it! Which to me is a "WOW" moment! I use wow when I can't find the words to express the wonder of it!

With Faith being the integral part of who we are, will be; require also an eternity for knowing the depth of it in each of us? What comprehension will be shared to/with us in Glory! However, minus the "doubt" that currently seems to plague us.

Still, with either. Can/Will we ever say it is "our" Love & Faith unfeigned which we return to the Father in turn? Is it even possible or just too unimaginable to be realized that it will be our own to freely give? For who would withhold it if they could!!!! It brings to mind that our God's thoughts are not ours. So, I look forward to the surety of finding out dear brother!!!

With love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
Nick
<><

Well said my friend, well said. I can't wait until I reach the other side and experience the love that is there but not here. I think that we only scratch the surface of love here in this life. That reminds me of this Scripture....

John 21:15 "When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
21:16 He said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."
21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep."

I suppose this was a valid question to Peter, since he denied Jesus three times. Jesus asks Peter three times if he loved Him, it seems to fit. The kind of love that we express on this side of Glory is quite fickle. Given the right set of circumstances, we'd all do what Peter did I think. BUT, when we reach Glory Land, where Christ is, our love will be different in many ways, I hope.

 

[amadeus2]

I have been reading these posts hopefully with some understanding, but even that is not always so easy.

I really don't know brother if even when we are in heaven if this will ever be faith complete in knowing "Love" in total. I do believe we will be in the full presence of "Love" because God is Love and that He resides in us. However, if Eternal Life is for getting to know God fully. Which is how I read the meaning of John 17:3 to signify "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Then we may never know the extent of it! Which to me is a "WOW" moment! I use wow when I can't find the words to express the wonder of it!

With Faith being the integral part of who we are, will be; require also an eternity for knowing the depth of it in each of us? What comprehension will be shared to/with us in Glory! However, minus the "doubt" that currently seems to plague us.

<><

@B-A-C Rom 12:3; For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

We were started with a measure of faith which came to us from or through or by Jesus, did it not? This measure was available to us or was in in us even at natural birth to our natural mother, was it not? This measure is a measure of Light which is Jesus, but it is only enough to get started.

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

Notice that the above verse says that the Light "lighteth every man"... not just those who have been "born again". This gives us enough access to move on to more through the rebirth, which will allow us, if we pursue it, to finish our course in and with Him

In order to finish with and in Him, we need an increase, which is where we go when we grow and how do we grow?

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

And is not the Word of God, Jesus?

So then we must continue to look to him to be increased... "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..." Heb 12:2

Or to increase our faith,.. no? The apostles were in the right place and asked for an increase from the right source, did they not?

"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith." Luke 17:5

So then the "Fountain" or source of Faith for us is Jesus at the start and all along the Way in order to be in at the finish with Jesus.

When our faith is finished, should that not mean that we have moved from faith to knowledge? Already every believer has some knowledge and some faith. The end of faith should be found at knowledge alone. For now probably all of us are a mixture of the two although we don't know on every point which is which (faith or knowledge). The difference in our ingredients is why there are so many sincere and true believers who have different beliefs. The knowledge part is fixed, if it is really knowledge, but the belief part is likely in a measure in error. At the end of our course there will be no more error.

 

[B-A-C]

Already every believer has some knowledge and some faith. The end of faith should be found at knowledge alone. For now probably all of us are a mixture of the two although we don't know on every point which is which (faith or knowledge).

There are people who know the Bible.... even Satan knows the Bible... atheists know the Bible...
but knowledge alone won't save you. The Pharisee's saw Jesus do miracles... they KNEW He could do them.
But they didn't have faith in who He was.

On the other side of the coin... there are people who have faith.... but no knowledge.
Hosea 4:6; says God's people perish because of a lack of knowledge.
The people in Matt 7:21-22; had faith... but they didn't have the knowledge of Jesus.
Jesus says "I never knew you". 1st John says if we say that we know Him, but don't keep the
commandments, we are liars. So KNOWING him (know/knowledge) is required in addition
to faith.

Finally 1 Cor 13:2 says if I have all knowledge, and I have all faith, but....
... I have no love... I have nothing.

there are so many sincere and true believers who have different beliefs

sincerity in a wrong belief won't save you. The Pharisee's were sincere in their beliefs. (however right or wrong those beliefs might have been) Muslims, Hindu's and Atheists are sincere in their beliefs as well.
Apparently even some who claim to be Christians will not be saved ( Matt 7:21-22; Matt 25:1-13; etc... )

 

[amadeus2]

There are people who know the Bible.... even Satan knows the Bible... atheists know the Bible...
but knowledge alone won't save you. The Pharisee's saw Jesus do miracles... they KNEW He could do them.
But they didn't have faith in who He was.

Satan and atheists know only the written words and their own or men's conclusions. To know the Word of God requires NOT man's logic or man's brain power. It requires the Holy Spirit quickening of the written or spoken words in the heart of a man. None of us have knowledge to start, not the knowledge that we will have if we endure with Him to the end. We must have faith to start and to move forward... even if it is only a little bit... and that is the pathway to real knowledge, the pathway of faith. The only real knowledge is the knowledge that God gives us as He wills according to our walk by faith. Jesus did not walk by simple faith. This is the advantage that he had over us when he was subject to the temptations to which we are subject. Jesus knew. Jesus never failed to heal a person when He attempted to heal a person because He knew when it was God will for the person to be healed or not. None of us always knows so we do ask in faith for God's healing power to fix that which needs fixing.

On the other side of the coin... there are people who have faith.... but no knowledge.
Hosea 4:6; says God's people perish because of a lack of knowledge.
The people in Matt 7:21-22; had faith... but they didn't have the knowledge of Jesus.
Jesus says "I never knew you". 1st John says if we say that we know Him, but don't keep the
commandments, we are liars. So KNOWING him (know/knowledge) is required in addition
to faith.

All of us have some knowledge in order to step out in faith. An atheist doesn't have faith and will not until he steps out without knowing. When the Lord touches a person's heart the first time the person is then able to take a step in faith...

God wants us to approach Him in faith but sometimes we insist on putting out a fleece or having proof (knowledge) before we will believe (have faith):

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20: 27-29

Jesus gave Thomas his proof, his definite knowledge, but beforehand Thomas lacked faith. He insisted on definite knowledge. This is where we see Gideon in the Book of Judges where after hearing from God he put out a "fleece" not just once, but twice. Eventually God will give us the knowledge and sometimes if we press Him He may give it to us sooner.

As I said, Jesus already had the knowledge and therefore never had to step out in faith. He did not need to step out in faith to be especially blessed. For us faith itself is an essential part of out growth in the things of God.

Finally 1 Cor 13:2 says if I have all knowledge, and I have all faith, but....
... I have no love... I have nothing.

This love, this charity, is indeed the most essential thing. Perhaps this is why some apparent miracles mean nothing to God... or even are an abomination to God. Remember the magicians in Egypt who imitated the works of God through Moses successfully 3 times, but the 4th time they failed. This "charity" in clearly defined in that same chapter you cited [I Cor 13:4-7] but knowing the definition does not put it in our hearts, does it?

sincerity in a wrong belief won't save you. The Pharisee's were sincere in their beliefs. (however right or wrong those beliefs might have been) Muslims, Hindu's and Atheists are sincere in their beliefs as well.
Apparently even some who claim to be Christians will not be saved ( Matt 7:21-22; Matt 25:1-13; etc... )

Even people who sincerely believe in Jesus sometimes do not KNOW him very well and are not working toward knowing Him better. As a result they sometimes moving forward in their erroneous knowledge of scriptures stumble or even fall. The way a person gets to know Jesus better is to partake of Him and the Holy Spirit daily. Consuming the flesh of Jesus daily without also partaking of the quickening Spirit is to consume a dead thing that add nothing good to us. This is what happens to atheist Bible students and sometimes it happens to studious Christians.

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

You mentioned that neither come from us. Excellent point. We (I) often may forgot that our faith is not from us and our love does not have it's roots in us.

Well said.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I have been reading these posts hopefully with some understanding, but even that is not always so easy.


We were started with a measure of faith which came to us from or through or by Jesus, did it not? This measure was available to us or was in in us even at natural birth to our natural mother, was it not? This measure is a measure of Light which is Jesus, but it is only enough to get started.

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

Notice that the above verse says that the Light "lighteth every man"... not just those who have been "born again". This gives us enough access to move on to more through the rebirth, which will allow us, if we pursue it, to finish our course in and with Him

In order to finish with and in Him, we need an increase, which is where we go when we grow and how do we grow?

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

And is not the Word of God, Jesus?

So then we must continue to look to him to be increased... "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..." Heb 12:2

Or to increase our faith,.. no? The apostles were in the right place and asked for an increase from the right source, did they not?

"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith." Luke 17:5

So then the "Fountain" or source of Faith for us is Jesus at the start and all along the Way in order to be in at the finish with Jesus.

When our faith is finished, should that not mean that we have moved from faith to knowledge? Already every believer has some knowledge and some faith. The end of faith should be found at knowledge alone. For now probably all of us are a mixture of the two although we don't know on every point which is which (faith or knowledge). The difference in our ingredients is why there are so many sincere and true believers who have different beliefs. The knowledge part is fixed, if it is really knowledge, but the belief part is likely in a measure in error. At the end of our course there will be no more error.

Dear Brother Amadeus.
As I've talked with Brother BAC I will talk with you about remaining on point to the Post.

The focus I do believe is growth in Faith & Love "as a believer". Not to put into question or define what determines "believer". Unless you are seeking to imply that "error" or lack of "knowledge" as the block to said growth. A rephrasing or a more direct explanation might be in order dear brother.

It seems this is a difficult habit to break for us. For I do include myself. As Brother @Chopper has stated. "You almost had be going down the rabbit trail". I starting to see that the trail is far widder than either Chopper or myself realized!

I will say this dear brother Amadeus. The depth of your post could easily lead one to varied paths and so the response from Brother @BAC. As I have offered to our dear brother BAC. If the response/subject from Brother BAC is of particular interest to you to continue. You are welcome to create another thread to deal with this subject. I will gladly move the posting in question and create the thread for you to continue in that area. If so. Just let me know how you would title it and what forum to place it in.

It is just that this thread's subject "The Fountain of Faith & Love" deserves greater attention and should not be diverted to other areas easily explored elsewhere.

Always with the Love of Jesus Christ Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[B-A-C]

An amazing truth here is that He commands me to love Him with all my heart, and He then supplies to me the love necessary to accomplish this impossible exercise on my own.

Since the love that God expects me to exercise towards Him come from His fountain to me, what about this fleeting thing called FAITH? Jesus says that if we had the faith, the size of a mustard seed, we could move mountains. I've searched thru my whole heart and I haven't found that kind of faith. Can it be the same as LOVE? Lets look....

@Christ4Ever ... I kind of know what you are saying here... but I'm not really sure how this is "off-subject" to this thread? @Chopper asks the question.... "Can faith be the same as love".. yes he goes on to talk about growth... and I agree that growth comes from God... but I also agree with Choppers other point here...

Since the love that God expects me to exercise towards Him come from His fountain to me

The love that God "expects" me to exercise (towards Him... (and others)).. comes from God.
This makes the assumption that this happens automatically... (in which case, there is no need to
worry about growth) ... and that we don't have the capability "not" to love after we are a Christian.

How is that statement.. "off topic"? We are talking about faith, love, and growth here.

 

[amadeus2]

@Christ4Ever Likewise, chastisement received. I will also be good.

In my defense I can only say, perhaps I really did not and do not understand precisely the question or topic in order to properly respond to it. But... then again as some say of the law of men, "ignorance is no excuse". Should that also apply to the things of God? I remain, ignorantly yours, a brother in Christ.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever Likewise, chastisement received. I will also be good.

In my defense I can only say, perhaps I really did not and do not understand precisely the question or topic in order to properly respond to it. But... then again as some say of the law of men, "ignorance is no excuse". Should that also apply to the things of God? I remain, ignorantly yours, a brother in Christ.

Agreed, but everything in its time and place Dear Brother. Things of God are ordered, and not chaotic, though to man it might appear the latter is more prevalent in this worlds workings.

By the way. "ignorant" is not a word I would ever associate with you dear brother. Yet if you still don't know the sentence that jumped out not only to me, but I'm sure to our Brother BAC as well....(oh, and if I'm wrong about what triggered BAC's response. I'm sure he will correct me as well. :thumbsup

The difference in our ingredients is why there are so many sincere and true believers who have different beliefs.

(Emphasis mine.)

Now as far ignorance. If such a group exists I must be a part of it. I fail to see the significance of "Should that also apply to the things of God?" and deviating from the subject of this thread. I am a simple man brother. As I stated before. Sometimes the depth of your responses are a wonder to me. But don't answer this, because I'd be doing the same thing that I've said others are doing here!!!! Which is moving away from the subject at hand! "Fountain of Love & Faith"

God is good and to Him be all the Glory dear brother.

Always in Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Chopper]

I have been reading these posts hopefully with some understanding, but even that is not always so easy.





We were started with a measure of faith which came to us from or through or by Jesus, did it not? This measure was available to us or was in in us even at natural birth to our natural mother, was it not? This measure is a measure of Light which is Jesus, but it is only enough to get started.

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

Notice that the above verse says that the Light "lighteth every man"... not just those who have been "born again". This gives us enough access to move on to more through the rebirth, which will allow us, if we pursue it, to finish our course in and with Him

In order to finish with and in Him, we need an increase, which is where we go when we grow and how do we grow?

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

And is not the Word of God, Jesus?

So then we must continue to look to him to be increased... "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..." Heb 12:2

Or to increase our faith,.. no? The apostles were in the right place and asked for an increase from the right source, did they not?

"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith." Luke 17:5

So then the "Fountain" or source of Faith for us is Jesus at the start and all along the Way in order to be in at the finish with Jesus.

When our faith is finished, should that not mean that we have moved from faith to knowledge? Already every believer has some knowledge and some faith. The end of faith should be found at knowledge alone. For now probably all of us are a mixture of the two although we don't know on every point which is which (faith or knowledge). The difference in our ingredients is why there are so many sincere and true believers who have different beliefs. The knowledge part is fixed, if it is really knowledge, but the belief part is likely in a measure in error. At the end of our course there will be no more error.

Very interesting view on these things my friend. You're probably right when it comes to some kind of natural faith and light when we enter this world thru birth. Faith really is confidence and not really a strange thing. What makes faith a reality is when it's energized by an object. In this case, Jesus.

Christian Psychologists say that every person born has an intuitive knowledge of God. Apparently, when we were born, God placed that knowledge in our spirit, so that when the Holy Spirit begins His drawing process to Jesus, there is that "something" in us that identifies with the Holy Spirit. After that comes a choice, either a positive response or negative.

From what I've learned, over the years, is that for a person to trust what he/she hears about Christ, there has to be an exercise of faith that's beyond a natural ability. That's because the enemy of God, and the enemy of that person to receive Christ, is hard at work to keep that person on his side, lost. Example: Sower and the seed.

I believe that God, at that point gives the person a measure of faith that's equal or better than Satan's attempt to keep the person lost, and as a result of this gift of faith, the person says yes to Christ Jesus. Obviously there are folks who will side with Satan and say not to the Holy Spirit and stay lost.

 

[Chopper]

You mentioned that neither come from us. Excellent point. We (I) often may forgot that our faith is not from us and our love does not have it's roots in us.

Well said.

Thank you for those thoughts. Sheep really are not very smart, and since we are considered "sheep" of the Lord, we really don't have anything to offer, other than what our Master Shepherd endows us with. I refer to my self as a "dirt Bag". I should have used that as my user name, :glasses:.

 

[Chopper]

Now, back to my OP....There are two foundational acts that are very necessary for the advancement of every Christian in their growth to maturity and usefulness for Jesus the Son of God. One is LOVE and the second is FAITH. Neither of these come from us, we only exercise them when we go to the source....Lets look at the source, and praise the source.

It wasn't long, in being a student at Bible College, that I ran into this verse of Scripture....Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."....AND that....Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him:"

FAITH, O my, God places so much emphasis on this thing called Faith. I knew that if He was calling me to serve Him at home or on the mission field somewhere in the world, I'd better get a good grasp on what faith (His kind) really was. It wasn't until I purchased the English Standard Version of the Bible did the word faith become more real to my dirt bag mind....

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (ESV)
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

These two verses say different messages to me. The words "assurance" and "conviction" somehow makes more sense than substance and evidence....That word assurance means to me, it's done!! If, my good friend Christ4Ever assures me that I've written something of value, I don't have to question it, he means it!! It's done!!

Then we have the word conviction which means to me a very solid belief that cannot, under any circumstances. be changed. Now, the things not seen is very important and takes me back to....Psalm 33:9 "For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast."....

Hebrews 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."....Once we understand that God is not like man, in that man needs a substance to invent something worth while. God, on the other hand, creates, not invents, out of nothing. God simply speaks, and what He had in mind, happens.

Now, what do I place my faith in? God's promises. One thing I have learned in my walk with the Holy Spirit, and that is, God doesn't lie!! Nope, not even a little white lie, as they say.

I'm interested in how some of you have come to exercise faith? You must have an interesting story to tell.

I'll write about LOVE next, so stay tuned.

 

[amadeus2]

From what I've learned, over the years, is that for a person to trust what he/she hears about Christ, there has to be an exercise of faith that's beyond a natural ability. That's because the enemy of God, and the enemy of that person to receive Christ, is hard at work to keep that person on his side, lost. Example: Sower and the seed.

Yes, "an exercise of faith that's beyond a natural ability". The sacrifice of Jesus made this a possibility. Whether or not it goes toward God or not is up to us once we received a vision of the possibility. We must move from "through a glass darkly" to "face to face".

I believe that God, at that point gives the person a measure of faith that's equal or better than Satan's attempt to keep the person lost, and as a result of this gift of faith, the person says yes to Christ Jesus. Obviously there are folks who will side with Satan and say not to the Holy Spirit and stay lost.

Yes, again, "...a measure of faith that's equal or better than Satan's attempt..." . This is why I believe that we must partake of the "fountain of Love and Faith" more and more often we eat of the wrong tree. For so long there was no direct access to the Tree of Life, but now the Way is open, but too many who see it are not moving toward it but toward that other tree again and again. Help us all dear Lord!