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The false early rapture timing doctrine

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Member
The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
I believe few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.
 
Active
The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
I believe few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.
That false teaching , the pre trib rapture , has become more important to many than actually following Gods Word. Infact i will say , it has become a new religion unto itself.

Look at the church called the Holy Ghost People in Appalachia. Also known as the snake handlers.

Thier whole church is bassed on one passage in scripture, where Paul was bittin by a poisonous snake and survived.

When i asked them about putting God to the test. They shrugged it off, as if those words ment nothing.

All of scripture has to work together, not just bits and pieces.
 
Active
The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
I believe few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.
I just want to let you know before hand, i have a following of people here that will denounce almost all i say. They may derail this thread as well . May the Wisdom of our Lord Jesus fill you . , Bill
 
Loyal
Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

first I think its a great post and tend to agree with you, however I would say 100% conclusive that timming of the rapture can NOT be determined from scripture, and we should just be preparred to go through it (tribulation)
 
Loyal
I just want to let you know before hand, i have a following of people here that will denounce almost all i say. They may derail this thread as well . May the Wisdom of our Lord Jesus fill you . , Bill
Hi @Bill Maybe I'm one of those who frequently disagrees with you. On this topic' though we are on the same page. To my mind, the whole rapture teaching is a confused mess. We will certainly be here until Jesus returns in glory. That's the consistent and clear teaching of all the New Testament writers, and I don't see any ambiguity about that.
 
Active
Hi @Bill Maybe I'm one of those who frequently disagrees with you. On this topic' though we are on the same page. To my mind, the whole rapture teaching is a confused mess. We will certainly be here until Jesus returns in glory. That's the consistent and clear teaching of all the New Testament writers, and I don't see any ambiguity about that.
I recently was talking about this very issue in another thread. All the examples in the scripture that show God removing his chosen from Calamity always have them going from the frying pan Into the Fire. So to speak. Israelites come out of Egypt with Moses to go into the desert they leave all of their work slavery but they leave all their homes behind all there to go into what the desert so they're not really leaving and going to a prosperous moment they're going from one situation to another situation. Or if you want to use the example of lot with Sodom and Gomorrah you have lot being uprooted quickly and the family being escorted out of Sodom and Gomorrah to start a whole new life and it's not like they're going to the Hilton Hotel they got to start over finding food building a place to live and everything else included so you're going from one again you're going from one situation into another situation. So yes if you want to look at it that Jesus or God is protecting us as Christians well the protection is a fact that we are together that we're going to go through the tribulation together and that God is going to watch over us but we still have to go through it all we still have to survive it we still have to fight you know with everybody for it we still have to deal with the mark of the beast we still have to survive during that whole time so again we're going from one situation into another situation.
 
Member
first I think its a great post and tend to agree with you, however I would say 100% conclusive that timming of the rapture can NOT be determined from scripture, and we should just be preparred to go through it (tribulation)
Scripture is very clear when the rapture is. It tells us it is on the last day. It is not a confusing doctrine to me.

Also what tribulation? I believe here is no end time tribulation period. I think the last week of Daniel (9:27) was fulfilled by Christ (speaking of the messiah not the antichrist).
Or if you are talking about Matthew 24:21 I believe it is speaking of the tribulation that would come at the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.
If you are talking about Revelation 7:14 I believe it is speaking of the entirety of Christian age, from Christ to the end of the world true Christians have been in "great tribulation".
 
Loyal
Scripture is very clear when the rapture is. It tells us it is on the last day. It is not a confusing doctrine to me.

Also what tribulation? I believe here is no end time tribulation period. I think the last week of Daniel (9:27) was fulfilled by Christ (speaking of the messiah not the antichrist).
Or if you are talking about Matthew 24:21 I believe it is speaking of the tribulation that would come at the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.
If you are talking about Revelation 7:14 I believe it is speaking of the entirety of Christian age, from Christ to the end of the world true Christians have been in "great tribulation".
Yes. Remember that the book ofrevelation was written to specific churches at a particular time. They were under great persecution from Rome. Some had paid with their lives.

They were living through the great tribulation. And there have been many great tribulation through history ever since.

The book of revelation was written not to satisfy curiosity about future events, but to help Christians in trouble the hold fast to their hope. Not to abandon their faith in the face of terrible persecution.
 
Active
Remove double post
Just a curiousity , what event caused people to state ' they said to the mountains and the rocks " fall on us and hide us away from the One who sits on the throne and from the anger of the Lamb, for the Great Day of His anger has come and who can survive it " '. Rev 6 : 16 and 17
 
Loyal
Also what tribulation? I believe here is no end time tribulation period.
I do not beleive this has happened yet, and it sure seems like end time tribulation to me.

Revelation 16:1-21
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a corpse, and every living thing died that was in the sea. The third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood. And I heard the angel in charge of the waters say, “Just are you, O Holy One, who is and who was, for you brought these judgments. ..
 
Loyal
Also what tribulation? I believe here is no end time tribulation period. I think the last week of Daniel (9:27) was fulfilled by Christ (speaking of the messiah not the antichrist).
Or if you are talking about Matthew 24:21 I believe it is speaking of t
Most of the things in Matt 24, have not happened yet.

Matt 24:3; As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Certainly the second coming and and end of the age haven't happened yet.

Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Certainly the gospel wasn't preached to the whole world in 70 ad.

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

The second abomination of desolation didn't happen in 70ad.

Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.


There is no record of the days being shorter in 70ad. That hasn't happened yet.
Certainly 70ad is nowhere near as bad as many things that happned after that. (WWII holocaust for example). yet, it says this time will be the worst tribulation of all time.


Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.


There is no record in 70ad of Jesus returning, of starts failing from the sky, and the moon not giving off it's light.
Certainly Jesus didn't come back in great glory and power in 70ad.
 
Active
Yes. Remember that the book ofrevelation was written to specific churches at a particular time. They were under great persecution from Rome. Some had paid with their lives.
When you read those letters to the 7 churches do you not find yourself in one of them? Those letters were written to specific churches at the time but also to us now,
if not then how could any one of the elect be an overcomer unless these same problems exist for us in this time to overcome?
 
Loyal
And the churches were / are made up of people. The churches were being analized as to their positives and negatives.
 
Loyal
When you read those letters to the 7 churches do you not find yourself in one of them? Those letters were written to specific churches at the time but also to us now,
if not then how could any one of the elect be an overcomer unless these same problems exist for us in this time to overcome?
Of course. But we should never forget that in the New Testament we are 'reading someone else's mail'. Good Bible reading asks. 1. What does this passage say? 2. What did it mean for the people it was written to? 3. What can I learn from it today?
 
Active
Of course. But we should never forget that in the New Testament we are 'reading someone else's mail'. Good Bible reading asks. 1. What does this passage say? 2. What did it mean for the people it was written to? 3. What can I learn from it today?
Yes I fully agree
 
Loyal
Of course. But we should never forget that in the New Testament we are 'reading someone else's mail'. Good Bible reading asks. 1. What does this passage say? 2. What did it mean for the people it was written to? 3. What can I learn from it today?

The entire Bible is God's Word and meant for All to read. John 3:16 "For God so loved the World......" not just people living in a certain time in history. And, yes, what Does any passage we're reading say -- to Me -- God speaks to us Through His Word. We read, learn, share.
 
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