The end times: revisted

[B-A-C]

This thread isn't really about the tribulation or the rapture, but rather the things leading up to these.
Jesus said there will be signs we can see. There are similar passages to the one below in Matthew and Mark, but we
will start with Luke.

Luke 21:7; They questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?"
Luke 21:8; And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.

This is of course about "false Christs". Many will says they are the Messiah, they are the Christ. But Jesus warns here, do not follow them.

Luke 21:9; "When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately."

When you hear of wars and disturbances... it seems there will be wars. But Jesus says don't be afraid. (terrified).
He says these things must take place.... BUT ... the end does NOT follow immediately.
It seems even though wars will happen, that other things will happen after the wars. The wars do not end everything "immediately".

Luke 21:10; Then He continued by saying to them, "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,

Nation will rise against nation.. kingdom will rise against kingdom. This could possibly be economic wars, but
likely it will include actual warfare.

Luke 21:11; and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

There will be great earthquakes, not just in one place.. but in "various" places. Also plagues and famines.
There have always been earthquakes, plagues and famines for thousands of years. But these will be worse than any before.
There will be "terrors" and "signs from heaven".. but it is unknown what those signs might be.

Luke 21:12; "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake.
Luke 21:13; "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.

Then Jesus steps back a little and says "but before these things happen"... BEFORE... they will bring you before
the governing authorities, and you will be thrown into prison. But will be a good time to testify, to witness to others,
to spread the gospel. Indeed, when the events prophesied in the Bible start to unfold, it will be hard to deny
the power of God's Word, it will be easily seen by some people.

Luke 21:14; "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
Luke 21:15; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.

Don't try to think up arguments to protect yourself in advance. The Holy Spirit will tell us what to say when the time comes.

Luke 21:16; "But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death,
Luke 21:17; and you will be hated by all because of My name.

Even your own families will betray you. During the regime of the 3rd Reich in Nazi Germany, children were trained
in schools run by the government to snitch on family members who opposed the Nazi's. Amazingly, overwhelmingly
almost all of them did,

Luke 21:18; "Yet not a hair of your head will perish.

This is perhaps the most comforting verse in this entire passage. Not a single hair on your head will perish.

Luke 21:19; "By your endurance you will gain your lives.

If we "endure to the end". We will gain our lives. Likely this means eternal life as well.

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Mark's version has a few more details.

Mark 13:4; "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?"
Mark 13:5; And Jesus began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Mark 13:6; "Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many.
Mark 13:7; "When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end.
Mark 13:8; "For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

Most of this is similar to what Luke said in the first post above, a couple things that are different is that the false Christs.. "will mislead many". Even today, how many are following a false Jesus, a false Christ. The other thing added here, is Jesus says these are just "the beginning of birth pangs". These are the early stages before everything else happens.

Mark 13:9; "But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.

This doesn't say "prison" like Luke does, but it does say we could be whipped or flogged. Remember Jesus is telling this to the disciples, they were obviously saved believers.

Mark 13:10; "The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

There is much debate over whether this has actually happened yet, and even more debate about interpreting this verse.
"preached to all the nations". Some say, there are parts of the world where the gospel hasn't been preached,
Parts of Africa, the Phillipines, the Amazon jungle, and perhaps this is true. But is the more correct translation.. "all the nations".
All of these nations have had the gospel revealed to them already. Even if every place in that nation hasn't yet.

Mark 13:11; "When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.

Luke doesn't specifically say it is the Holy Spirit that will tell us what to say, but Mark does.

Mark 13:12; "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death.
Mark 13:13; "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Again... those who "endure" to the end will be saved. It seems some will want to give in, and give up.

Mark 13:14; "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

The abomination of desolation is mentioned in Daniel 11:31; and Daniel 12:11; Daniel 12:11 says it will last roughly 3 1/2 years.
What is was isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible. Jewish tradition says Antiochus Epiphanes III, desecrated the temple
by sacrificing swine (the most unclean animal in Judaism) on the altar. There are some ancient documents that support this.

Mark 13:15; "The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house;
Mark 13:16; and the one who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat.
Mark 13:17; "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Mark 13:18; "But pray that it may not happen in the winter.
Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.

Now we get to the great tribulation. "a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will" (again). There have been world wars, famines, the black plague, the inquisition, great earthquakes that have killed thousands of people, over the last centuries... but none of these things will be as bad as this.
Jesus says nothing like this tribulation has ever happened since the beginning of the world, and will never happen again after this.

Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Mark 13:21; "And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him;
Mark 13:22; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:23; "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

This last paragraph causes much speculation over who the elect are. Most believe this simply means "Christians". But we have a few here on TalkJesus who believe this simply means biological Jews who will get saved during the tribulation. Some believe these anyone who get saved during the tribulation, Jewish or not.
Depending on who you think they are, depends on whether you believe in a pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib rapture.
Obviously this can't be "all Christians" if they are raptured before the tribulation.

... to be continued ...

 

[Dave M]

Matthew 24:15-22
“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! ...


I was reading in Mark this morning about when the desolation and abomination of the temple takes place, that Jesus says they better not go home. But flee and basically take nothing with you.

I got to thinking,,, am I prepared to leave everything and be homeless?? because that what that scripture is saying to me.

 

[B-A-C]

Of course we should include Matthew's version as well. It gives a few more clues.

Matt 24:3; As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Matt 24:4; And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Matt 24:5; "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:6; "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7; "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Matt 24:8; "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

Up until this point, it's pretty much the same stuff Luke and Mark have been saying.

Matt 24:9; "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Luke said they would imprison you. Mark said they would flog you. Now Matthew says they will kill you.

Matt 24:10; "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

At that time... many will fall away. This is similar to 1 Tim 4:1;

Matt 24:11; "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:12; "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

I don't think I've ever seen a time in my life (I'm past 6 decades old) where there was more lawlessness, and
a time when people's love has "grown cold".

Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Jesus says here... the one who endures to the end... "he will be saved".

Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16; then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Matt 24:17; "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18; "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19; "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20; "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

As in Mark, Jesus says this will be the worst time of tribulation the world has ever faced. There never was a worse time before this, and there will never be a worse time afterwards.

Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

I can't help but think of Mormons when I read this passage. Supposedly Joseph Smith met Moroni secretly out in the woods to reveal a new message to Christians. Yet this passage says if anyone says I met him out in the woods or somewhere in secret, don't believe them.

Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

When Jesus returns, it won't be a secret thing just a few know about, but it will be like lightning flashing across the sky, the whole world will see it.

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Paul also gives some signs a few different places. Here is one of those passages.

2Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

This is an important passage concerning the timing of things. Paul says "Let no one deceive you".
The (rapture/second coming - depending how you believe) will NOT happen until....
First the great apostasy will happen. Many in the church will fall way. But second the man of lawlessness will be revealed.
We will know fore sure, with certainty, who the beast is before Jesus returns or the rapture takes place.
And we know for certain Jesus wont return until these things happen first.

2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

There is much speculation and debate about who/what the beast might be, but that's for another thread.
This thread is about the signs of the coming of the end times, the last days.

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

2Tim 3:1; But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2Tim 3:2; For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3; unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
2Tim 3:4; treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

If this doesn't describe the current state of man, I don't know what does.

2Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

Some of these people even claim to be believers, or Christians, but they deny the "power" of God.

2Tim 3:6; For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,
2Tim 3:7; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

There are a great number of people like this, even some here on TalkJesus. They know some Bible verses, but they ignore
others that would disprove their theology. They are never able to come to the full truth.

2Tim 3:8; Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
2Tim 3:9; But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.

We don't know for sure who Jannes and Jambres were, but many Bible scholars think this was likely the Pharaohs magicians.

Exod 7:11; Exod 7:22; etc...

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

2Pet 3:3; Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
2Pet 3:4; and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
2Pet 3:5; For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,

Peter also mentions the "last days". I personally feel this is the biggest sin of the world today, even amongst some who
call themselves "Christians". Unbelief. Oh they say they believe in a higher power of sorts, maybe even God, maybe even Jesus.
But He isn't ever coming back, some believe it already happened. Some believe it is only a spiritual manifestation.
They believe there is nothing to worry about, no judgment, no second coming... Jesus isn't coming back.