The difference between repentance and good deeds.

[DHC]

It's not me saying these scriptures=it's Jesus, the sole authority of the Bible and it's writings.
It is not legalistic to obey God's Law.
Legalism usually applies to the strict traditions of men strictly for ceremonial sake.We don't want to be like the Pharisees Jesus warned.
If you do actions that violate the 10 Commandments you will not be saved Paul said under the New Covenant- 1 Cor 6:9-10
I know we are saved by God's grace but how do you apply God's laws which defines the standards of righteousness to your life?
If keeping the 10 Commandments is legalism then God's descriptions of His church and saints is wrong- " Here is the patience of the saints:here are they that keep the Commandments..." Rev 14:12
If anybody is legalistic it would be those that keep the commandments and traditions of men like easter and christmas.

Hello Judge not.

You said. "It is not legalistic to obey God's Law".

Legalism is the belief that obedience to the law is the fundamental requirement of God for His followers. That not breaking the law in the flesh is
what Godliness actually means. If you obey the ten commandments as a lifestyle then you are saved. A simple benchmark of laws established by God,
failure to obey them is the distinction between the true believers and the false believers. To obey Jesus is to obey the ten commandments.

There does arise a very serious problem on a number of levels with this legalistic interpretation.

When Paul lists the deeds of the flesh, or sins of the flesh, it is immediately evident that Paul is identifying sin which the law does not mention.
Paul categorizes sin which have no basis within the framework of the law. For example "outbursts of anger", there is not a literal, specific law
against anger in the Ten words. Well how does the legalistic deal with this shortfall in the law? Well, by expanding the literal interpretation of
the ten commandments into a much broader definition of the law.

So the legalist will choose the law "You shall not murder". Anger then will be seen to be covered simply by the stretching of this commandment.
In fact the legalist will quote;

Matthew 5:21-22
You have heard that the ancients were told, You shall not commit murder...
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty...

Here is the critical problem we have, is Jesus expanding the very law itself or is Jesus going beneath the law and exposing the corrupt flesh of man?

Is Jesus really preaching obedience to the expanded law or is Jesus announcing that the flesh of mankind is deeply flawed.
So deeply flawed that the flesh is never able to obey any law. These two alternate views on the purpose of the law in the
Christian life is the gulf that separates many churches. A theological war between these two views started early in church history
and is still being fought today. A fascinating division between two sides and make no mistake, there is only one correct view.

 

[Barny]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, and that's because you see "sin" only in terms of bad behavior.
1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:6-9, Rom 6:7, Rom 6:2, John 8:36, 1Pet 4:18, Rom 8:33, etc, all contradict the claim that Christians "sin".

Consider again my question from my previous post.
What "sin" can be charged against a Christian? We've been justified by God.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

We cannot be charged with transgression of the law (1 John 3:4,) as we're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1 Tim 1:9
We cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1 John 5:17,) as we are righteous. Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We cannot be charged with the sin of unbelief in Jesus (John 16:9), as we do believe in Jesus. We do not turn back to the law for righteousness, which is unbelief.

In Rev 2:26-28 - Jesus says " To him who overcomes and does my will TO THE END. I will give authority over the nations...."
Overcoming what? The struggle against the power of sin over us while we are in the flesh -overcoming is a constant battle not a one time event that frees us from sin even with the help of God's spirit.

What do we overcome and how do we overcome?
1John 5:4,5
whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—ourfaith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is how we overcome. Believe in Jesus. If we endure to the end believing in Jesus.

Is it possible for Christians to sin?
It is not only possible, but it is highly likely.
Can anyone claim they have never sinned since becoming a converted Christian?
We are still babes in Christ not yet born of God

Christians are born of God.
1John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

How can a Christian sin?
If we turn back to the law then we make ourselves a sinner.
Gal: 2:18
if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness through the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner.

And to turn back to the law is unbelief in Jesus.
Even mixing grace with works of the law is unbelief. We cannot mix grace with works of the law.
Rom 11:6
if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Doctrines that mix grace with works of the law are lukewarm and it's followers rejected by God, Rev 3:15,16.

It's not all over when you begin a Christian life-it's just beginning.
The New Testament is filled with a series of constant reminders of the ways Satan tempts the faith of Christian people.
There are more warnings against false prophets and teachings than I have space here for.
If there were no reasons why we should fear sinning why do we have to put on the good fight-1Tim 6:12

I agree, (although we both differ somewhat on what the good fight of faith is about).

For some, the good fight of faith is about good behavior/obeying the law.
But this is exactly what Satan wants us to focus on.
There are many preaching a false gospel that mixes grace with works of the law. They say we're saved by grace but, if we don't live a good enough lifestyle in obeying the law (some even insist on perfect obedience to the law), then we're condemned/lost.
This is exactly what Satan, the accuser, wants. He wants us to rebuild the law in our lives so that he can accuse us of sin.
And remember Gal 2:18.
if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness through the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner.

I agree with you that scriptures contains many warnings about false prophets and teachings. These warnings are about turning back to the law to prove righteousness. And even the lukewarm doctrine of grace + works of the law, is rejected, Rev 3:16.

You quoted 1Tim 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

What's that good confession?
Rom 10:9
if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

These are our works. Believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
This is God's will for us. Believe in Jesus, John 6:40.
And it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

Note also 1Tim 6:14 regarding the commandment to fight the good fight of faith in believing in Jesus.
that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

Continue to believe in Jesus (and do not turn back to the law in any way whatsoever to prove righteousness).

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

You said. "It is not legalistic to obey God's Law".

Legalism is the belief that obedience to the law is the fundamental requirement of God for His followers. That not breaking the law in the flesh is
what Godliness actually means. If you obey the ten commandments as a lifestyle then you are saved. A simple benchmark of laws established by God,
failure to obey them is the distinction between the true believers and the false believers. To obey Jesus is to obey the ten commandments.

There does arise a very serious problem on a number of levels with this legalistic interpretation.

When Paul lists the deeds of the flesh, or sins of the flesh, it is immediately evident that Paul is identifying sin which the law does not mention.
Paul categorizes sin which have no basis within the framework of the law. For example "outbursts of anger", there is not a literal, specific law
against anger in the Ten words. Well how does the legalistic deal with this shortfall in the law? Well, by expanding the literal interpretation of
the ten commandments into a much broader definition of the law.

So the legalist will choose the law "You shall not murder". Anger then will be seen to be covered simply by the stretching of this commandment.
In fact the legalist will quote;

Matthew 5:21-22
You have heard that the ancients were told, You shall not commit murder...
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty...

Here is the critical problem we have, is Jesus expanding the very law itself or is Jesus going beneath the law and exposing the corrupt flesh of man?

Is Jesus really preaching obedience to the expanded law or is Jesus announcing that the flesh of mankind is deeply flawed.
So deeply flawed that the flesh is never able to obey any law. These two alternate views on the purpose of the law in the
Christian life is the gulf that separates many churches. A theological war between these two views started early in church history
and is still being fought today. A fascinating division between two sides and make no mistake, there is only one correct view.

Sin in the Bible is defined as the transgression of the Law.
Jesus emphasized to His disciples that His mission and purpose was to add to the intended meaning of the Ten Commandments.
Jesus showed that His teachings explain the required behavior summarized in the Law.
Too many people see the 10 Commandments as a list of don'ts rather than as your standard for conduct.
The first four show how we should relate to our maker and the other six define the essentials for right relationships with each other.
They are to be a blessing and benefit to the well being of mankind and are guidelines for better living.
Obeying God's commandments is putting into practice the love of God.
Disobeying them sets the measure by which He will judge us.

 

[james1523]

Sin in the Bible is defined as the transgression of the Law.
Jesus emphasized to His disciples that His mission and purpose was to add to the intended meaning of the Ten Commandments.
Jesus showed that His teachings explain the required behavior summarized in the Law.
Too many people see the 10 Commandments as a list of don'ts rather than as your standard for conduct.
The first four show how we should relate to our maker and the other six define the essentials for right relationships with each other.
They are to be a blessing and benefit to the well being of mankind and are guidelines for better living.
Obeying God's commandments is putting into practice the love of God.
Disobeying them sets the measure by which He will judge us.

Hello JudgeNot. What is your understanding of the law of the Spirit of life? in Romans 8:2.
There is much talk about the written commandments but little talk about the indwelling Holy Spirit. Now that Christians have received the Holy Spirit, the way to keep the commandments is to follow the Spirit:
Rom :8:4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

To disobey the 10 commandments is to disobey the voice of the indwelling Spirit, which operates according to the principle of life, not according to the principle of the written law. In other words if we follow that which gives us life, then we will keep the commandments, and in fact our righteousness will exceed the Pharisees because the inward desires of our heart will also be dealt with by the flow of life within us.

To put the commandments into practice is to deaden the flesh and live by the Spirit by setting the mind on the Spirit. Then we are enabled to keep the commandments by Christ who is our life, rather than our own self efforts. As we set our mind on the Spirit our soul will be transformed into the mind of Christ, and our mortal bodies will receive life. So even our thought life and our emotions and will, will be transformed into a nature which keeps the commandments.

There is law of life (Spirit) and law of death (letters). It's possible to keep the 10 commandments but still be in death. In other words, have the outward form (of keeping the commandments) but not having the inner reality (of the indwelling Spirit giving life to our spirit, soul and mortal bodies).
This is like in Luke 18:21-23... a man kept all the commandments Christ said he needed to, but Christ told him that he had to follow Him. Today we follow the Spirit of Christ and by following the Spirit we keep the commandments.

God does not want us to keep any of His commandments by our natural self effort. Job was a righteous man according to Himself, but he lacked the knowledge of God. It was only after he had his God-experience that Job was able to live a righteous life according to his vision and experience of God, rather than merely following a set of rules. God wants to transform us from natural people into spiritual people, and obeying the 10 commandments in ourselves and not by following the law of Spirit of life, does not bring this transformation.

 

[DHC]

Sin in the Bible is defined as the transgression of the Law.

Hello Judge not.

Thank you for the reply.

I must analyse your reply line by line.

Well Judge not, I would ask you to consider the following scripture.

Your first statement is a favored statement made by the legal fraternity.

Here it is, "Sin in the Bible is defined as the transgression of the Law."

A great scripture for someone raised and knowledgeable of the Mosaic Law.

Not much use for a Gentile with no familiarity with the Mosaic law!

There are in fact a number of other definitions of sin, and here they are.

1 John 5
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

And another definition Judge not.

Romans 14
23...whatever is not from faith is sin.

Yet another definition.

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Last but not least, is man's creative effort in regards to sin.

Romans 1
30...,inventors of evil,...

There are other definitions but for the sake of brevity I will not include those.

Sin reaches far beyond the ten commandments judge not. As the lines quoted above
testify. Also, I do strongly object to the statement that the ten commandments must be
obeyed. As we are well aware that the literal Exodus reading is misleading. Jesus
expanded the law to levels which our flesh could never obey. So the law cannot ever be
quoted from Exodus 20. It must be quoted with the newer expanded version 1.1 as given
by Jesus. Otherwise, you are simply misleading people into a very dangerous, false security.

I will if possible deal with the second line of your post tomorrow.

 

[Glow]

Thank you all for your responses. They have been very helpful in determining the definition.

I don't agree with some aspects of your post, however, judge not. Although I understand that repentance is indeed essential for salvation, and it continues throughout the rest of the Christian walk, I don't believe that we, as Christians, have to continually look back on the Ten Commandments for salvation. Salvation is found in Jesus Christ alone. It is only through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, taking the wrath of God in our place, that we are able to have a right standing with God. Although it is certainly true that repentance is essential, and although it is certainly true that a change will occur in a person's life once they receive the Holy Spirit, looking back at the Ten Commandments and forcing yourself to follow them is not what the Bible declares the way of salvation. I would urge you to read Romans chapters 1 through 3. God bless you.