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The Catholic origins of futurism and the secret rapture teaching

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Futurism is forever future.

Samuel Prideaux Tregelles
(1813-1875), formerly with the Plymouth Brethren, he became Presbyterian, and published The Hope Of Christ's Second Coming in 1864, in which he gave the following testimony on the origin of the secret rapture:

"I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an "utterance" in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin." -- Footnote 1 for Chapter 9.

The catholic teachers of the vatican who's pamphlets spawned both prophetic futurism's ever future antichrist and the secret rapture theory/ teaching / doctrinal divisional device, are talked about in more detail at the link below, which includes the above excerpt.
Also a favourite at the rapture ready forums is shockingly David Hunt
This also suprised me, knowing what he teaches about the roman universal body!
  • Dave Hunt (The Berean Call) - author of A Woman Rides the Beast, remarkably enough, teaches the secret rapture and future antichrist.
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
 
Member

THE REIGN OF ANTICHRIST




ANTICHRIST IS MOVED EITHER FORWARD OR BACKWARD IN TIME

Ribera's Futurism Puts the Antichrist Into A Future Three and One-half Literal Years.
Alcazar's Preterism Identifies the Antichrist as Nero.
Both of Them Put Antichrist Outside the Middle Ages and the Reformation Period,
Identified by Protestant Historicists as Antichrist's Reign of 1260 Prophetic Years.

Now the truly amazing part of all this is that the Futurist theory dominates Protestant teaching today. About all you hear or read about today is the yet-to-appear antichrist, who will be unveiled in the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week, when he declares himself to be God in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That scenario, as you can now see, is directly traceable back to the pen of the Jesuit Francisco Ribera. Note what one Protestant writer had to say over one hundred years ago:

Next we come to consider the time of the rise of the Futurist system as we now have it, and the occasion which led to it.
So great a hold did the conviction that the Papacy was the Antichrist gain upon the minds of men, that Rome at last saw she must bestir herself, and try, by putting forth other systems of interpretation, to counteract the identification of the Papacy with the Antichrist.
Accordingly, towards the close of the century of the Reformation, two of her most learned doctors set themselves to the task, each endeavouring by different means to accomplish the same end, namely, that of diverting men's minds from perceiving the fulfilment of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the Papal system. The Jesuit Alcasar devoted himself to bring into prominence the Preterist method of interpretation, which we have already briefly noticed, and thus endeavoured to show that the prophecies of Antichrist were fulfilled before the Popes ever ruled in Rome, and therefore could not apply to the Papacy. On the other hand the Jesuit Ribera tried to set aside the application of these prophecies to the Papal Power by bringing out the Futurist system, which asserts that these prophecies refer properly not to the career of the Papacy, but to that of some future supernatural individual, who is yet to appear, and to continue in power for three and a half years. Thus, as Alford says, the Jesuit Ribera, about A.D. 1580, may be regarded as the Founder of the Futurist system in modern times.
It is a matter for deep regret that those who hold and advocate the Futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist. It has been well said that "Futurism tends to obliterate the brand put by the Holy Spirit upon Popery." More especially is this to be deplored at a time when the Papal Antichrist seems to be making an expiring effort to regain his former hold on men's minds. Now once again, as at the Reformation, it is especially necessary that his true character should be recognized, by all who would be faithful to "the testimony of Jesus."

From Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place In It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation, by Joseph Tanner, published in London by Hodder and Stoughton, 1898, pages 16,17.
 
Member
It is a matter for deep regret that those who hold and advocate the Futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist. It has been well said that "Futurism tends to obliterate the brand put by the Holy Spirit upon Popery." More especially is this to be deplored at a time when the Papal Antichrist seems to be making an expiring effort to regain his former hold on men's minds. Now once again, as at the Reformation, it is especially necessary that his true character should be recognized, by all who would be faithful to "the testimony of Jesus."
From Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place In It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation, by Joseph Tanner, published in London by Hodder and Stoughton, 1898, pages 16,17.


THE MIRACLE OF UNITY HAS ALREADY BEGUN
The miracle of unity has already begun — Communauté du Chemin Neuf

Pope call for unity to seventh day adventists
Pope Francis Meets With Charismatic Church Leaders To Plan Return To Mother Church ⋆ Now The End Begins : Now The End Begins

'We are brothers,' Pope stresses in message to Pentecostals

Full text: Pope Francis’s message to Armenians

HOME ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY JUSTIN WELBY AND POPE FRANCIS’ MISSION TO TRANSFORM THE CHURCH IS JUST BEGINNING

Megachurch Pastor Rick Warren Joins Pope Francis in Support of Common Mission

Kenneth copeland joins with pope for unity!

Assemblies of God
Methodists
All of them join with the pope?


I cant find any who have not!

It is the leadership
Everywhere in every denomination
all leadership apostate?
Not one left true?

And now he exalts himself above even the false gods
Teachings
POPE FRANCIS NOW URGES ALL RELIGIONS TO UNITE
Geoffrey Grider | March 21, 2013
Pope Francis Now Urges All Religions To Unite : Now The End Begins


 
Member
The apostacy the falling away comes first

2 Thessalonians 2
King James Bible
The Man of Sin

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Firm

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.




2 Thessalonians 2 KJV
 
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WATCH: Was This Really a Miracle? Pope Francis Turns Vial of Blood Into Liquid
JESSILYN JUSTICE
WATCH: Was This Really a Miracle? Pope Francis Turns Vial of Blood Into Liquid — Charisma News

In the presence of pope francis
Reports are flooding in across the globe, claiming Pope Francis has performed a miracle.

The Cardinal of Naples called it a miracle when a vial of blood suddenly became liquid in the pope's presence.

Is this deserving of "miracle" status? Watch the video and sound off.



The Charisma Podcast Network is now live. Featuring a variety of programs including news, leadership, inspiring stories, women's topics, sports, and even more.



Whos coming is according to the working of satan with all power signs and lying wonders
He deceives those on earth
Because they received not the love of the truth

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
 
Member
When you hear the popes use the name of jesus christ
And say they believe he came in the flesh and was a man.
Understand this

The outcome of the catholic heresy of the immaculate conception of Mary doctrine,
Results in a jesus born of a woman not as and not of all flesh, for all flesh has sinned and fallen short of the Glory Of God, But for Mary , who the doctrine renders " born without sin" according to the papacies immaculate conception of Mary false Doctrine.
And so Catholicism actually preaches and teaches a jesus Christ birn of a woman not come in the flesh, but come in strange flesh , outside all flesh and unique flesh.
Not as a daughter of eve.
And so the Roman Catholic body that is presided over by all its popes through the ages, is antichrist,

Jesus was born of God
Yet the teaching on identifying the spirit of antichrist and the spirit of truth
In regards to teaching on and beleif in the true Jesus christ, The Son Of God.
john Specifically refers to the flesh of jesus christ
and the importance of recognising that flesh human nature,
He came in the flesh; yet never sinned.
He shared all our human flesh weakness; was tempted like us in every way, and was Like us in all things ; but sin,
Jesus never sinned.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh he inherited from Mary,
The body prepared fron him.
Mary, who like all flesh had sinned and fallen short of the Glory Of God.

But for the catholic Mary, this truth is rejected
and she is replaced with a false mary who never sinned.
This is the deceptive nature of the catholic church, that they combe in and use his name yet subtle as the serpent the catholic church and its papacy teach and actually preach another christ , another gospel , another jesus.
A jesus christ who did not come in the flesh!



 
Loyal
Futurism is forever future.

Samuel Prideaux Tregelles
(1813-1875), formerly with the Plymouth Brethren, he became Presbyterian, and published The Hope Of Christ's Second Coming in 1864, in which he gave the following testimony on the origin of the secret rapture:

"I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an "utterance" in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin." -- Footnote 1 for Chapter 9.

The catholic teachers of the vatican who's pamphlets spawned both prophetic futurism's ever future antichrist and the secret rapture theory/ teaching / doctrinal divisional device, are talked about in more detail at the link below, which includes the above excerpt.
Also a favourite at the rapture ready forums is shockingly David Hunt
This also suprised me, knowing what he teaches about the roman universal body!
  • Dave Hunt (The Berean Call) - author of A Woman Rides the Beast, remarkably enough, teaches the secret rapture and future antichrist.
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
I'm sorry Listening....I really don't understand what you mean by "secret rapture". Could you explain?
 
Loyal
Futurism is forever future.

Samuel Prideaux Tregelles
(1813-1875), formerly with the Plymouth Brethren, he became Presbyterian, and published The Hope Of Christ's Second Coming in 1864, in which he gave the following testimony on the origin of the secret rapture:

"I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an "utterance" in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin." -- Footnote 1 for Chapter 9.

The catholic teachers of the vatican who's pamphlets spawned both prophetic futurism's ever future antichrist and the secret rapture theory/ teaching / doctrinal divisional device, are talked about in more detail at the link below, which includes the above excerpt.
Also a favourite at the rapture ready forums is shockingly David Hunt
This also suprised me, knowing what he teaches about the roman universal body!
  • Dave Hunt (The Berean Call) - author of A Woman Rides the Beast, remarkably enough, teaches the secret rapture and future antichrist.
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
Listening You seem to be quite hostile to the Romanist church. How is this church any worse than other religions? Islam is an extremely violent religion which kills millions. Mormonism refuses people the right to think for themselves and subjugates women as well as other things. Jehovah's Witnesses teach total blasphemy. Jesus was/is a god?

Please tell me how one lying religion is worse than another? How is one sin worse than another? Sin is sin. Period.

There are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world while the muslim population is around 1.6 billion. already larger and faster growing than the Romanist church yet you target the Romanist church. I don't understand your point.

I used to be a salesman. I was a good one. One of the first things I learned about sales in that you NEVER show a potential customer the faults of his own product. Show them the good points of your product. He'll see for himself that he should upgrade to yours. If you point out the failings of his product, the one he chose, all he hears is you telling him how stupid he is. My point. The Romanist church is evil, Islam is evil, all religions are evil, of the devil, but all religions are from Satan. All the devil has done is to create a menu of lies that people can choose from. Lies designed to tickle the ears of people. One lie is no worse than another. Why? They all lead the people to hell. There is only one truth. Jesus!!

May I suggest that you concentrate on spreading the truth and leave off showing people the folly of their own beliefs? Show them the truth and they WILL see the folly on their own. Try showing them God's love instead of judgment?
 
Member

THE REIGN OF ANTICHRIST




ANTICHRIST IS MOVED EITHER FORWARD OR BACKWARD IN TIME

Ribera's Futurism Puts the Antichrist Into A Future Three and One-half Literal Years.
Alcazar's Preterism Identifies the Antichrist as Nero.
Both of Them Put Antichrist Outside the Middle Ages and the Reformation Period,
Identified by Protestant Historicists as Antichrist's Reign of 1260 Prophetic Years.

Now the truly amazing part of all this is that the Futurist theory dominates Protestant teaching today. About all you hear or read about today is the yet-to-appear antichrist, who will be unveiled in the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week, when he declares himself to be God in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That scenario, as you can now see, is directly traceable back to the pen of the Jesuit Francisco Ribera. Note what one Protestant writer had to say over one hundred years ago:

Next we come to consider the time of the rise of the Futurist system as we now have it, and the occasion which led to it.
So great a hold did the conviction that the Papacy was the Antichrist gain upon the minds of men, that Rome at last saw she must bestir herself, and try, by putting forth other systems of interpretation, to counteract the identification of the Papacy with the Antichrist.
Accordingly, towards the close of the century of the Reformation, two of her most learned doctors set themselves to the task, each endeavouring by different means to accomplish the same end, namely, that of diverting men's minds from perceiving the fulfilment of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the Papal system. The Jesuit Alcasar devoted himself to bring into prominence the Preterist method of interpretation, which we have already briefly noticed, and thus endeavoured to show that the prophecies of Antichrist were fulfilled before the Popes ever ruled in Rome, and therefore could not apply to the Papacy. On the other hand the Jesuit Ribera tried to set aside the application of these prophecies to the Papal Power by bringing out the Futurist system, which asserts that these prophecies refer properly not to the career of the Papacy, but to that of some future supernatural individual, who is yet to appear, and to continue in power for three and a half years. Thus, as Alford says, the Jesuit Ribera, about A.D. 1580, may be regarded as the Founder of the Futurist system in modern times.
It is a matter for deep regret that those who hold and advocate the Futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist. It has been well said that "Futurism tends to obliterate the brand put by the Holy Spirit upon Popery." More especially is this to be deplored at a time when the Papal Antichrist seems to be making an expiring effort to regain his former hold on men's minds. Now once again, as at the Reformation, it is especially necessary that his true character should be recognized, by all who would be faithful to "the testimony of Jesus."

From Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place In It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation, by Joseph Tanner, published in London by Hodder and Stoughton, 1898, pages 16,17.
Why do you get so caught up on the Anti-Christ. If you truly have Christ in your heart Non can harm you. Yes we will go through tribulation but with Christ within us everything will be fine that is why you must have faith and to have more faith Pray and read his word you will know him better and your faith will be strengthened. We (any true christian) all know that with every tick of the clock the hour draws nearer but we are also told even Christ does not know the hour only the Father. So trust the Father at the appointed time what is meant to be will be.
 
Loyal
Why do you get so caught up on the Anti-Christ. If you truly have Christ in your heart Non can harm you. Yes we will go through tribulation but with Christ within us everything will be fine that is why you must have faith and to have more faith Pray and read his word you will know him better and your faith will be strengthened. We (any true christian) all know that with every tick of the clock the hour draws nearer but we are also told even Christ does not know the hour only the Father. So trust the Father at the appointed time what is meant to be will be.
You can go through the tribulation if you want to...I'm not. I'm going in the rapture. Or the catching up of the bride, If you prefer.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 (CJB)

8 But since we belong to the day, let us stay sober, putting on trust and love as a breastplate and the hope of being delivered as a helmet. 9 For God has not intended that we should experience his fury, but that we should gain deliverance through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, 10 who died on our behalf so that whether we are alive or dead, we may live along with him.
 
Member
You can go through the tribulation if you want to...I'm not. I'm going in the rapture. Or the catching up of the bride, If you prefer.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 (CJB)

8 But since we belong to the day, let us stay sober, putting on trust and love as a breastplate and the hope of being delivered as a helmet. 9 For God has not intended that we should experience his fury, but that we should gain deliverance through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, 10 who died on our behalf so that whether we are alive or dead, we may live along with him.
I guess that means he loved me and you more than the apostles, because didn't all except John the beloved go to their deaths for Christ. We are called to pickup our Cross to suffer not just for any old reason but for Christ that includes dyeing. His will be done not MINE, if he says I must go through tribulation then so be it. I say look at this very moment to our brother Christians in the Middle East who are being tortured and murder all for His Name.
 
Member
I Came to talk Jesus to do that talk Jesus to me Jesus is The way The Truth and the Light but Mostly Jesus is Love. But I am not seeing that Here. I am see people give into old hatred. I pray for you to the Lord Our God.
Forgive them Lord They have been taught to twist hate from your Loving words. They truly are good people, but they want your word on Their terms. I ask dear Jesus to come into their hearts show them that Your True Love will conquer all. Mary Mother of Jesus I ask that you pray for them to the Lord our God that they learn the true meaning of your role that you are not God. I ask that you pray for them now and at the hour of death that they be made worthy of the promise of Your Son Lord Jesus Christ. Amen
 
Loyal
I guess that means he loved me and you more than the apostles, because didn't all except John the beloved go to their deaths for Christ. We are called to pickup our Cross to suffer not just for any old reason but for Christ that includes dyeing. His will be done not MINE, if he says I must go through tribulation then so be it. I say look at this very moment to our brother Christians in the Middle East who are being tortured and murder all for His Name.
OK King1 I'm just wondering though, where God said you have to go through the tribulation period. We have tribulation in this world as it is.
John 16:33 (KJV)

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation (affliction, trouble, anguish): but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

2 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)

4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation(affliction, trouble, anguish) , that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

This speaks of problems we will face in our lives as followers of Christ. These next speak of an era of time. A distinctive period in time marked by a distinctive character.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:29-30 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

These last two verses speak of tribulation as a time whereas the first two speak of tribulation as something to deal with.

So you will have tribulation but you do not have to go through The time of tribulation

This is what I was saying....We will all face troublesome things in this world but God will pull us out before the time of the Tribulation

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 (KJV)

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV)

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


.
 
Loyal
Many protestants believe in the rapture and "the tribulation".

The word tribulation simply means "troubles". So there has been some degree of tribulation since the beginning of mankind.
There are verses in the Bible that say we will all tribulation in our lives. ( John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Rom 5:3; etc...)
However there are other verses that talk about a specific period of tribulation "such has not occurred since the beginning of creation, until now
and never will be again (Mark 13:19; Matt 24:21; ) It talks about the "great tribulation" Rev 7:14; and it even says there will
believers/Christians who come out of this time.

The Bible uses the phrase - "the last days" several times in the New testament.
Again.. sometimes this refers to the current days of the times ( Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:2; )
But other times refers to the future. ( 2 Tim 3:1; James 5:3; 2 Peter 3:3; )

Typically the 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 7 seals, 3 woes, and 7 peals of thunder that cause things like a third
of the rivers and seas to be dried up, a third of mankind to die, flaming hailstones, severe earthquakes so huge
that they move mountains and lake from their places,and huge flaming meteors that crash into the sea, to be the events of this tribulation.

Of course Christians will be severely persecuted during this time as well. "The beast" will force people to take his mark, he will force people to worship him and his image. People will be beheaded for their faith. These events are seem to coincide with timing of the 7 trumpets/seals/bowls/peals mentioned earlier.
 
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