The Bread and Wine

[Fragrant Grace]

That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread:
And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me.
After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till He come.
1 Corinthians 11:23-26


Greetings brothers and sisters in our beloved Lord Jesus Christ

I have a couple of questions regarding the Lord's supper, the emblems, communion or whatever you may call this remembrance service.

The wine
Was wine mentioned in general in the New Testament alcoholic wine or simply grape juice?
Should the wine at 'communion' services be alcoholic, be grape juice or does it not matter what it is because it's symbolic?

The Bread
Should the bread be unleavened or just a normal loaf of bread?
Or does it not matter?

How does the Lord want us to remember Him?
Should it be a 'formal service' as is the case in many churches
Should it be weekly....on the first day of the week?
Or should it be more informal just when believers come together in fellowship
Does it matter?

 

[B-A-C]

Interesting question. In attending over two dozen different churches, I can say none of them ever actually used wine. Usually grape juice.
The bread is usually unleavened (wafer or cracker) but I've been in churches that use regular bread. One church uses a big loaf to this day that people break portions off of.
These are symbols to me, they represent the blood and body of Christ, obviously a symbol is just a physical object that represent another object.
I've been churches that have communion every week. I've been in churches that do it once every two or three months. I tend to lean toward having it more often,
if not every week, then at least once a month or so.

For me personally I don't worry about the physical elements too much as nearly what they represent. I do think this is a time of confession and cleansing.

1 Cor 11:27; Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
1 Cor 11:28; But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1 Cor 11:29; For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

The danger of having it too often, is that it just becomes a common ritual that gets done without personal reflection.
The danger of having it too far apart is that we lose the close fellowship with the Lord. For me personally even though I confess things every now and then, communion
is the time I really examine my life, heart and motives. It is a time when I remember (in remembrance) what he went through for me. It's easy to say "he died on the cross for me".
But have you ever really thought about what he endured during that time? How far he went for you?

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as you...

This seems to say we should this more than once. I think self examination isn't a one time thing.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Thank you for your reply @B-A-C
I would agree it is the remembrance that is important....the bread and wine a symbolic feast

Was the wine referred to in the Bible alcohol?

 

[B-A-C]

Was the wine referred to in the Bible alcohol?

In the upper room? I don't know for sure, but I am doubtful.

A few verses about wine.
Rom 14:21; It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
Drinking might be OK, but not if it causes your brother to stumble.

Eph 5:18; And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Drinking might be OK, but not being drunk.
1 Pet 4:3; For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.


Elders and Deacons cannot be alcoholics it seems.
1 Tim 3:3; not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
1 Tim 3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
Tit 1:7; For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
Tit 2:3; Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good,

1 Tim 5:23; No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
It seems a little wine every now and then is OK.

 

[james1523]

Wine was fermented grape juice and very much alcoholic.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Wine was fermented grape juice and very much alcoholic.

Thank you @B-A-C and @james1523 for your replies

Are there any scriptures that would suggest wine being fermented grape juice or not?
Or is there just historical evidence?

 

[B-A-C]

Are there any scriptures that would suggest wine being fermented grape juice or not?

Eph 5:18; seems to suggest at least of it was alcoholic. Although a friend of mine recently brought some (they looked like milk cartons to me) back from Israel, they said wine on the side
but it wasn't alcoholic. Admittedly this is 2,000 years later. But it wasn't refrigerated either. It wasn't like American grape juice, (Welch's) to me, it tasted a lot like wine, but without the alcohol.

 

[amadeus2]

I received this information from a friend on the Internet a number of years ago. I suppose that the information could be verified if so desired:

The ancient Jewish culture had a far different view of what you call "rottingtoxic beverage", they called it a "gift from God".

The process to stop fermentation was not invented until 1869 by Thomas Welch. Mr. Welch was Methodist and a leader in the temperence movement. He wanted to offer a non-alcoholic communion beverage. He did so by placing the juice insealed container and then placing the container in boiling water which killedthe yeast that naturally occurs in grapes, hence stopping the fermentationprocess. When he offered his product to the Churches of the time they rejected it across the board saying that they felt it was important to use the same elements as Jesus used.

Before 1869 there was no way known to stop fermentation. Once grapes are mashed the natural sugars and yeasts begin to react immediately in fact there are some strains that begin the process while still on the vine

The fact is that in the first century "grape juice" did not exist. It is a historical fact that Jesus drank wine and that an alcoholic beverage was served at the Passover meal (Seder) when he instituted the communion. In fact scholars agree that the reason the disciples went to sleep in the garden is that they had had too much to drink and were "tipsy".

 

[Chad]

There is no Scripture that specifically forbids a believer from drinking wine.

In some cases it encourages it for sick people

Ecclesiastics 7:9
7Go, e eat your bread with joy,
And drink your wine with a merry heart;
For God has already accepted your works.

We're told to avoid drunkenness

Ephesians 5:18-19
And a do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another b in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making cmelody in your heart to the Lord,

Nothing should consume us, or master our bodies either.
2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of 10corruption; q for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into 11 bondage.

 

[Margaux]

We as Christians should not place the value on the natural unleavened bread and wine, rather place the value on Jesus and His Bloodshed on the cross; that should be the centre of our lives. For when we fellowship and partake of the Holy communion we remember Jesus and we reflect and ask for forgiveness for our shortcomings so that Jesus’s terrible death on the cross was not in vain.
Mathew 26:26-28(KJV) 26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
1.The above verses illustrates the breaking of bread and wine , prayer and fellowship , it is a reminder that we should remember Jesus as our covenant God, His body was broken unto death for us, His blood was shed for us for the remission of our sins. (In other words, we have to judge ourselves when we partake of the Holy Communion.)
2. 1st Corinthians 11:27-31 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged
3.1st Corinthians 5:7-8 7) purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us: 8)therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
4. In conclusion: John 14: 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Colosians 3:3-4 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.