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the Bible

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i am talking to a catholic man, and he asks me " where in the Bible dose it say we need the Bible, and where in the Bible dose it say what the the books of the Bible should be,? " how do you answer questions like that.? i have never had anyone ask me that before.
 
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It is kind of hard to reconcile the catholic church and what is written in the Bible. One of the two are in real ERROR. Which one? WELL....
 
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Really need to look at it like this. One of the two is God breathed and the other is man made. Which would you put your faith in? Which would you want to attribute to your salvation? Do you want to rely on what man is saying is necessary for you to enter the Kindom of God or would you rather "go to the well?" I was raised Catholic. In my Catholic learning GOd is a vengeful person who would rather condemn you for your mistakes rather than conivct you to do the right thing. In the end it is faith that will tell you which is more accurate. In the end if you listen to your heart and read God's word the Holy Spirit will give you the guidance you need to determine the anwer to these questions.
 
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i cant get him to answer the question " what is missing from the Bible that we need for salvation, how to worship Jesus, or how to live our lives.? " so i guess he knows it is all we need, just wont admit it. sad.
 
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That is sad, but you have to bear in mind that he enemy will use whatever he can to try and keep us away from the Truth. One thing that I have heard in very recent past at church is that the deveil will use anything to draw you away from God and keep you in in a state of spiritual "limbo". If he cannot get you to sin flat out, then he is going to try and go the opposite way and make you into someone who is devoted to a point of overdoing it. I read somewhere that a guy was so strong in his walk with God that God would tell him where to eat lunch (Burger King) and then what to eat (Whopper) when he got to the location. Reading on, I believe that he did have a strong walk, but unless there was someone at Burger King who would only talk about God to someone who ordered a Whopper, I do not think God would get that specific on something so trivial (I could be wrong). My point is that evil does not play by any rules. If the devil can use our faith against us, he will. Pride, is one of his "gifts." Being raised Catholic and going to Catholic schools, I did not even come close to learning anything about salvation, the new covenant, or even that the Bible was a book I should really read, but not just read, but also study. The Catholics I know are very proud people, completely devoted to the Catholic beliefs. Reading the Bible for Truth is not necessary. Go to confession, say some Hail Mary's and Our Fathers and you are ready to go to heaven again... I am not putting down Catholics or thier beliefs, I just wish they would "go to the Well" themselves.
 
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Ask him, "why are you catholic if you don't need the bible"? Yes, they are two different "bibles". The real Scripture we read, and then theirs'.

2 Timothy 3:16

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If GOD did not want us to "need" the Book of Life, He would not have given it to us in the first place.

* THIS PORTION BELOW TAKEN FROM BIBLE.COM *

The Bible is...


1. Is FOOD for the Soul
"He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD" (Deuteronomy 8:3).

"I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread" (Job 23:12).

"How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth" (Psalm 119:103).

"Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good" (1 Peter 2:2-3).

"When your words came, I ate them; they were my joy and my heart's delight, for I bear your name, O LORD God Almighty" (Jeremiah 15:16).

"Why spend money on what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy? Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of fare" (Isaiah 55:2).

2. Is powerful to SAVE
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile" (Romans 1:16).

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

3. Is a MIRROR

"Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like" (James 1: 23-24).

4. Is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12).

5. Is a SEED, generative and life-giving
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God" (1 Peter 1:23).

"The farmer sows the word. Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown" (Mark 4:14-20).

"Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness" (2 Corinthians 9:10).

"He who goes out weeping, carrying seed to sow, will return with songs of joy, carrying sheaves with him" (Psalm 126:6).

6. Is WATER, the power to purify
"...to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word..." (Ephesians 5:26).

"How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word" (Psalm 119:9).

"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth" (John 17:17).

"Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart" (1 Peter 1:22).

7. Is a LAMP that illuminates and guides us
"Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path" (Psalm 119: 105).

"The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple" (Psalm 119:130).

"For these commands are a lamp, this teaching is a light, and the corrections of discipline are the way to life" (Proverbs 6:23).

"And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts" (2 Peter 1:19).

8. Is a consuming FIRE
'They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"(Luke 24: 32).

"But if I say, 'I will not mention him or speak any more in his name,' his word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot" (Jeremiah 20: 9).

"I will make my words in your mouth a fire and these people the wood it consumes" (Jeremiah 5:14).

9. Is a HAMMER to break the hardened heart

" 'Is not my word like fire,' declares the LORD, 'and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?' "Jeremiah 23: 39

10. Is a SWORD; a weapon against the devil
"Take...the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God"(Ephesians 6: 17).

"Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only' ' " (Matthew 4:10, emphasis ours).

"Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth" (Revelation 2:6).

11. Is the SOURCE OF FAITH
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which
are seen were not made of things which do appear" (Hebrews 11:3).

12. Is a LIFE-GIVING force.
"He asked me, 'Son of man, can these bones live?' I said, 'O Sovereign LORD, you alone know.' Then he said to me, 'Prophesy to these bones and say to them, `Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' ' So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, 'Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' ' So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army" (Ezekiel 31:3-10).

"Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, 'Live!' I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels" (Ezekiel 16:6-7).

"Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life' " (John 6:68).

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31).

"If your law had not been my delight, I would have perished in my affliction. I will never forget your precepts, for by them you have preserved my life" (Psalm 119:92-93).

"Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God' "(Matthew 4:4).

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24).

"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death" (John 8:51).
 
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"Evil doesn't play by the rules."

"Evil doesn't play by the rules." Smiles, that has to be one of the best quotes I have ever heard. Bible.com is one of my favorite websites, too, I have a window open to it while I'm on TalkJesus.com - the two make a very powerful pair to study THE WORD!! People should be CARRYING their Bible INTO CHURCH and studying! Not just "reading" - STUDYING. God bless you all abundantly for showing the world the truth. Love In Christ, CaliFlower :love:
 
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i am also asking him about Matt;23; 9. " do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven " i ask him is there a verse that says that we can.? not a verse that say others have, but that we can. no answer there either. then he gets mad when i suggest he is in darkness.
 
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Bibles and Doctrines!

Hi Bruce,

I have been following this Thread with interest and was about last night to post a rather long one to you setting out my understanding of the Catholic View of their Christianity when guess what it was posted to Cyberspace! I think He must not have thought very much of it?

Attempt to love your Catholic friend into Salvation rather than by hitting him over the head with your Bible. Remember His Bible is bigger than yours, (Can give you an awfully big headache?).

But remember the complete King James of the English Church actually has more books in it than even his has! My Church and your friends nearly share one thing in common, that of a larger Old Testament than the Bible you carry!

We adopted the books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never in doubt. That is why I do not have any problem with the quotation's quoted here, they are all normal to both of our experiences, Praises the Lord.

My English Church witness in their first article as per Chad's Statement of Faith for this Forum, that,
Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation!!! .................

Blessed be the Name of the Lord!!! ................... Hallelujah .....................

The difference between the three of us is,

1. You know and only need to know what is in your hand, Your Holy Bible!

2. I as a member of the English Church am the same as you! There is one exception. I can still have the old King James as it was in 1611 with the hidden section of the old Testament, The Apocrypha, Which contain, "the other books the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine; such are these following: .........."


Then we list them and end,

"All the Books of the New Testament, as they are commonly received, we do receive, and account them Canonical," (Accepted by the Christian Church).

3. Now your Catholic friend,
Rome did not take the Books of the Apocrypha out of the Old Testament, but left them there and in some cases I believe rearranged them in their O.T. Anybody? This means that Rome has founded their doctrine based in their O.T. and there we have our differences creeping in. Limbo if my memory serves me right is founded in one of these books of the Apocrypha? (Our Old, New and Apocrypha was Adopted in England in 1562, before they actually translated and produced the King James, 1611!).



Where as you and I Bruce hold to what Chad has said here above, Our Holy Bibles! Your Roman Catholic friend is expected to listen to his Priest for enlightenment and was until Vatican Two not expected to read any Bible at all. The Catholic Father was supposed to teach him everything he needed to know about his faith.

1. Their foundation of doctrinal Faith is laid on the Bible, (Only those who knew Hebrew, Latin and Greek would be able to do that!!!).

2. The second foundation of their Faith depended on the Traditions of the Ancient Catholic Fathers, All the ancient Councils in the first 500 yrs. or so after the Ascension!

Our problem is that we do not start from the same Doctrinal Foundation. We the Bible it's Authority Ultimate Authority. He from Church Tradition and his Bible expounded to him by the priests!

As with all sections of the Kingdom of God we must witness with loving-tender-kindness to all who want to hear the Witness! We must not do what Chad doesn't approve of here, argue, debate and score points to the honour of what we know is right!

I know to my cost I've tried hitting one of my Catholic brothers over the head with my Bible and he has followed by doing the same with his, his is definitely bigger, but K.J. is definitely the best, it's got two more Maccabeus and two Esdras in it than he has!!! ................ But you will not win by hypothetical assaults on each others positions.

Jesus is the Name of the Lord, and His Salvation saves Souls. Argument never does that thing even when it's very good and well rehearsed!

John.3:16 will do I think for me!

Blessed be the Name of the Lord!

Colin2000.
 
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Oh Colin! Thank you SO MUCH for this extensive research into Catholicism. Very helpful; I can see from the OT clearly where they got the "head covering" in church. They don't recognize that - it's a woman's HAIR! Right? :thumbs_up:

God bless you, and thank you for your post! Love in Christ, CaliFlower :rose:
 
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FIRST and LAST

He doesn't sound like most Catholics I Know but than he does sound like some I know.

Not everyone who claims to be Catholic is Catholic just like most churches, and religions.

Not everyone who claims to be a Jew is a Jew or

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian and so on....

Anyways all we really need is faith in CHRIST JESUS.

FIRST Answer to 1st question:

But the Bible is very helpful....since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, how could one believe if one didn't hear.

But there is more than one way of hearing. What if you where deaf and blind? How could you hear? How did the Apostles hear? How did the prophets hear? Is God so limited that his voice can be blocked? (NO!)


There is a place that the Bible says: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!''

And in another place....

"the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."



Second answer to 2d question:

The Author of the Bible, the Holy Spirit, answers this question to those who belong to Christ, because all his sheep hear his voice and know the truth that sets them free.

And There is a place that the Bible says:

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.




bruce bunnell said:
i am talking to a catholic man, and he asks me " where in the Bible dose it say we need the Bible, and where in the Bible dose it say what the the books of the Bible should be,? " how do you answer questions like that.? i have never had anyone ask me that before.
 
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Head Coverings!

Hi Califlower,

An aside perhaps, Quote:- "Head coverings" in church. They don't recognize that it's a woman's HAIR! Right.

You have a point, I can still remember how beautiful the Jewess' looked walking through my district to their Synagogues on Saturday/Sunday mornings. I used to think that there must be something in the genes or it's equivalent then when I looked at their hair!

Then later in life I discovered listening to a documentary on Judaism that they were wearing wigs? Seemly the Lord somewhere in Scripture commanded the women to cover their heads when in the synagogue!

They put a wig over their hair, Sorry LORD but you stood no chance with that one!

I shall now go and take confession!

With His Love,

Colin.

Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
 
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Spirit filled Catholics!

Hi Yeshua,

A stereotype I fear? I have met a couple who did come close to the one I described! Yes I have talked to some Catholics who were in name alone. Nominal.

In the 1970's I did meet and fellowship with a group of Catholics in their local church. Born Again and filled with the Spirit under the Anointing!!! .............

Now that was beautiful to see!

Yours in His Name,

Colin.
 
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Don

Bruce, don't feel bad. People rejected Jesus Christ when he was here on earth. If you can just extend a hand an offer to pray for them in the name of Jesus that the blood of jesus sprinkle their heart and the Holy Spirit lead you in truth. If they won't pray with you, just say a silent prayer for him or her as you're walking away and leave it in Gods Hands. But don't feel bad, Okay ? You tried. That is waht Jesus looks at.

Help someone have a good day. Don
 
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