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The Bible: Too Low,Too Human,Too Safe

stephen

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
5,265
More than once I have been accused of being a bibliolater, a person who idolizes the Bible, who has excessive reverence for the letter of the Bible. I'm sure many other Christians have been accused of this as well. In my experience, this charge tends to be leveled against those who affirm the infallibility or inerrancy of Scripture; it may also be leveled against those who affirm the sufficiency of Scripture. People who level such a charge are objecting to what they see as a woodenness of faith and practice that stems from an understanding of Scripture they deem too literal.

We, as sinful human beings, have lost the right and the ability to have unmediated access to God. Before they fell into sin, Adam and Eve had the privilege of walking and talking with God. They had direct, face-to-face access to the Creator. This is a privilege we eagerly anticipate reclaiming when the Lord returns, but in the meantime, polluted as we are by sin, we have severed that direct communication. We now rely on communication from God that is mediated by Scripture. John Stott once said, "God has clothed His thoughts in words, and there is no way to know Him except by knowing the Scriptures.... We can't even read each other's minds, much less what is in the mind of God." God's Word tells us that we can only know God as he actually, truly is, through that same Word.

The Bible is the Word of God. John Frame, in Salvation Belongs To The Lord, defines the word of God as "God's powerful, authoritative self-expression." God's word is powerful in that it does more than merely communicate, but also creates and controls. Frame says, "the word is the very presence of God among us, the place where God dwells. So you cannot separate the word of God from God himself."

Did you catch that? You cannot separate the word of God from God himself. The word reveals God. Frame goes on to show that the speech of God has divine attributes. It is righteous, faithful, wonderful, holy, eternal, omnipotent and perfect. Because these are attributes of God they are also attributes of his Word. He shows also that the word of God is an object of worship, quoting Psalm 56:4 where David writes, "In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I shall not be afraid. What can flesh do to me?" The Psalmist repeats this in verse ten, saying 'In God, whose word I praise, in the Lord, whose word I praise...' This is remarkable, for only God is the object of religious praise. To worship something other than God is idolatrous. Since David worships the word here, we cannot escape the conclusion the word is divine."

When we read the Bible or come under the teaching of the Bible, we are hearing from God himself. We do not worship pen and ink -- this would be to lower the Bible, not elevate it -- but we do treat Scripture with reverence, regarding it as the very presence, power, and authority of God. Really, it is difficult to imagine how we could have too-high a view of Scripture. It is much more likely that our regard for Scripture is too low, too human, too safe.

The Bible: Too Low, Too Human, Too Safe | Overflow
 
I have a little teeny tiny issue with the authors message ....or maybe its not so little...who can tell...

We, as sinful human beings, have lost the right and the ability to have unmediated access to God.

The author seems to have completely ignored the fact that the Christ [The Living Word]is our mediator.


Also, an honest question in regards to this statement...

David worships the word here...

Is it recorded anywhere that David had a Bible? (access to some portion of the Holy Writ of the Prophets written on papyrus)

Or is he referring to the 'Word(s) of God' as heard from the mouths of the Prophets?
 
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
 
The 'Holy Bible', as the bound copy of OT Books and NT Letters in its present form. that has been made available to the common man in the 21 century, is unquestionably a most valuable resource for any follower of Christ...anyone who knows me, knows I quote from its writings often, and obviously believe its writings are "inspired by God ...and the man seeking to follow God will profit by its instructions"

- That being said I also want to address this statement:

Really, it is difficult to imagine how we could have too-high a view of Scripture.

I do not find this difficult to imagine this at all, I see a too-high view of Scripture all too often.

Before anyone reaches for a rock, let me explain what I mean by that.

I often read people making statements such as: "The Bible is your life, if you do not read it every day you will die Spiritually" [paraphrased]

The first problem with that belief or statement is this: If this were true, we are all in serious trouble, because the 'Bible' can be taken away from us. So man can take away the spirit- life God has given us. Does that sound right?

Secondly, If this were true, Christianity should have died out for lack of a printing press. The commoner never had access to the written word for almost the entire history of Christendom, indeed for the entire history of humanity, unless they traveled far and wide to hear a page, or a portion of it read to them, or had a Prophet of God land on their doorstep.

Last but not least, the 'Bible' itself does not teach that it is our life, rather it tells us over and over and over again that the 'Word of God' [Spirit - as in the very breath of God] is our life.

The "Word" as noted by revbrad, is a Living Word, there is no life to be found in the deadness of the letter without the one who inspired it.

Jesus said expressly to the Bible Scholars and Theologians of the early church, "You search the Scriptures [study, memorize, quote etc] for in its 'knowledge' you think you will find life, but you wont come to me, the "Spirit" who can give you life." [para]

I think you can take from Christs own words, that without His Spirit IN us, the deadness of the Letter leaves a man with a head full of knowledge, and a soul rather....dead?

CHRIST is our life, the written word is intended only to point man to HIM.

The too-high view of Scripture happens when the reader confuses the Source with the resource.
 
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Another point, or question actually, which bible is the "word of God". Some bibles include the Apocrypha and some have different interpretations, so which are the considered the "word of God"?
 
Another point, or question actually, which bible is the "word of God". Some bibles include the Apocrypha and some have different interpretations, so which are the considered the "word of God"?

Good Question...

I have a version I normally use, however, I do use multipule versions.
When I read and study I ask the Spirit to teach me, comparing and contrasting with the Word written on my heart.

My answer: The Word that is written on my heart and revealed to me by the Holy Spirit is the Word of God
 
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Jesus said expressly to the Bible Scholars and Theologians of the early church, "You search the Scriptures [study, memorize, quote etc] for in its 'knowledge' you think you will find life, but you wont come to me, the "Spirit" who can give you life." [para].

A half truth is a whole lie.

John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

The scriptures are how we know Jesus.
 
A half truth is a whole lie.

John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

The scriptures are how we know Jesus.

Is not saying they "point to Him" the same as saying they "testify of Him" or are we mincing over the exactness of words now



If you prefer I can talk in ye olde English exactly like King James...
 
Secondly, If this were true, Christianity should have died out for lack of a printing press. The commoner never had access to the written word for almost the entire history of Christendom, indeed for the entire history of humanity, unless they traveled far and wide to hear a page, or a portion of it read to them, or had a Prophet of God land on their doorstep.
Hi. The thing is Coconut, Christianity did die out without the Bible. In those areas dominated by the Roman church, the common people indeed were bereft of God's word. What Bibles there were were chained to the pulpits in the cathedrals and written in Latin. Even the priests themslves by and large were ignorant of scripture. The result of this was a dead religion reliant on myths traditions superstitions and relics. It was not until Wycliffe came along and began his work of translating the scriptures into the common language that Rome began to lose her hold on people and the real Christ of calvary was rediscovered.
There were however places, for example Celtic Britain, Asia and the Piedmont area of Italy, where the scriptures were in existence and Rome had little influence. There Christianity flourished, evangelism was strong, and Christ was honoured above tradition.
Last but not least, the 'Bible' itself does not teach that it is our life, rather it tells us over and over and over again that the 'Word of God' [Spirit - as in the very breath of God] is our life.
Jesus prayed to His Father: "Sanctify them through Thy truth, Thy word is truth." Sanctification, along with justification, is essential to our eternal destiny. If God's truth as contained in His word is our sanctifying power, then I don't think it too much of an exageration to call God's word our life. It is after all His creative power to recreate us in the image of His Son. In fact, God Himself elevates His word above His own name.
The "Word" as noted by revbrad, is a Living Word, there is no life to be found in the deadness of the letter without the one who inspired it.

Jesus said expressly to the Bible Scholars and Theologians of the early church, "You search the Scriptures [study, memorize, quote etc] for in its 'knowledge' you think you will find life, but you wont come to me, the "Spirit" who can give you life." [para]

I think you can take from Christs own words, that without His Spirit IN us, the deadness of the Letter leaves a man with a head full of knowledge, and a soul rather....dead?

CHRIST is our life, the written word is intended only to point man to HIM.

The too-high view of Scripture happens when the reader confuses the Source with the resource.
I cannot but object to your referring to the Bible as 'deadness of letter'. I am positive that there are millions of Christians throughout all ages who would testify that it was through reading the word of God that they received Christ.

I have for a long time loved the passage of scripture that tells of Jesus' walk with the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. They did not recognise their risen Lord. Yet Jesus did not introduce Himself to them, rather He gave them a Bible study. This taught them that they were to rely on the written word above even their own experience of knowing Him. Peter even, in 2 Peter 1:17-21, after describing his experience in hearing the very voice of the Father with his own ears, said, "we have also a more sure word of prophecy whereunto ye do well to take heed, as unto a light in a dark place...." Peter is exalting the written word above even his own experience of hearing audibly the voice of God. Why you may think? Because friends one can easily be deceived by 'voices' and 'promptings' of 'spirits', believing them to be those of the Holy Spirit. Many exalt these promptings above the written word, as if the Holy Spirit would contradict the very words He Himself inspired! No folks, the word, the Bible, is our only foundation. Anything else, be they the decrees of ecclesiastical councils, pastors, or so-called prophets, nor even the whisperings of conscience, unless they agree with the scriptures, should be utterly repudiated.

That said Coconut, I fully agree with your statment that there is in heaven a living loving Mediator through whom we must pass to come to the Father; the scriptures in every book and on every page, pointing unerringly to Him as our Lord, Saviour, and elder Brother.

'To the law and the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.' Isa. 8:20

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after there own lusts they shall heap to themslves teachers , having itching ears, and they shall turn their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Tim. 4:3,4.


I am convinced that this time has come. Christians of all persuasions and in all churches no longer hold the scriptures as the basis and foundation for Christian life and faith. It interferes with their worldly sinful hearts...the devil delights to deceive them into falsehoods which they cherish.

But I also believe that God, in His great love and mercy for man, by His grace will, before Jesus comes, have a people who will maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard and benchmark for doctrine, instruction in righteousness, reproof, and correction. (2 Tim. 3:16)
 
If God's truth as contained in His word is our sanctifying power, then I don't think it too much of an exageration to call God's word our life.

Brother, if this be so, please answer me this: Why did Jesus Christ not say to the Scribes (the very men who`s job it was to transcribe the words of the prophets in ink and thus knew every word) exactly what you have said here?
 
If God's truth as contained in His word is our sanctifying power, then I don't think it too much of an exageration to call God's word our life.

Brother, if this be so, please answer me this: Why did Jesus Christ not say to the Scribes (the very men who`s job it was to transcribe the words of the prophets in ink and thus knew every word) exactly what you have said here?

Jas 1:21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
 
39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!40 Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
John 5:39-40 (NLT)

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”
John 14:6-7 (NLT)

It is obvious that one must do more than read a bible to gain life, one must come to Jesus and meet Him personally.

He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
John 14:17 (NLT)

12 “There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.14 He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me.15 All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’
John 16:12-15 (NLT)

While the scripture do indeed point to Jesus and point out certain truths, it is the HolySpirit who leads us to all truth and reveals truth. HolySpirit is to be our guide. If all one has is a bible than they are no better off than the scribes that Jesus called "blind".

Jesus said;
7 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.
Rev 2:7 (NLT)

11 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.
Rev 2:11 (NLT)

17 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.
Rev 2:17 (NLT)

6 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.
Rev 3:6 (NLT)

13 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.
Rev 3:13 (NLT)

22 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.”
Rev 3:22 (NLT)

If the "bible" is to be our guide Jesus would have said so, but He didn't. He told us to listen to the HolySpirit and the scriptures instruct us to do the same. I believe there are numerous people who know the bible yet don't have ears to hear HolySpirit and it's like having an textbook without a teacher.

I love the scriptures and study them daily, I have many study tools at my disposal but I covet most, my ears to hear HolySpirit for He is my teacher and guide and He tells me that life is found in Jesus and Him only.
 
Jiggyfly, I understand where you are coming from. I constantly rely on God's Spirit to lead, guide, teach, correct, and encourage. He is with me constantly and I would never do without Him. That said, one must remember one very imortant thing. It was the very same Holy Spirit that inspired the prophets and the apostles to put down in writing all that we read in the scriptures. It was the very same Holy Spirit that filled Christ and enabled Him to the work He did. Just as it is the same Holy Spirit that leads and fills us with His vivifying power. That same Holy Spirit Jiggy doesn't contradict His own word however. What He has said in writing He will say in the ear. What He says in the ear will never differ from what He has said previously in written form.
How often have you read, or heard of men and women who "being led of the spirit" have killed, tortured, persecuted, made war, fornicated, and led masses into deception and suicide? How did this happen Jiggy? Because they trusted in their "inner voice", which they sincerely but so wrongly understood to be the Holy Spirit, and trusted that voice above the written word of God. God knows our hearts Jiggy, that they are deceitful and corrupt, marred and corrupted by generations and 1000s of years of sin and selfishness, so He gave us His word, that we may not be mistaken, nor led astray. It is God's unbounding caring love and compassion for man that He preserved His word depsite the constant and untrammelled war waged against it over the centuries. Let us not forsake it now so close to the consummation. Let us not put our trust in anything else other than God's word,

Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
 
Jiggyfly, I understand where you are coming from. I constantly rely on God's Spirit to lead, guide, teach, correct, and encourage. He is with me constantly and I would never do without Him. That said, one must remember one very imortant thing. It was the very same Holy Spirit that inspired the prophets and the apostles to put down in writing all that we read in the scriptures. It was the very same Holy Spirit that filled Christ and enabled Him to the work He did. Just as it is the same Holy Spirit that leads and fills us with His vivifying power. That same Holy Spirit Jiggy doesn't contradict His own word however. What He has said in writing He will say in the ear. What He says in the ear will never differ from what He has said previously in written form.
How often have you read, or heard of men and women who "being led of the spirit" have killed, tortured, persecuted, made war, fornicated, and led masses into deception and suicide? How did this happen Jiggy? Because they trusted in their "inner voice", which they sincerely but so wrongly understood to be the Holy Spirit, and trusted that voice above the written word of God. God knows our hearts Jiggy, that they are deceitful and corrupt, marred and corrupted by generations and 1000s of years of sin and selfishness, so He gave us His word, that we may not be mistaken, nor led astray. It is God's unbounding caring love and compassion for man that He preserved His word depsite the constant and untrammelled war waged against it over the centuries. Let us not forsake it now so close to the consummation. Let us not put our trust in anything else other than God's word,

Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Are all translations inspired by HolySpirit as well? Are all interpretations inspired by HolySpirit too?
 
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If God's truth as contained in His word is our sanctifying power, then I don't think it too much of an exageration to call God's word our life.



Jas 1:21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.


Any teacher of Israel who does not understand that the word that gives life is the bread that comes down from Heaven and not Holy Writ, would perhaps benefit more from going back and listening in on Jesus` conversation with Nicodemus, than listening to me talk to myself. :dirol:
 
No Jiggy, they are not. But even the Apostles temselves were wrong over some issues. The Bible was written by human hands, hands which are imperfect and can and do err. Yet I am convinced that in the KJV and maybe a few select others that haven't been corrupted by Rome, God has preserved all the truth necessary to attain eternal life.
 
39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!40 Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
John 5:39-40 (NLT)

Well of course the scripture he was referring to here was the Torah or Old Testament. The Pharisee's didn't really have the New Testament at that time.
 
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