The Bible:1 Testament or 2

[paganmystic]

A point of contention for many, me included. Why? The Old Testament is the fabric of God's Law as well as the life & times of many noteworthy Jews so it stands to reason, as I figured a history book of my Saviour's people reasonable, right. Well that’s how I viewed it and as a Christian the New Testament was 'the' Testament, this also made sense since it was written during the life of Christ, hence; Christian or follower of Christ.

Well I began rethinking this ... not entirely but the concept for the New Testament. Yes it was written (well the Gospels were written during Jesus' life). Sometime ago I saw a post in another room called, "Old Testament Love", I was right taken back because I thought the 2 fundamental laws came from Jesus in the New Testament but I learned that they are referenced in the O.T.
1- Love God with all your heart, mind and soul &
2- Love your neighbour as yourself.
This with the Book of Job is summed up in a Romans verse and a couple verses in the second letter to the Corinthians came from 3 Books in the O.T. Wow, was I that far off base. So I pondered and prayed and pondered more. I realized I actually wasn't, it was still reasonably accurate. This was my realization:

Jesus was a devout Jew, he learned with extreme passion the Word, the laws handed down from our Father in Heaven and lifestyle choices necessary to follow God's Word. Now what was needed was how to give these Laws and lifestyle choices not only to the Jews(his people) but to all people all over the world. Well, for the Son of God this was not too difficult. Jesus found 12 disciples(ordinary people in various occupations). This was critical since His message was for all people. This is why you understand 1 Gospel more than the other 3. Once gathered Jesus told them; what i say, you write; what you see, you write; and what you hear, you write. Thus the Ministry of Jesus begins and why the Gospels are all self-supporting. After Jesus was raised from the dead and met one last time with the disciples He gave them the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16>20). This is where the letters of the Apostles comes in. They were commanded to go to all corners of the world and share the news with all who would listen, and the ones in the New Testament shared the lifestyle choices necessary to follow Jesus and why there so many cultures involved in the letters. And when some from those cultures moved around they too followed the Great Commission and carried the Word with them. Today it falls on us to carry the Word and follow the Great Commission.

For those who know the N.T. the basis for those works are in the O.T. support your own knowledge with those who originally received the Laws and learn the lifestyle of the ppl. who those Laws were meant for. Myself and a brother in Christ Rainrider who is also a Rabbi,[(lead me to the Tenach; the Jewish bible ), which i referenced here in the poll on the Trinity], have had many conversations on this subject and was quite intrigued with this understanding and from his unique perspective supported it although for obvious reasons would prefer more people to go straight to the O.T. ... read well and enjoy

*The Tenach and the Old Testiment are identical. or it should be if your bible is true, the only difference is the order of the books and the parts that could not be translated to Latin*

sorry one more footnote I will have another post on this subject. I also mentioned lifestyle a lot, well that was deliberate. Most people view Christianity merely a religion. but that is simply not true, your belief or faith is only 1 part of Christianity. Christianity is in fact a lifestyle. The Word MUST be in every aspect of your life to be a true believer.

your brother in Christ

This was originated for my brothers & sisters in the TalkCity enviroment. The references apply to there as with the people I mentioned in this post. The original post is still mine, and I felt I should share it here as well. We currently have many false prophets around us today carrying false testimonials of our Lord. We will soon see many more things which will confuse the Word, even though they are true, I hope this will help, along the way in your walk with Jesus, our Saviour.

 

[Ria]

Paganmystic, you certainly did well here, and I do agree with your point of view.
I never had a Tenach under eyes, but that would be the original Jewish scrolls put together, or not?
We cannot live with only one of the two Testaments, only the Old or only the New. They are both equally important. There are many cross references between the Old and New Testaments.
I cannot disregard any Testament or book taken up in the Bible.
There is something for us to learn in every text in the Bible, being it some history through which we can learn from Israel's mistakes (disobedience), or being it something Jesus said directly while on earth, or something John had seen for the future. It is there for us to take and make our own through the Holy Spirit who will lead us to interpretation thereof.
I agree with you when you say that Christianity is a lifestyle. 1 John 5 : 18 (KJV) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
When we are re-born through Jesus' blood, we live a holy sacrificed life, because we donot want to sin anymore.
Before I trail off of the original topic...
Have a blessed day in Jesus Christ our Saviour!

 

[paganmystic]

Sorry Ria, it was my intent to reply to this months ago. In my defense I was honing it more with more Judaism I have been learning and follow-up from the Bible itself.

First to answer you question the Tanakh is the construct of the Hebrew teachers and scholars who worked under the direction of God. It was the collection of the parchments and scrolls made by the original prophets and leaders of the Hebrew people. The 10 commandments and the Torah(Laws of God) that's the first 5 books of the Old Testament were given to Moses for the people during their exodus from Egypt. In the Tanakh there is a specific order that isn't reflected in the O.T. the order is:
The Torah, then the major prophets, minor prophets and finally the writings. Why this order was not maintained in the Old Testament we can only speculate. I have been getting a picture though we can discuss when we meet again in chat(lol). The first century church isn't looking as good as the Catholics want us to believe. But as I said we can only speculate. If your interested I have also found a linkage between Jesus and an original name for God in Genesis, Elohim. More very fascinating research you may enjoy.

Your brother in Christ ... agape

 

[jiggyfly]

I' sorry I didn't see this when you wrote it. This thread appears to be just another modern form of Judaism. There is an old covenant and there is a new covenant. Scriptures clearly make that distinction. The Gospel is not good news about the old covenant being opened up to the rest of the world, it is about a new and better covenant being offered and God setting aside the old covenant. I would be very careful of this line of thinking.

 

[paganmystic]

jiggyfly, welcome,


You found another thread of mine for which you can call my faith in question, lol ... there are more keep looking.


As for this one you are right, the Gospels are not good news about an old promise it is about the new promise and new hope for all who choose to believe. I stated that. This I have to paraphrase because I have been unable to find Christ's quote, Jesus, in the Gospels, clearly states that in the beginning there was His Father in Heaven and the Laws. The world will change, things will come and go but in the end the Laws will remain. Matthew 5:15>20; Teaching About the Law pay particular attention to verses 17 & 18. Then there is Mark 7:1>13; God's Command or Man's Tradition? in particular vs 6>10 & 13 Oh yeah it continues, Mark 7:14>23 No, where you may be quite mistaken is in the understanding of the New Covenant, the New Covenant(or new promise) was given to all people bar none. All we have to do is live by the Laws that God gave us in the beginning.


As I said Jesus' life and Ministry were based rigidly on the Laws given to man by God, the same Laws that will exist unto the end of time. Jesus also told us He was the Light and the way to His Father's(our Father's) Kingdom in Heaven. Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way. As I recall you also told me redemption comes based of faith alone. Well Jesus also told us that only His Father's chosen people had that option, but they had to rigidly live by only the Old Covenant with absolutely no deviation, they are the Semetic Jews, they were protected by God's Blood Covenant with Abraham, and have denounced Jesus as their Saviour, so that covenant is all they have for hope and cannot have it both ways. Everyone else, since God Himself became flesh to live as us and to toil as us(this was Jesus) and still live by the same Laws He gave us. His intent was to show us that we can live by His Laws as He did as Jesus[the Word part of the plural term Elohim(from Genesis 1:1)]. Sorry I cannot simply throw out the Laws of God and lead myself to believe they mean nothing. We are told that works without faith are dead. If we are to believe that as truth, then faith without works leads to hypocrisy. (the old expression, do as I say not as I do). This is exactly contrary to what Jesus taught.


In my thread I did say Jesus(the Word) lived as we HAVE TO, by the same Laws that are every bit as real today as they were when they were first handed down over 3000 yrs ago, as our example it can be done. Faith based works is not only the legacy we were left but we must also show our world or all would be a useless venture. That is also why I can never be angry being challenged by you or anyone that is confused by me. I will however forgive those that question Jesus' authority over us as we all strive to understand how to make it all work. And pray that His understanding will be given to all who want to believe.

your brother in Christ
* when I do located the very explicit words of Jesus I will edit them in.

 

[jiggyfly]

Paganmystic, I tried to read your last post but it is difficult. Could you try to edit using short paragraphs? Thanks

 

[paganmystic]

There you go, including some of the Gospel quotes I promised and there are many many more, Jesus also discussed the prophets alot too, especially Isaiah, they were only in the Old Testament. Their prophecies were God's commands given to people for people.

 

[jiggyfly]

Paganmystic, could you summarize and tell me what you think the crux of the new testament is ?