Join Us Today!

Join our non-denominational community with 10,000+ members and more than 50,000 monthly visitors today. Engage in bible discussions, studies, prayer support and friendly fellowship.

The Basics of Salvation.

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by B-A-C, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Christians often used the word "salvation", or saved". What do they mean?
    I never cease to be amazed at how many different meanings Christians give you.

    Saved.... how do you use the word saved?
    A lifeguard might save you... from drowning. A policeman might save you from being robbed.
    A ski patrol might save you from being lost and freezing. A fireman might save you from burning.

    What does Jesus save us from?
    You hear a number of different things... like "He just saves you from being lost"
    He saves you from darkness, He saves you from not knowing Him. All of these are good
    reasons, but people are quite content not knowing Him.

    He saves us from Hell!
    Eternal damnation and torment. The lake of fire. A place where there is gnashing of teeth.

    Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

    Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

    Matt 10:28; "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

    2 Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
    2 Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to ........ keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
    2 Pet 2:10 and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,

    Jude 1:23; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

    Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    John 15:6; "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

    Without Jesus... the only alternative,.. is you burn forever.

    ... to be continued ....
  2. Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
    Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
    Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Heb 10:31; It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Now according to Jesus... this won't just be a few people. In fact it will be the majority of people.

    Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
    Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    Luke 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

    People don't like to hear it. Even many Christians don't like to talk about it. But the plain and simple facts is... without Jesus everyone ends up in hell. Every other religion is a Satanic religion.... Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, B'hai,
    New Age, Native American spiritualism, Reincarnation, ancestry spiritualism, ... anyone who follows these is going to
    hell to burn. Anyone who rejects Jesus is going to hell to burn.

    John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

    Acts 4:12; "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

    1 Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

    Without Jesus, you are doomed!

    ... to be continued ...
  3. If you've ever sinned you deserve to die.

    Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The bad news is... we ALL have sinned.

    Rom 3:10; as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

    Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    1 Jn 1:8; If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    You might think you are a good person... who is good "most" of the time. It doesn't matter. If you've
    ever sinned (and we all have) we are guilty.

    Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

    ... to be continued ...
  4. so that's the bad news... But there is good news.

    Luke 1:19; The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
    Luke 2:10; But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
    Acts 8:12; But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
    Acts 13:32; "And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers,
    Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
    Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
    Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

    Some times you hear the phrase the "gospel". The word gospel simply means "good news".
    The good news is... we don't have to go to hell. We can be "saved".

    Notice the distinction here... It says everyone "can" be saved. Not everyone "will" be saved.
    Jesus died for everyone. But not everyone accepts Him as their Lord and Savior.

    So then the question is...

    Acts 16:30; and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

    ... to be continued ...
  5. when you see the word saved or save in the bible does it always mean saved in regards to salvation?? or just saved from something else?
    B-A-C likes this.
  6. The Greek word sozo means "saved" and "healed". Strongs's #4982: sozo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

    That's why we often read the phrase "your faith has made you whole", as it neatly covers the idea healed and saved at once.

    I'm confident that when the disciples woke Jesus during the storm in Galilee "save us!", they meant "save us from drowning".
    B-A-C likes this.
  7. Whilst this is true, it is not related to what Jesus saves us from.

    I can with confidence state that Jesus saves absolutely nobody from the lake of fire / hell.

    Jesus saves the person who wants to repent and serve Him. This person was never en route to the lake of fire.

    David, Abraham and many more sinners who stood out among sinners as they were after God's heart, were placed in Abrahams bosom, in Hades.

    Hades was a home for all those in death and outside of God's presence. We cannot ignore the fact that there were two places in Hades.

    Abrahams bosom alone debunks Calvinism.

    Jesus saves us from death / being out of God's presence / the wages of sin.

    The wages of loving sin more then hating it, is the eternal lake of fire. Jesus saves absolutely nobody from that. To save them would be to over ride their free will to hate what is good / God.
  8. On our choice you are 100% correct. Everyone makes a choice between Jesus or the lake of fire.

    Only because God applies Himself to reveal Himself to all those after His heart. Rom 12:9 Genuine love is to hate what is wicked and cling to what is good.
    Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
  9. I like @Hekuran 's answer. He is right. Saved doesn't always mean salvation. But Salvation always means "saved from hell".
  10. Hmmm... this seems like a conflict in your own statement. You agree it's true that without Jesus they burn,
    but then you say... even without Jesus they still don't burn?

    So you think no one needs Jesus to be saved? Then why even be a Christian? If no one "was ever en route to the lake of fire"
    then why do I need Jesus?

    Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    If your name isn't in the book of life. Into the fire you go.

    John 15:6; "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

    If "anyone" doesn't abide in Jesus, they are cast into the fire.

    Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

    The "unbelieving" face the second death. The lake of fire.

    Another word like "saved" and "salvation" is Savior. It also comes from the same root word.
    The Savior.. well... saves. How many times is Jesus called our Savior in the new testament?

    Luk 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
    Act 13:23 "From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,
    Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
    Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
    Tit 1:4; To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
    Tit 3:6; whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
    2 Pet 1:11; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
    2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

    That is actually incorrect the way you have it worded. There were two places in Sheol. Hades and Abraham's Bosom.
    Hades is the "bad side". A place of torment and flames. Abraham's Bosom was the "good side", also known as Paradise.

    But Hades and everyone in it.. eventually gets thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

    Born once = die twice. Born twice = die once. If you were never "Born again". You will face the second death.
  11. It may be easy to believe all that ...if you don't believe anybody loves God of their own free will.
  12. You have to ask yourself. If Jesus never died, would we all be thrown into the lake of fire?

    The answer to that is a resounding, no. Evidenced by Abraham's bosom. Calvinism debunked.

    You think we are Christians because we want to escape an eternity in fire?

    We need Jesus to be reconciled with God. Without Him we would stay in a place like Abraham's bosom for eternity.

    I disagree, Sheol is the same as Hades. It is the current hell. But whether we agree or disagree on this is absolutely irrelevant. We both agree Abrahams bosom is a place in death.

    It can be as AB is empty.
  13. Please learn to humble yourself. If we think of David. He loved God more then you did. God did not use you to write Psalms. Yet he needed a Savior. Your will, David's will is still smelly rags. Only Jesus is perfect and able to unite us with God.
  14. You are mistaken. If Jesus never died.... we "would" all be thrown into the lake of fire.
    Abraham's Bosom and Hades are temporary places. Hades eventually gets thrown into the Lake of fire.

    Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

    For someone who hates Calvinism so much, you seem to support most of it. The "main" tenant of Calvinism is
    OSAS. As far as I can tell, you support 4 out of 5 tenants. It seems you don't believe in predestination (pre-determinism).

    The studies have been done here several times. It is too much to post in one message, I will see if I can find the links.
    But Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) was where the "righteous"
    went before Jesus died. But they couldn't go to heaven yet. They couldn't go to heaven until Jesus sprinkled
    His blood on the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies in heaven. All the animals sacrificed during Judaism didn't
    take away anyone's sins, they were just a symbol, a token of the true sacrifice to come.

    After Jesus applied His blood, He descended into the lower parts of the earth and "led the captives free".
    The captives were the people in Abraham's Bosom. They couldn't go to heaven yet.
    The people (and angels) in Hades, are still there and some are still going there today.

    It is now, but it wasn't before Jesus applied the blood to the mercy seat and led the captives out of Sheol.
    In the old testament, the word Hades doesn't exist. Every one "righteous or not" went to Sheol. (to "sleep")

    In Luke 16 we find out that Sheol was split into two halves with a chasm between the two halves. The righteous
    went to one side, and the unrighteous went to the other side.

    Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
    Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

    Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
    Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)
  15. You are not imagining the amendment to scripture if Jesus never died. All of scripture rests on that. Jesus asked for the cup to be taken from Him. What if He did not go through with it? I am hypothesizing.

    You truly believe all those in Abrahams bosom would be thrown into the lake of fire. David? Children? Everyone? Adam and Eve ate one fruit and now eternal lake of fire?

    It is not something I want us to apply our minds to too much as it did not happen. But we need to consider it to grasp that God is not nonsensical. He has always seen a heart after His as something to hold onto. Albeit we be in sin.

    I do hate 5pt Calvinism as it paints God as partial / wicked. As for 4/5 TULIP's. We have to have our say on each point. We can interpret TULIP with a Calvinist cap on. I am literally going to interpret every word ''as it is defined in the dictionary''. No '''ifs or buts''. When some do that they arrive at 3,4 / 5. I just can't ignore the Calvinist view of each statement. Which I am 100% opposed to.

    Total depravity - No, I believe in a separation between mortal and venial sins. The venial sinner lands up in Abraham's bosom and was never intended for lake of fire. So, not total depravity. Calvinism believes sin = fully condemned.

    Unconditional election - No. I believe God bases His election based on what He sees in the individual. David had a heart after God's. He saw Abraham was a good man. Calvinism believes some were specially elected for salvation with God not basing it on anything He sees in the individual.

    Limited atonement - No. Jesus died for everyone. Calvinism believes its limited. ''God so loved the elect, that He gave His Son''.

    Irresistable grace
    - Yes. In the sense that once we are saved / given God our heart, He ''has'' our heart. But not as Calvinism believes, when God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist.

    Perseverance of the saints - Yes. You cannot lose your salvation.

  16. Your judgement not withstanding, can you tell me if anyone "united with God" can obey Him without fault?
    Or is He "united" to a bunch of rebellious haters?

    David didn't have the gift of baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, so could not be reborn of God's seed.
    We have that honor, and having cast off the Adamic seed, with it's affections and lusts, can live in obedience to God.
    Thanks be to God!

    You also failed to address the actions of those who DO serve God of their own free will.
    Free will isn't a reason for the ungodly to not serve God.
    It is a reason TO serve God.
  17. I am challenging your perfection, you can't reply with 'I don't sin'. I am asking why God is not using you for 1/1000th of what He used David or Mother Theresa for.

    Have you been married before or had kids? Would you call your loyal, yet imperfect wife and children rebellious haters?
    Born Again 2004 likes this.
  18. "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matthew 24:13)
  19. is the word here saved in reference to salvation? or just saved from something else?


    under the mercy and grace of Lord Jesus
  20. Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

    In this context, I think it would be difficult to argue it isn't salvation.

    2 Tim 2:12; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

    Mark 13:13; "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

    Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Share This Page