The 12 tribes

[B-A-C]

The twelve tribes, I am by no means an expert of this subject, but it
might be interesting to see if we can learn anything here. There has also
been mention of "the lost tribes". Maybe we can learn about that also.

The original twelve tribes, were of course the sons of Jacob, Who of course
was Esau's brother, who were the sons of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham.

Gen 35:22; It came about while Israel was dwelling in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father’s concubine, and Israel heard of it.

Now there were twelve sons of Jacob—

Gen 35:23; the sons of Leah: Reuben, Jacob’s firstborn, then Simeon and Levi and Judah and Issachar and Zebulun;
Gen 35:24; the sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin;
Gen 35:25; and the sons of Bilhah, Rachel’s maid: Dan and Naphtali;
Gen 35:26; and the sons of Zilpah, Leah’s maid: Gad and Asher. These are the sons of Jacob who were born to him in Paddan-aram.

Gen 35:27; Jacob came to his father Isaac at Mamre of Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron), where Abraham and Isaac had sojourned.
Gen 35:28; Now the days of Isaac were one hundred and eighty years. 29 Isaac breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people, an old man of ripe age; and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

1. Rueben
2. Simeon
3. Levi
4. Judah
5. Issachar
6. Zebulun
7. Joseph
8. Benjamin
9. Dan
10. Naphtali
11. Gad
12. Asher

===========================================================================================

However there have been changes along the way, hopefully we can learn about this as well.
For one thing, Joseph had two sons.

Gen 41:50; Now before the year of famine came, two sons were born to Joseph, whom Asenath, the daughter of Potiphera priest of On, bore to him.
Gen 41:51; Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh, “For,” he said, “God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father’s household.”
Gen 41:52; He named the second Ephraim, “For,” he said, “God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

Manasseh and Epraim... who later became two of the tribes.

============================================================================================

So all of this happened in Genesis... the first book of the Bible...
but by the time we get to Revelation... the last book of the Bible...
As @amadeus2 mentioned in another thread. The tribe of Dan is gone.

Rev 7:4; And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Rev 7:5; from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
Rev 7:6; from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
Rev 7:7; from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
Rev 7:8; from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

It seems Manasseh took the place of Dan here.

So how did all of this happen?

 

[B-A-C]

Abraham had another (some say.. somewhat illegitimate) son named Ishmael.
(Gen 16:11-16; Gen 17:17-26; etc.. )

But he is not considered a Jew. He is not a son of Jacob.
However he has many many descendants who are still in the world today.

 

[amadeus2]

One good place to start looking for information regarding the tribes is where Jacob (Israel) speaks (prophesies) about them here:

Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
Gen 49:2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.
Gen 49:3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:
Gen 49:4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.
Gen 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.
Gen 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.
Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
Gen 49:13 Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon.
Gen 49:14 Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:
Gen 49:15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.
Gen 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Gen 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
Gen 49:19 Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.
Gen 49:20 Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.
Gen 49:21 Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.
Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
Gen 49:25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Gen 49:26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
Gen 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

 

[amadeus2]

Another good place is where Moses speaks (prophesies) about each them:

Deu 33:6 Let Reuben live, and not die; and let not his men be few.
Deu 33:7 And this is the blessing of Judah: and he said, Hear, LORD, the voice of Judah, and bring him unto his people: let his hands be sufficient for him; and be thou an help to him from his enemies.
Deu 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
Deu 33:9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
Deu 33:10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.
Deu 33:11 Bless, LORD, his substance, and accept the work of his hands: smite through the loins of them that rise against him, and of them that hate him, that they rise not again.
Deu 33:12 And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.
Deu 33:13 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
Deu 33:14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
Deu 33:15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
Deu 33:16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
Deu 33:17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Deu 33:18 And of Zebulun he said, Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out; and, Issachar, in thy tents.
Deu 33:19 They shall call the people unto the mountain; there they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness: for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas, and of treasures hid in the sand.
Deu 33:20 And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head.
Deu 33:21 And he provided the first part for himself, because there, in a portion of the lawgiver, was he seated; and he came with the heads of the people, he executed the justice of the LORD, and his judgments with Israel.
Deu 33:22 And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan.
Deu 33:23 And of Naphtali he said, O Naphtali, satisfied with favour, and full with the blessing of the LORD: possess thou the west and the south.
Deu 33:24 And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil.
Deu 33:25 Thy shoes shall be iron and brass; and as thy days, so shall thy strength be.

 

[amadeus2]

In Jacob's tally in Gen 49 there are 12 named in following order:
1) Reuben
2) Simeon
3) Levi
4) Judah
5) Zebulon
6) Issachar
7) Dan
8) Gad
9) Asher
10) Naphtali
11) Joseph
12) Benjamin

This is the same 12 as per birth children in Gen 29-30, 35, but in a different order

 

[B-A-C]

It's interesting each tribe was known for something unique.

The tribe of Dan for example were skilled craftsmen. Exod 31:6; Exod 38:23;
(The tribe of Dan was also guilty of setting up idols at one time - Judges 18:30; )

The sons of Issachar were known for being tactical "who understood the times, with knowledge of
what Israel should do". - 1 Chron 12:32;

Of course the Levites were the priests. - Numb 3:6; Numb 3:32; Numb 16:10; Deut 18:1;
The Levites were also known for not receiving a land inheritance like the other tribes - Deut 18:1;

The tribe of Judah is known for being the tribe that Jesus descended from - Heb 7:14; Rev 5:5;

 

[amadeus2]

In Moses' tally in Deut 33 there are 11 named in following order:

1) Reuben
2) Judah
3) Levi
4) Benjamin
5) Joseph
6) Zebulon
7) Issachar
8) Gad
9) Dan
10) Naphtali
11) Asher
12) ?

Number 12 is missing. Moses only mentions those 11. The one missing here is Simeon. Perhaps this relates to the time Simeon was held prisoner in Egypt by Joseph while the other brothers returned to Canaan.

 

[amadeus2]

It's interesting each tribe was known for something unique.
The tribe of Judah is known for being the tribe that Jesus descended from - Heb 7:14; Rev 5:5;

Reuben was the first born but he lost his double portion to Joseph because he fornicated with one of his father's concubines: Gen 35:22
Perhaps the next two in order of birth, Simeon and Levi, were set aside because they took their own vengeance on behalf of their sister: Gen 34:25-27
The next in order of birth was Judah. He became the primary heir to the blessing (Jacob took this from Esau) without the double portion (Jacob also took this from Esau).

 

[amadeus2]

The twelve tribes, I am by no means an expert of this subject, but it
might be interesting to see if we can learn anything here...

Gen 41:51; Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh, “For,” he said, “God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father’s household.”
Gen 41:52; He named the second Ephraim, “For,” he said, “God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

Manasseh and Epraim... who later became two of the tribes.

......
It seems Manasseh took the place of Dan here.

So how did all of this happen?

Because of Reuben's fornication with Bilhah [Gen 35:22] it seems, Jacob gave the double portion due to the first born [Deut 21:17] instead to Joseph. That is to say, the inheritance at Jacob's death was divided among his sons. Twice as much was due his first born as to the others. Reuben received only a single portion while Joseph received two portions.

What Jacob did was effectively adopted his two grandsons (Ephraim and Manasseh) [Gen 48:5] making each of them equal to his natural sons for inheritance purposes. Joseph's own share was to be have been his first born's (Manasseh's) share, but Jacob for some reason switched the two boys treating the younger Ephraim [Gen 48:14] as the first born.

Undoubtedly all of these little quirks have significance and perhaps someone can let us know what they are. What is God telling us?

 

[Waggles]

But he is not considered a Jew. He is not a son of Jacob.
However he has many many descendants who are still in the world today.

Ishmael is the father of the Arabs - cousins to the Jews through Abraham.
This is why the Arabs claim the birthright promises through Ismael and reject the lineage through Isaac.
Hence the enmity and conflict even today some 4,000 years later between Islamic Arabs and the Jews.

 

[amadeus2]

In Moses' tally in Deut 33 there are 11 named in following order:

1) Reuben
2) Judah
3) Levi
4) Benjamin
5) Joseph
6) Zebulon
7) Issachar
8) Gad
9) Dan
10) Naphtali
11) Asher
12) ?

Number 12 is missing. Moses only mentions those 11. The one missing here is Simeon. Perhaps this relates to the time Simeon was held prisoner in Egypt by Joseph while the other brothers returned to Canaan.

Perhaps the missing Simeon relates to the missing Judas Iscariot after he took his own life as then for a time there were only eleven apostles. Simeon along with Levi was a part of the cruel scheme to kill all of a people because one of them had raped their sister.

 

[milordsheep]

Perhaps the missing Simeon relates to the missing Judas Iscariot after he took his own life as then for a time there were only eleven apostles. Simeon along with Levi was a part of the cruel scheme to kill all of a people because one of them had raped their sister.

That is an interesting parallel ....

 

[amadeus2]

but by the time we get to Revelation... the last book of the Bible...
As @amadeus2 mentioned in another thread. The tribe of Dan is gone.
.....
So how did all of this happen?

As I was reading the various posts on this thread I noticed the "Similar Threads" shown at the bottom including "The Thirteen Tribes of Israel", which gives a good explanation with scriptures regarding the loss of the tribe of Dan.

 

[Don nuzum]

After the reign of Solomon, his son Reahboam took the throne. It is recorded in 1Kings 12:1-20 that the northern tribes separated from Judah, thus the land of Israel divided into two nations. You had the ten tribes in the north and the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin in the south.

As time went on the northern tribes fell into idolatry. God sent prophet after prophet to them to warn them. Finally he gave up and divorced the northern ten tribes.

God sent the Assyrians down in three consecutive waves and finally took the northern tribes captive.

At the time there was trouble between the Assyrians and the Medes. There were constant border skirmishes between the two. So the Assyrians took the captive Israelites and placed then on their boarder as a buffer zone between them and the Medes. In later years these captive Israelites, which by that time were called Sacae or Sakki ,(being interpreted as “sons of Isaac”), made a pact with the Medes to help them fight against the Assyrians. After winning the war the Medes gave them their freedom

It is recorded in 2nd Estras of the Apocrypha

40.Those are the ten tribes, which were carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters, and so came they into another land.

41But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,

42That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.

43And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.

44For the most High then showed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.

For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.

They traveled north for one and a half years, settling in the region at the basis of the Caucuses Mountain. This is where this particular group disappears from history.

Coincidentally, one hundred years later, millions of nomadic people began migrating westward toward northwestern Europe and what we call today Britain. These people broke off into many factions. The following are those factions:

Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vandals, Danes, Normans, Cimmerians, Scythians, Gauls, Lombards, Belgae, Danaoi, Massagetae, Milesians, Masilia, Sarmatians, Germani, Goths, Franks and other assorted "Barbarians" including the so-called "Germanic" tribes) are the rootstock of today's

 

[B-A-C]

It is recorded in 2nd Estras of the Apocrypha

You may be right, but I tend to take the apocryphal books with a grain of salt. The other thing I notice about Jews,
is that they always know if they are Jews. Israel didn't even exist as a nation for about 1,000 years, and yet, all Jews
know whether or not they are Jewish. I'm not sure any Anglo-Saxon/European descendants are really Jewish.

Rev 2:9; ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not,....

Rev 3:9; Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

I think people who claim to be Jewish, but are not will stand before God one day and be accountable for it.

 

[Don nuzum]

You misunderstand. These people don't claim to be Jewish. After they separated into two nations in the reign of Rheaboam God has always called the northern ten tribes "Israel", and Jacob. They don't even know who they are in Christ. They were divorced from God back in 700 bc or abouts. They are remarried to God through Christ. If you are not in Christ DNA is not gonna help you. It is only important so far as God's promises to Abraham about these people in the last days. You see, there were two bloodlines in the house of Judah. The Phares and the Zora. Christ came through the Phares from his mother Mary. The Zora family left Egypt when things got dicey after Joseph died. I believe they went to northwestern Europe, namely Ireland. That is why when God transplanted the Throne of David from Jerusalem to Ireland the Judah bloodline was already there. Jeremiah took the two daughter of Zedekiah, one to Ireland and one to Scotland to refresh the bloodline. remember when God commissioned Jeremiah: 1;10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Ireland and Scotland is where he "rebuilt".

 

[Beameup]

There were some righteous Jews that migrated from Israel to Judah because of the idolatry and they wanted to worship in the Temple, so the "10 Tribes" were represented in Judah.

 

[Don nuzum]

Hi Beameup, you are right of course. There were also some levites that stayed with the lower tribes. It is easy to get confused about this subject because the world view of who the Jews are is different than God's prophetic view. The term Jew was first used in relation to the house of Judah. After the tribes split into two nations the term was used to indicate the southern kingdom of Judah which included the tribe of Benjamin and some levites that refused to worship idols. God always called to the northern ten tribes as The House of Israel and the southern tribes as the House of Judah. Eventually the world view amalgamated all the tribes into Jews. But to understand God's prophetic picture you must keep the tribes separated into two nations.

 

[Beameup]

Hi Beameup, you are right of course. There were also some levites that stayed with the lower tribes. It is easy to get confused about this subject because the world view of who the Jews are is different than God's prophetic view. The term Jew was first used in relation to the house of Judah. After the tribes split into two nations the term was used to indicate the southern kingdom of Judah which included the tribe of Benjamin and some levites that refused to worship idols. God always called to the northern ten tribes as The House of Israel and the southern tribes as the House of Judah. Eventually the world view amalgamated all the tribes into Jews. But to understand God's prophetic picture you must keep the tribes separated into two nations.

I don't separate them because they are not separated in Revelation 7.
PS: I refer to them as Hebrews, as does the epistle by that title.
PPS: I suspect that there will be genetic markers discovered which
will assist in the clear ID of each "tribe" prior to the Tribulation.