SUBMISSION AND AUTHORITY

[evangelistally]

Dear Guys

I wonder if we can tackle the issue of submission within the church setting, and while we are on submission i would also like us to tackle spiritual abuse within the church. I have for all my years serving the Lord have seen some strange things yes very strange things under the name of submission.

So what is true biblical submission? do we submit to God and submit to man, where do we draw the line? where does the balance come?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So what is true biblical submission? do we submit to God and submit to man, where do we draw the line? where does the balance come?

I can find my own way back to Egypt just fine so i don't need a man to guide me.
The work of God is to believe on the one whom God sent.
God sent Jesus who sent the Holy Spirit who equips and sends us.

Once we are free from the bondage of fear and unbelief and receive the Holy Spirit we can begin to truly submit to God.
Until then we are at the mercy of the imaginations of men(including self) who have mortgages to pay and ego's to pump.
Submitting to your own personal opinions and judgements is also submitting to man.

 

[amadeus2]

What is our limit when it come to submission? Below is one of my testimonies which seems to fit the subject:

Over 35 years ago, my wife and I were new to an assembly of a particular denomination. Before entering that place I had never in my life read a Bible even though I was 32 years old and, of course all of the congregation and the pastor knew that.

I never questioned my pastor's authority because I did not know at the time what authority he had. I was interested in learning about and asked him privately to explain what the basis for his authority was. I had only been in his congregation for a few weeks at the time. I expected and hoped to receive an answer from scripture. Instead, He, apparently, not understanding what it was I wanted, didn't answer me at all and left the room. It was just about time for service to start so I went and rejoined my wife sitting in a pew in the sanctuary.

Shortly after the start of the service the pastor went to the podium and speaking before the entire congregation rebuked me saying that I had questioned his authority. I was completely stunned as was my wife for I had already explained to her what had occurred just few minutes earlier.

Still, I would have thought that the man had simply not understood me. That was not the case as I discovered. I have never been a person easily angered and I did not get angry then, but I cannot say the same for my wife.

In the 21st chapter of John, Jesus told Peter once to feed His lambs and then He told him twice to feed His sheep. It was a simple command. I guess that at the time I was rebuked, I was a lamb and I was very hungry, and my pastor did feed me. He never did answer my question. I did not leave the church because I did not know enough to understand what had happened. I am not certain that I do even today.

I hold no hard feelings against the man. Rather, I prayed for him for many years after he had finally driven my wife and me from his assembly. He is probably dead now since he was quite a few years older than me. I hope that sometime before the end he learned just what it was that God wanted Him to do.

 

[RJ]

Dear Guys

I wonder if we can tackle the issue of submission within the church setting, and while we are on submission i would also like us to tackle spiritual abuse within the church. I have for all my years serving the Lord have seen some strange things yes very strange things under the name of submission.

So what is true biblical submission? do we submit to God and submit to man, where do we draw the line? where does the balance come?

I say submit to no one but to the one who is in you!

 

[evangelistally]

Guys thanks so much for your opnion, i agree totally that we must submit to God and him alone. Do we obey man or God? the answer to that is obey God! But biblical submission in the church is needed and important, i always say if you cant submit to man, when God speaks how are you able to submit to his voice, so there is apart in us where we must submit to man, i have been in submission for the past 9years in ministry and i dont have a problem with submission.

My concern for the church is this! i think that Pastor now try and take the place of God in our lives, if you my brother or sister have heard from God, and you tell your pastor in some cases your pastor would give the counsel of God, but in most cases they will tell you that you never hear from God and they going to pray about it not just for confirmation but for your answer, and if God dont speak to him it means that the Lord wasnt really speaking to you. i get upset in that area, are you not able to hear from God having been matured in your faith? have learnt the scri[pture? something that we have to look into and really seek God for.

Lets discuss more and see through scripture what God will open up to us.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

My concern for the church is this! i think that Pastor now try and take the place of God in our lives, if you my brother or sister have heard from God, and you tell your pastor in some cases your pastor would give the counsel of God, but in most cases they will tell you that you never hear from God and they going to pray about it not just for confirmation but for your answer, and if God dont speak to him it means that the Lord wasnt really speaking to you. i get upset in that area, are you not able to hear from God having been matured in your faith?

The pastor would be denying the person a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit so that would be quenching the spirit.
If I was receiving a paycheck for a position in a particular ministry then I would certainly have to give leeway to the authority of those paying it.
I agree with you that there is a point where a mature christian should be allowed to make his own mistakes-err-I mean decisions.
I once had a pastor tell me "if you don't outgrow me I didn't do my job".
It's ok for a ministry to operate on a level that caters to immature and reach out to those in rebellion but it's not ok for the mature to stay in the nursery unless they work there.

 

[RJ]

My concern for the church is this! i think that Pastor now try and take the place of God in our lives,

If you find that at any level, leave that church!

 

[ushalk]

I think the first thing that needs to be discovered here is what is church? What is fellowship and what is authority? What does it state in the Bible about those questions in that order? Then we need to ask if what we are seeing in the buildings is actually backed up by the word of god? This is going to point to many truths many people do not want out there. Especially leaders in the buildings.