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Sin = battle?

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I found myself looking back on a time in my life and classifying it as a struggle/battle that i had to go through for a reason. AT THE SAME time some would argue I would have never went through this situation had I not chosen the sin I was in at the time.

So, when we choose sin, is that part of God's plan? Is it His plan that we sin? Or does He just use the sin we choose to teach us as well? OR-- maybe we don't learn at all from sinning, but only hurt ourselves and others. In the case that sinning is part of the plan to teach us to trust Him more, then do we really even CHOOSE sin, or is it all already laid out for us in His plans?

I think I know where I stand on this, but I am curious if anyone has an opinion or could enlighten me with some scripture references.

Thanks,

Don't freak out and then write me some heated response, I'm just honestly curious about what people think and if what we think is scripturally based or our own opinions. Thanks,

In Jesus,
AJ
 
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hey rescued, We choose to sin, never ever ever ever...infinity is it in God's plan for us to sin..EVERRRRRRRR...:smile:...i will give you a more detailed answer, soon with scriptures, and the consequences of sinning and stuff like that....:smile:...let me do my little study and put it all together...:smile:

Jam 1:13 Let no one say, when tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God is incapable of being tempted by evil, and He Himself tempts no one.

Pro 15:9 The way of the wicked is hateful to Jehovah, but He loves him who pursues righteousness.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most positively, I say to you*, that every one committing [or, practicing] sin is a slave of sin.
1Jo 3:8 The one practicing sin is from the Devil, because the Devil [has been] sinning from [the] beginning. For this [reason] the Son of God was revealed, so that He should destroy the works of the Devil.
 
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My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defence - Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the whole world.

[John, 1John2:1-2 NIV].

I prefer Propitiation rather than atoning but I can never say it never mind spell it!

John obviously expected us to fall with sin after our Salvation and gave us the statement above that is used in my Church before the General Confession.

Would that the battle were over at the time of Salvation. But no He left us with our free will in our Salvation? And we did didn't we!

But blessed assurance Jesus is mine, (Now where did that come from I wonder?)!!!

Yours in His Tender-loving-kindness!

Colin.
 
Member
sade said:
hey rescued, We choose to sin, never ever ever ever...infinity is it in God's plan for us to sin..EVERRRRRRRR...:smile:...i will give you a more detailed answer, soon with scriptures, and the consequences of sinning and stuff like that....:smile:...let me do my little study and put it all together...:smile:

Hey there sade,

I never said I agreed with any of the options. I think that some people have the wrong idea about their own circumstances. They think they are being tested, but really they are choosing sin. My curiosity is for you people on websites like this. I wonder what the common belief is. Can sin be in God's will? AND frankly--why couldn't it? He has control of everything.

"The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in His hands." John 3:35

Doesn't that include us?

Like I said, I know people have opinions on this, but when will we stop giving answers based on what we THINK and start replying with the TRUTH of God?

Just my prayer for the world, and for my own life as well,

Peace in Jesus,
AJ
 
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Hi Rescued,

Thats the trouble with us, "We can not stop thinking, even here?"

I wonder if thinking is part of 'Original Sin'? (Difficult to stop thinking without dieing!).

Quoting Eve, (No not you Eve, the other one!), "......but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
[God, through Eve, Genesis.3:3 NIV.].

Tempting isn't it!

Yours in His Tender-loving-kindness,

Colin.

PS. Thank you for this Post, Rescued. Makes you think doesn't it???
 
Member
May peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon you all !

I liked the reply from Sade. Now I would like to add a few more explanation, how I look at it.
I believe that God Almighty made us with free right to choose. God does love us and want us to be righteous. For this reason He guided us and warned us through His scriptures and Prophets. At the same time He has also let the devil go astray and gave him(devil) the chance to drag us to the path of sin( and made sin more attractive).

So how we are tested on each step of our life, we have to choose between right( God's way) and wrong( devil's way). So, this whole life is a mere test therefore nothing here is eternal. What is eternal here, are our deeds( right and wrong) which will decide our eternal fate on the day of judgment.
God Almighty is All ware and All powerful, that He knows everything from the begining to the end. He knows already, what would we decide(choose) and He had already written it with Him.
But we cannot blame God, for our sins and this argument(blame) is not going to help us on the day of judgment. God Almighty never does unjustice. He warns everyone and He shows everyone the right path. But it is us, who rejects it and choose the way of the Devil. And God never guides them who don't want them to be guided.He let them go astray until they are willing to repent and be honest with ourselves. Every sin drowns you more into the wrong trap while every righteous deed makes you more inclind to the God Almighty. So it is us who are responsible for our fate( and sins) but God already knows it ( our fate) through His High Knowledge.
I hope the things must be quite clear.

May God Almighty guide us to the straight path and let us be among the righteous. Ameen!
 
Member
God is Good....
God does not desire that anyone should perish, that is why he is very patient with us when we sin. He wants us to come to repentance. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord of the promise is not slow, as some deem slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not having purposed any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
That is why it seems that sin goes unpunished sometimes.....but don't mistake God's patience with us when we sin, for tolerance for sin as some people mistakenly do.
God is in control of everything else but man's free will. Because HE chose to give us free will. He hasn't made us into puppets and he wasn't about to change that.
God desires that none should perish, but it is up to us to come to repentance. Even though God desire that all the world to go to heaven.....not all will right?


I will research more scriptures soon and post more soon.
 
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hopeful said:
What is eternal here, are our deeds( right and wrong) which will decide our eternal fate on the day of judgment.
Definitely not exactly true. Our deeds actually have nothing to do with where we will be for eternity. Faith in Christ is the only way to heaven.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—" --Ephesians 2:8

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." --John 14:6

However, I do agree with a lot of what you said. Satan tempts us to choose wrong, even when we know the RIGHT we should do. Paul summed this up in Romans,

"For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." --Romans 7:19

There is always a constant struggle between good and evil, but the confidence we have as believers in Christ is that the VICTORY has already been won.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain." --I Corinthians 15:54-58

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." --Romans 8:38-39

I truly believe the only trustworthy answer comes from Scripture.

In Jesus,
AJ
 
Member
Predestination, Why Bother!

Hi Rescued,

I would love to argue with you re your last post but I cannot! If we are predestined by God or how many brownie points I can get by being good I'm lost! It does not matter anyway because if I'm saved, I'm saved?

There are some hard words around in Scripture but one thing is certain. If I believe in my heart and witness with my voice that Jesus is Lord and I accept Him as my personal Saviour. I AM SAVED. My works may go up in flames like Cain's but I AM SAVED! I may not be the nicest man in the world, (For which I'm deeply sorry for), but I AM SAVED.

Yes I want to do that which the Lord would have me do? But when I fall flat on my face, I AM SAVED, Alleluia!

God does not hold a court or a debating society when I finally arrive in front of Him at the judgement seat! If I hold to my Salvation and confess my Sins to Him, not to you, for you are not my judge or priest, I AM SAVED.

Singed possibly but saved.

I live in a Church which states,

"Not every deadly sin willingly committed after Baptism is sin against the Holy Ghost, and unpardonable.

Wherefore the grant of repentance is not to be denied to such as fall into sin after Baptism.

After we have received the Holy Ghost, we may depart from grace given, and fall into sin, and by the grace of God we may arise again, and amend our lives.

And therefore they are to be condemned, which say, they can no more sin as long as they live here, or deny the place of forgiveness to such as truly repent."

Here the Church Fathers with Paul have given you and I hope of Salvation,
despite ourselves and our good works pure and faulty,
no matter we are saved.

I was going to write on Predestination as against Election here, but I believe the lord is calling me back to Scripture here since few will be of my Christian tradition reading here I expect!

First may I say that I subscribe to all quoted Scripture above in 'Rescued's' Post!!!

52 "In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

"Death has been swallowed up in victory."

55 "Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm.

Let nothing move you.

Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord,

because you know that your labour in the Lord is not in vain.

[Paul, 1Cor. 15: 52-58 NIV. ].

Yours in His Tender-loving-kindness.

Colin2000.
 
Member
rescued said:
Definitely not exactly true. Our deeds actually have nothing to do with where we will be for eternity. Faith in Christ is the only way to heaven......
In Jesus,
AJ
Actually ....the unsaved are already predestained to go to hell....wheather they are self righteous or chief of sinners....wheather they do good all their life or not...wickedness was predestained for hell and righteousness only and only through Jesus was predestained for heaven!
But the saved will not be judge according to wheather they once had "faith" in Jesus Christ!....they will be judge according to their "faithfulness to Jesus" in other words...their deads which would be...to continue to seek honor and immorality, to persue peace with all and holiness, endure persecution etc...dont get me wrong...none of this cannot be done and be pleasing to God if it is wirhout first having Faith in Jesus! works withot faith is dead...just as faith without works is dead.
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also one's faith without such works is dead.
Did i say every christian have to go out and feed the poor because Jesus said so in the Bible, otherwise you wont go to heaven? NO! I am talking about living in the Spirit of God..abnd not sinning.
Rom 2:6 who 'will render to each [person] according to his works,' [Psalm 62:12; Prov 24:12]
Rom 2:7 to the [ones] on the one hand [who] by perseverance of good work seek glory and honor and incorruptibility [or, immortality], eternal life; (ALT)
Mat 16:27 "For the Son of Humanity is about to be coming in the glory of His Father, with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his work.
Rev 22:12 "Listen! I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with me, to render [or, repay] to each as his work will be [fig., according to his deeds].

Heb 12:14 Be pursuing peace with all [people], and the holiness, without which no one will see the Lord,

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

We can only do all these only by the Grace of God through our Faith in Jesus!

Dont forget, not because there is a battle with sin and the flesh..means that we dont need to win over it. We have to win over it, and we can..because sin no longer rule over a christian, therefore through Christ a christian can win over anyyyyyyyyyy sin! Rom 6:14 For sin will not exercise lordship over you*, for you* are not under law _but_ under grace.

and if we do sin....we have Christ who is faithful to forgive us IF we confess our sin to him! 1Jo 1:9 If we are confessing our sins, He is faithful [or, trustworthy] and righteous that He shall forgive us our sins and cleanse [or, purge] us from all unrighteousness.


If I sin(1 John 2:1), and I claim I have no sin, then I deceive myself and the truth is not in me(1 John 1:8 and 10) . But if I confess that sin, Jesus is faithful and will forgive and cleanse me form that sin(1 john 1:9).
 
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sade said:
But the saved will not be judge according to wheather they once had "faith" in Jesus Christ!....they will be judge according to their "faithfulness to Jesus" .
Ephesians 1:13 says, "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,"

The Greek word for "seal" here literally means something that can never be broken. The strongest seal. Now, if we are marked with this "seal", how then would this seal ever cease to prove true? The answer lies in the vvery next verse--

"Holy Spirit...." ",who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory." v. 14 (Ephesians 1)

Having believed the truth of the Gospel we were marked with a seal [the Holy Spirit] who is a deposit GUARENTEEING our inheritance. This hardly sounds arguable. Once you have faith, you are guarenteed the inheritance.

Some might say, "Well, then where's the motivation? Why continue to do good? Why not just believe once and then go on sinning?"

Oh no. Paul addresses this in Romans-- "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" Romans 6: 1 & 2

When we believe we receive a deposit of the Holy Spirit who works in us and the more you're around someone you love, the more you desire to be like them. ALSO

Believing in God is not the end of the story-- "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." James 2:19

"Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:15-17

You can have faith but no action to back up that faith, in which case the Bible says your faith is dead. You see, faith is enough---but we have to walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk. If we truly have faith in Christ we will WANT to do good works.

"...do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did." James 2:20-22

NOW--

The Bible is VERY clear that we will be rewarded in heaven based on our deeds on earth---BUT our admittance into heaven is NOT based on deeds. ONLY the rewards we get once we are there are based on deeds on earth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

The passages you posted in Romans are not pertaining to salvation at all---they are relating to JUDGMENT. "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." Romans 2:1

The most important and profound statement of that passage actually lies towards the end...

"For God does not show favoritism." Romans 2:11

I hope this helps to clear at least some of the confusion up. I knowI don't have all the answers---but the Bible does. I realize many would say the Bible's truth's are relative to the reader's interpretation, but I know that God speaks through His written words [the Bible] and I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to guide our minds when we read Scripture.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16

Have a great night,

In Jesus,
AJ
 
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May peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon you all.

@ RESCUED!

Dear, I am not neglecting the importance of believe. That is the basis for your righteous deeds.
But I believe, that mere believe is not a guarranty. Here are few verses from the Holy Bible.

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
 
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Having a belief in Christ is the Basis of a relationship with Christ it is not the basis of our righteoius deeds. We start with beleiving that Christ died for our sins on the Cross, taking our own deserving punishment for the sins we commit and that He rose again on the 3rd day and offers us eternal life when we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour. Once we take that step in Believing in Him acts will follow.
You quote Matthew 5:17-20 so my question is: what are the righteous acts of the Pharisees?
Do you Hopeful want eternal life? Do you want a relationship with a God who does not condem us but love us? What do you want Hopeful?
 
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Good Works Religions?

Hi Hopeful,

You say, "I am not neglecting the importance of believe.
That is the basis for your righteous deeds.
But I believe, that mere believe is not a guaranty."

This has always been a problem in Christianity and it's Christian Fractions within it over the last two thousand years.

"MERE 'BELIEF' IS THE ONLY GUARANTY OF 'SALVATION' THROUGH 'SAVING GRACE'!"

The Christian Families problem arises out of cobbling together verses of Scripture taken out of context, (You name it I would probably be able to support it using Scriptural Verse!).

But, but, but, anyone with any knowledge of Jesus and passages of Scripture should be able straightway to see through it!

There is no reason why Christians shouldn't use verses of Scripture to strengthen and give comfort to the Assembly of Christians here!

But to argue a case for or against,

1. Saved by Grace.

2. Grace with good works.

3. Good works alone, without Grace.

By using verses taken out of context favouring any one of these arguments will not resolve anything that is outside of Christendom,(The Christian Family.).

For example when I quote John 3:15-17 I expect and assume that the reader has knowledge of,

1. Who is Jesus talking to? (Jew, Gentile, Roman?).

2. What is He referring to? (Salvation, Hebrew Doctrine, Gentile Paganism?).

3. Why is He saying it? (What is the point, Is it of tradition, Is it just to correct a plain worldly wrong?).

Please do not take offence as a member of Islam! All you can be expected to do is take what is written here at face value, (Is English your second language you are doing very well!).

Taking myself as an example before I excepted His Saving Grace, I was an out an out Darwinian Atheist. Why because that is what my education system was pedalling as truth at the time.

On the other hand you might just be approaching Christ from the treadmill of,


1. The Qur'an venerated by Islam, (The Holy Bible is not venerated as part of the Godhead, like the Qur'an?).

2. Five daily prayers, (Not mentioned in the Qur'an but taken to be practised by the Prophet, so shall we?).

3. The Five Pillars of Islam, (With the general Doctrine developed out of them?).

But most of all you accept Allah as your God as part of Qur'an, don't you?

The point being that Christianity is born out of the completion of Judaism. "It is finished and Jesus finished it!" We are not Israelites born of the Aaron Priesthood but we are born of the High Priest, Jesus Christ! We do not have to work for our Salvation His Saving Grace has opened the door of Heaven for us!

He is the Pure Lamb, The atoning Sacrifice for our sins, PRAISE THE LORD! It is over. No more Sacrifices, He died for our sins and now, (Exciting isn't it!), We are redeemed those of us who believe and accept His gift freely given and freely received!!!

Now we the believers can start thinking and praying about what fruits does He want us to take into Heaven? Not browny points scored by us as good works to sit at a higher table in Heaven at the Banquet. But the Fruits of the Spirit that are born out of the Love of our God and the love for our God and most of all our neighbour who needs our love, our good works, and His Grace!

But don't forget He expects us to clean ourselves out. Then clean ourselves continually out by confessing our sins to him! And it would help if we also made an imperfect effort at changing our ways with the help of My Lord, The Holy Spirit dwelling with in me?

1. That is the Saving Grace of Salvation without good works.

2. The Christian Believers walk. Regularly having to go back to Him after falling off our perch of righteousness, and having to clean ourselves of sin by confessing them to Him! Praise the Lord!!!

3. Can you as a Christian bind up the broken hearted wounds when you see him/her in the street, or do you pass over onto the other side of the road to avoid the problem. But Alleluia, Your still Saved when you make a right pigs-ear of a mess of it all,

Provided you take the mess to the Lord and confess the sin to God your Father, through the Blessed Saviour Jesus Christ His Son, and you walk with the Holy Spirit your Comforter!!!

Back to Earth,

"My wife spent a good half hour describing how my Son-in-laws car had broken when his radiator sprung a leak as he was taken his two children, (Must not forget my grandchildren), home. Steam coming out of the radiator, got home on a wing and a prayer!

This was after they had all forgotten my granddaughters bag with her leotard, shoes and gym kit for ballet and gym, (Hope this Computer can spell all this?). When my wife finished the half hour oration, She ended with,

"Isn't it good, the Lord is in Control! My retort, "Well I'm glad somebody is!" Ahh well Hopeful, back to the Mercy Seat!!!

Yours Hopeful in His Name,

Colin2000.

PS. There may be tinkering later, my dinner has just arrived!
 
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