Sheol, Hades, and the Lake of Fire

[B-A-C]

It seems there is some confusion about these words....
In the Old Testament, Sheol simply means .. the grave, pit, the earth, it's frequently used a place you go when you die. It's mentioned 65 times in the Old Testament.

Some people believe that when you die, (when your physical body dies) your spiritual remain awake,
conscious, aware of your surroundings.... some people believe that when the saints die, they go immediately
to heaven (more about that later) but for now I want to focus on those who aren't going to heaven ( or wherever it is you call the place the place the dead saints go).

I don't see anywhere in the old Testament, that people were "alive in their spirit" while they were in Sheol.
The word Sheol is always capitalized in the Bible, it's a proper noun, meaning that it is the name of a place.

There are of course verses that say God opened up the earth, and people fell into Sheol alive ( Numb 16:30-33 ) ... well, they may have been alive when they fell into the hole in the ground (the pit ) but, Numb 16:33;
says when the earth closed up over them they perished.

Job 24:19; says Sheol consumes those who sin. Psalms 9:17; says the wicked will return to Sheol
(the meaning is usually taken as they will return to the dust they came from, at least their physical
bodies will).

One of the great verses is Psalms 49:15; it says the Lord will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol.
In other words, death has no power over them (many verses about this in the New Testament).

Another often quoted verse about Sheol is Isaiah 5:14; which talks about Sheol getting larger
(more about that later... see Habak 2:5; ).

In Isa 28:15; it says the people of Judah made a covenant with death and Sheol, they believe God will not reach them there (in other words, they believed once you're dead, you're dead).
In verse 16 we have the famous prophecy of the cornerstone (Jesus).
Because of Jesus their pact with death and Sheol can be cancelled (verse 18)
This is similar to Hosea 13:14; which is also repeated in the new Testament.

So it seems in the old testament, most believed you simply went to the earth (grave) when you died.
This isn't to say they didn't believe in an afterlife... both David and Isaiah say we can be redeemed from
Sheol.

Another confusing verse is Jonah 2:2; Jonah says I cried for help from the depth of Sheol, however
he is saying this while he is in the stomach of the great fish. So it possibly means... I am on deaths
doorstep, and you heard my cry.

People could be raised up from Sheol.. such as Samuel, when Saul had the witch (seer) of Endor
call him up from the dead. ( 1 Sam 28:3-5; )

But I don't see anywhere in the old testament that people were spiritually aware and conscious in the ground.

 

[B-A-C]

In the New testament, Jesus talks about a place called Hades. Of course Sheol is a Hebrew word, and Hades is a Greek
word, some people believe that is the only difference... However Jesus mentions things about Hades that were never
mentioned about Sheol, Hades is mentioned 10 times in the New testament... the first 5 times are by Jesus.

Some believe that Hades is a different place than Sheol, however in Acts 2:27-31; this is quoting Psalms 16:10;
In Psalms it uses the word Sheol, in Acts it uses the word Hades. ( also see Acts 13:34-35; )

One story that causes some confusion is the story of Lazarus and the Rich man in Luke 16.
It does seem that the rich man was able to be aware and conscious of his surroundings and even have a conversation
with Lazarus. The Hades in this story appears to be a place of torment and flames. There is a chasm between
Hades and Paradise (also called the bosom of Abraham in some Bibles).

One of the great prophecies of Psa 16:10; is that even though we may be in Sheol for a while, the Lord will eventually come
get us.. this is explained beautifully in Acts 2:31; it says David was looking ahead to the future and spoke of the resurrection
of the Christ. Rev 1:18; is the finalization of this, Jesus has the keys of death and Hades.

Now of course the dead saints will be raised at the resurrection. But the Bible says the wicked/evil will be raised also.
( John 5:29; John 11:24; Rev 20:12-13; )

... to be continued... out of time this morning.

 

[B-A-C]

I was asked once, why do a study on Hell and the Lake of Fire? None of us Christians are going there.
Well, that may be true... but many other people are headed there.

Many people of course don't believe in the Bible, or Jesus, or God, or hell. But just because they don't believe in it
doesn't make it less real. Part of this study will show that the punishment for rejecting Jesus is eternal.
It is a place or torment, gnashing of teeth, pain and suffering. (verses to follow about this.. )

It seems in today's society we often hear things like, shouldn't we just love them anyway? (yes we should)
Unfortunately, to most of these people, loving them means approving of what they are doing.
Love to some people means letting others do whatever they feel is right... (after all it isn't hurting anyone, right?)
It may not be hurting them now, but some day they will be judged... all of us will be.
Some of us will have Jesus standing as our advocate and defense against the accuser.
But some of us won't.... these people are on their own... they will be eternally punished for their sin.
Have you ever burned your finger? So bad that it had a blister on it for 3 or 4 days. How about a 3rd degree
sunburn? Imagine feeling this pain for eternity. Your entire body.

So which is loving them more? Letting them do whatever they want and suffer for eternity.
Or telling them what they are doing is wrong and there is a price to pay.
My feeling is that if we really love someone, we will do everything we can to keep this from happening to them.

... to be continued ... the eternal punishment.

 

[B-A-C]

There seems to be a thought among some Christians today that believers get eternal life, but sinners
just die, they just cease to exist, or they just lie in the ground.

Yet the Bible doesn't teach this. It says all the dead will be raised. The good and the bad.
It also doesn't teach the wicked will just cease to exist.

Matt 18:8; says there is an eternal fire... (why is the fire eternal, if the wicked cease to exist?)
Matt 25:41; also speaks of the eternal fire... it was prepared for the devil and his angels.
(note: some angels belong to the devil)
Some will say.. ok the fire is eternal... but the punishment isn't.
Yet 5 verses later we see in Matt 25:46; ... These will go away into ETERNAL punishment (emphasis mine).
So the punishment is eternal.
2 Thess 1:8-9; talks about those who do not obey the gospel...
Verse 9 says these will pay the penalty of ETERNAL destruction. Not just a momentary destruction.
Heb 6:2; says the judgment is eternal... it mentions this is one of the more mature teachings,
(we shouldn't stay in the elementary teachings only)

In Jude it talks about two group of beings.
The first group is people pretending to be Christians...
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation,
ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
(People who use the excuse that "grace covers everything" in order to continue in sin).
The second group here here is the angels who abandoned their proper abode and went after "strange flesh".
This is usually considered the be the angels in Genesis 6:2; who "married the daughters of men". (verse 7)
In Jude 7 we see that these are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Hebrews 10:29; talks about a more severe punishment for those who have trampled under foot the Son of God
and the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified.

There is of course the story of Lazarus and the Rich man... the rich man was in torment in these flames. ( Luke 16:24; )
The rich man isn't in the lake of fire yet, (no one is) but still he is in torment.
This could along with 2 Pet 2:9; which says God keeps the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment.

Eventually the 2nd coming of Jesus happens... ( I personally believe this is before the judgment)
and Jesus reigns on the earth for 1,000 years. ( Rev 20; ) but at the end of the 1,000 years satan is released and gathers
up a huge army, whos number is like the sands of the sea ( Rev 20:8; )
They are of course defeated, and the devil who deceived them is also thrown into the lake of fire ( Rev 20:10; )
It say the beast and the false prophet are also in the lake of fire at this time ( verse 10)
"Where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever". This apparently also includes those deceived
by the devil, and those who worshiped the beast, and those in satan's huge army... so it isn't just satan and the beast here.
They will be tormented day and night, forever and ever... it isn't just a temporary punishment.

Matt 13:41-43 Jesus talks about the angels that gather the tares out of his kingdom, the stumbling blocks and those
who continue to commit lawlessness ( Matt 13:41; ) and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place
will be weeping and gnashing of teeth ( verse 42)

If we let those we love go there.. without warning them.. are we really loving them?

 

[Curtis]

I was asked once, why do a study on Hell and the Lake of Fire? None of us Christians are going there.
Well, that may be true... but many other people are headed there.

Many people of course don't believe in the Bible, or Jesus, or God, or hell. But just because they don't believe in it
doesn't make it less real. Part of this study will show that the punishment for rejecting Jesus is eternal.
It is a place or torment, gnashing of teeth, pain and suffering. (verses to follow about this.. )

It seems in today's society we often hear things like, shouldn't we just love them anyway? (yes we should)
Unfortunately, to most of these people, loving them means approving of what they are doing.
Love to some people means letting others do whatever they feel is right... (after all it isn't hurting anyone, right?)
It may not be hurting them now, but some day they will be judged... all of us will be.
Some of us will have Jesus standing as our advocate and defense against the accuser.
But some of us won't.... these people are on their own... they will be eternally punished for their sin.
Have you ever burned your finger? So bad that it had a blister on it for 3 or 4 days. How about a 3rd degree
sunburn? Imagine feeling this pain for eternity. Your entire body.

So which is loving them more? Letting them do whatever they want and suffer for eternity.
Or telling them what they are doing is wrong and there is a price to pay.
My feeling is that if we really love someone, we will do everything we can to keep this from happening to them.

... to be continued ... the eternal punishment.

Pro 27:5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love.

 

[B-A-C]

Finally...
we have the Lake of Fire. The lake of fire is only mentioned 5 times in the Bible... all 5 times are in Revelation.
3 times in Rev 20.
So far we have been talking about Sheol/Hades these are temporary places. Where the dead (at least the unsaved dead)
go until they are resurrected. But then comes the judgment... I wont really talk about the judgment here because it is
covered in other threads. Rev 20:15; says if anyone's name is not found in the book of Life... guess where they end up?
So it may be, that even Hades is punishment and torment... but eventually even death and Hades are thrown into the
Lake of Fire ( Rev 20:14; ) If you end up here.. it's forever.

 

[B-A-C]

Some people think this just applies to a few people.. not the majority...
Yet Matthew 7 says this...

Matthew 7:13; Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction,
and there are MANY who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there a FEW who find it. (emphasis mine)

How many is many? How many is a few? I don't know but I have to think the majority are going through the wide gate.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

What day in the Genesis account was this place or these places created by God?
All things were good so I can't seem to locate it's creation.

 

[Curtis]

What day in the Genesis account was this place or these places created by God?
All things were good so I can't seem to locate it's creation.

I would venture to say if you can find out exactly when Lucifer and all his angels were cast into hell, you find that answer.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

I personally do not think you will find it any were from Genesis 1:2 onward.

 

[B-A-C]

Everything that is created isn't individually mentioned in Genesis...
For example we can't deny that Mars exists.. but Mars isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible.
When God created the heavens and the earth... that's everything... whether it's specifically mentioned or not.
The new Jerusalem isn't mentioned in Genesis... but it wasn't created by man.
It doesn't specifically say angels were created in Genesis.

In Matt 25:41; Jesus specifically mentions "the eternal fire" which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.
(It says other people will get thrown in there also). This eternal fire isn't really mentioned specifically in Genesis,
but if Jesus who created everything says it exists...

As far as everything being good... that also isn't really true.
There are several "it was good"s between Genesis 1:10; and Gen 1:31; however in Gen 2:18; God says one thing was NOT good.
(it's the first NOT good).

 

[Curtis]

Food for thought. It seems that not only is hell in a particular place it is also "movable", and it can "follow" a person where ever they go. If all the angels that sinned were cast into Hell, then when they come to tempt or what ever they bring Hell with them. I would say the same thing happens when a Christian goes somewhere they bring the Kingdom that they been translated into go with them. Light and darkness are for sure two different kingdoms.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Food for thought. It seems that not only is hell in a particular place it is also "movable", and it can "follow" a person where ever they go. If all the angels that sinned were cast into Hell, then when they come to tempt or what ever they bring Hell with them. I would say the same thing happens when a Christian goes somewhere they bring the Kingdom that they been translated into go with them. Light and darkness are for sure two different kingdoms.

Good point,if the kingdom of God is within you then time and space is only in the mind.

The location of hell in the body is the tongue.
James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

 

[B-A-C]

Another thought is that as Sheol/Hades is enlarging itself.... ( Isa 5:14; Habakkuk 2:5; ) the rider is simply staying ahead of it.
Still, I agree with the thought that this may be a metaphysical/spiritual place that can't be located with GPS or Google Maps.

A word conspicuously missing from this thread is "hell".
Hell is only mentioned 13 times in the Bible. All of them in the New testament. The first 11 times is by Jesus
in the gospels. Jesus describe hell as "fiery" ( Matt 5:22; Matt 18:9; Mark 9:43; )
Unlike Hades/Sheol which eventually are thrown into the lake of Fire... Hell is often considered to be the Lake of Fire.

Hell is a place where beings are "cast into" or "thrown into" ( Matt 5:29; Matt 18:9; Mark 9:45; Mark 9:47; Luke 12:5; 2 Pet 2:4; )
Hell is also called a place of sentence. ( Matt 23:33; )

Even if hell is a metaphysical place that only exists in a spiritual dimension... it still exists.
It is still a place of pain and agony.... if not for the physical (earthly) body, then at least for whatever body the spirit inhabits
after death.

 

[B-A-C]

I am reminded of a movie series called "The Matrix".

Now there is much in these movies that isn't really very edifying. Lots of shooting and death and violence.
In the last movie of the series we find out that life is just a computer program that controls things.

What does any of this have to do with a Bible study about hell?

In the movie, people are all slaves, but they don't know it. They are born into the world as slaves to machines.
They are kept asleep by the machines, and their dreams are controlled by the machines to make them think they are awake.
In other words, their whole life experience is just a dream in a virtual world that doesn't really exist.

Some of the people in the movie wake up from the dream, and fight against "agents" that try to put them back under the
control of the machines again. But these people find out there is a "real" world, that is in some ways like the virtual dream
world they escaped from, but in other ways different... their thoughts and dreams are no longer controlled by the machines...
they are free.

I believe this "real" world that we feel, see, touch and taste around us.. is much like the virtual/dream world in the matrix.
There is a spiritual world that co-exists with this physical world, but the spiritual world is the real world. This world
is just a place where we were born into sin, and most of us are controlled by "the god of this world", and many of his
agents are trying to keep us under that deception.

Some of us escape that world, and step into the spiritual world where God's will is done. God is in control of both worlds
but he still lets satan control those who choose to be controlled by him.

The point of all this is.... there is a world that will be more real to us than what we currently see.
A world where we are free, free from sin, free from pain, sorrow, hate, and death. Some people don't know this world exists
and they will never accept it. Even though it's all around us even now. We can't see it, but it's there.
Some day all of us will be in that world.... a world more real than this one. The rewards of salvation will be real there,
and the pain and punishment of rebellion will be just as real there.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Even if hell is a metaphysical place that only exists in a spiritual dimension... it still exists.
It is still a place of pain and agony.... if not for the physical (earthly) body, then at least for whatever body the spirit inhabits
after death.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The dirt goes back to where it came from and the spirit goes back to where it came from so the soul is the thing in question.
Soul in hebrew is Strong's 5315 nephesh= living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Soul in Greek 5590. psuché= the vital breath, breath of life,the human soul, the soul as the seat of affections and will, the self, a human person, an individual.

If we die to self and walk in the spirit then the soul is the old man or ego.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I believe this "real" world that we feel, see, touch and taste around us.. is much like the virtual/dream world in the matrix.
There is a spiritual world that co-exists with this physical world, but the spiritual world is the real world. This world
is just a place where we were born into sin, and most of us are controlled by "the god of this world", and many of his
agents are trying to keep us under that deception.

There is actually a science experiment called "the double slit experiment" that proves what you are saying is the case.
This world is an illusion just a little more stable than our dreams.

 

[Curtis]

I believe this "real" world that we feel, see, touch and taste around us.. is much like the virtual/dream world in the matrix.
There is a spiritual world that co-exists with this physical world, but the spiritual world is the real world. This world
is just a place where we were born into sin, and most of us are controlled by "the god of this world", and many of his
agents are trying to keep us under that deception.

As Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life...." The word, "truth" really means, "reality". Reality can only be found in a place where things "change not". This world is passing away and the lust there of, so it is not the real world. God's Kingdom never changes as we are told not to look at the things seen, and only at the things unseen, for the things that are seen are only temporary, but the things not seen are eternal. Being a unborn again person can not possible see the unseen things as they are a slave to sin, which keeps them in darkness....

 

[Dovegiven]

What day in the Genesis account was this place or these places created by God?
All things were good so I can't seem to locate it's creation.

When God created earth, it had the molten interior like it still has today. There's good purpose for it, for the sake of life on earth, never made for the purpose of punishing captives. In the New Earth it will still be there, doing its job. As each group of worshipers visit to worship God, they will be passed by a portal to view those held there.
Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus referred to that place.
Mark 9:43-44 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

That will serve to remind everyone not to even think about sin.

 

[amadeus2]

There seems to be a thought among some Christians today that believers get eternal life, but sinners
just die, they just cease to exist, or they just lie in the ground.

Yet the Bible doesn't teach this. It says all the dead will be raised. The good and the bad.
It also doesn't teach the wicked will just cease to exist.

"The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:4-5

"Let favour be showed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness:.. They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish." Isaiah 26:10-14

Matt 18:8; says there is an eternal fire... (why is the fire eternal, if the wicked cease to exist?)

"Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them." Jerem 5:14

"... for our God is a consuming fire" Heb 12:29

How close are able to approach God and still live? Now, approaching to Him more closely and eventually look upon His face, but we cannot do so unprepared. Moses approached and had to veil the brightness that his own face took on in order to protect the children of Israel. Do we have more than Moses? See the example here:

"Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:22

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

The fire of God will burn up those who are unprepared, but it will do no harm to those who are prepared.

"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." Dan 3:17-18

Matt 25:41; also speaks of the eternal fire... it was prepared for the devil and his angels.
(note: some angels belong to the devil)
Some will say.. ok the fire is eternal... but the punishment isn't.
Yet 5 verses later we see in Matt 25:46; ... These will go away into ETERNAL punishment (emphasis mine).
So the punishment is eternal.

Yes, the punishment is eternal. Once they are dead, they are eternally dead. They have no resurrection: "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" John 11:26

Those who believe in Jesus shall never die.

2 Thess 1:8-9; talks about those who do not obey the gospel...
Verse 9 says these will pay the penalty of ETERNAL destruction. Not just a momentary destruction.
Heb 6:2; says the judgment is eternal... it mentions this is one of the more mature teachings,
(we shouldn't stay in the elementary teachings only)

Once something is destroyed does it then exist again? We, believers, were effectively destroyed. We were dead, but for us there was a rebirth. Not so for those who never believed!

In Jude it talks about two group of beings.
The first group is people pretending to be Christians...
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation,
ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
(People who use the excuse that "grace covers everything" in order to continue in sin).
The second group here here is the angels who abandoned their proper abode and went after "strange flesh".
This is usually considered the be the angels in Genesis 6:2; who "married the daughters of men". (verse 7)
In Jude 7 we see that these are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7

"...for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Rom 12:19

The fire of God warms and comforts those who really Love Him. It destroys those who do not.

Hebrews 10:29; talks about a more severe punishment for those who have trampled under foot the Son of God
and the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified.

Are these other than those who have heard the message of Jesus and then returned to their own vomit?

"Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:44-45

There is of course the story of Lazarus and the Rich man... the rich man was in torment in these flames. ( Luke 16:24; )
The rich man isn't in the lake of fire yet, (no one is) but still he is in torment.

Is this a statement of history or is it a parable?

This could along with 2 Pet 2:9; which says God keeps the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment.[/quot

Eventually the 2nd coming of Jesus happens... ( I personally believe this is before the judgment)

But no one really knows when this final judgment is, do they? What if a person's final judgment is when he has rebelled for his "10th time" (prior to or at the moment of his physical death)?

"Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:" Numb 11:22-23