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Loyal
Why do you feel this way? Each of God's actual children (and yes some are deceived) are at a different place on the Journey and at a different level of understanding. You and I may not agree on every matter but perhaps the areas we differ on have to do with our level or how we have been taught. But most who simply read the Book and allow the Spirit to lead them and guide them into all truth eventually see the essential purpose and truth it contains. Some hold Genesis 1 as speaking of 6 24 hour days while others not. Some take "this IS my body" in a wooden literal sense and others not. But we both believe in the one and only God and in Jesus the Messiah whom He has sent and the eternal value of His redemptive work on the cross. So are threse other matter essential? Does any human this side of Glory fully know Him as of yet? I think not. But the two greatest of commandments are not just for Jewish people or those of the Old Covenant but for us all (especially those of the New). Hang in there and trust Him and hold to and defend your view until such time as you cannot deny another perspective and then change to line up with the truth. This is all we can do personally and in the mean time be as kind and compassionate to others as you are able. God sees and He knows them that are His (and not all who claim to be are).
ok
 
Loyal
Why do you feel this way? Each of God's actual children (and yes some are deceived) are at a different place on the Journey and at a different level of understanding. You and I may not agree on every matter but perhaps the areas we differ on have to do with our level or how we have been taught. But most who simply read the Book and allow the Spirit to lead them and guide them into all truth eventually see the essential purpose and truth it contains. Some hold Genesis 1 as speaking of 6 24 hour days while others not. Some take "this IS my body" in a wooden literal sense and others not. But we both believe in the one and only God and in Jesus the Messiah whom He has sent and the eternal value of His redemptive work on the cross. So are threse other matter essential? Does any human this side of Glory fully know Him as of yet? I think not. But the two greatest of commandments are not just for Jewish people or those of the Old Covenant but for us all (especially those of the New). Hang in there and trust Him and hold to and defend your view until such time as you cannot deny another perspective and then change to line up with the truth. This is all we can do personally and in the mean time be as kind and compassionate to others as you are able. God sees and He knows them that are His (and not all who claim to be are).
I am a calvinist , remember i do not think the same way about GOD as many do, I used too a long time ago before I received the Holy Ghost , thought the same way as you and many others, before 1977, i became, I am, A new creature in Christ there are two types of people only, you are or you ain't. That you are, a yes or you are a no.

Some are condemn to hell and some are not and God makes the choice and not man. No one can choose his own destiny Only A "GOD"makes that decision. An he determine that, before any kind of creation was created. Because he has a purpose and far as man is, Man is nothing but piece of dirt and when finish and the last stone has been hatch the mold and all of the ingredients will be cast into The fire.

Simple, mankind thinks too highly of Himself. That is what will terrorize him, not the devil will terrorize mankind "GOD"will. it only builds up the terror man will receive, his pride, and that is sad. why, because I once was one. but now I am a new CREATURE and not like the mortal that came out of my mothers womb but I have the mind of Christ and not that of a mortal human being that mind died,

I am not a religious man. I died, then i was "BORN of GOD' not born again but Born of GOD I had a HEAVENLY not of mind not of thought a real HEAVENLY BIRTH. Now Trap in a Humans body that will be "dissolve".

For GOD himself has to MAKE us me a new one to house this "CREATURE" and ALL CREATION SUFFERER AND AWAITS OUR UNVEILING! "THE MANIFESTATION OF THE GLORY OF GOD" and that is what we will be Will WIl BE "THE GLORY OF GOD" SHINING BRIGHTEN THAN THE SUN in it's STRENGTH"

MORE BRIGHTER and more GLORIOUS than HEAVEN could every be!


THIS WORLD cannot take that from me even the thoughts, because if it could, it would The church would take it, if it could, Christians would take it, if they could. Oh yes every day, they try to take it if they could,

Jesus even despise this place and most of the people who occupies it. He could not wait to leave this place, the same spirit that was in HIM should be in us.

Tell me why we don' t act like it. I will tell you why, "We do not believe HIS report, but we have establish our righteousness and not the righteous of GOD:pensive:


New American Standard Bible
‘Call to Me and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

We are Peter's and we all have rejected GOD and blind and don't see it. We have choose The BEAST who is the creature called "man' and we have bow down to him and "worshipping"him, even in The "Congregation of GOD" and we don't know it.

The ones GOD destroyed almost all of the but These but save 8 and then came Jesus! Doing more than forgiving He created a "New CREATURE". God did In CHRIST> But no Body Believes his report, But Grace But GRACE.:pensive:

The World has never believed our report. Never, they have never believe in Christ, never, Many can or will not believe that it is grace. No body can believe that JESUS is Real and the SON of the LIVING GOD!


New American Standard Bible
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”:worried: { YOU BLOCKING THE SUN LIGHT}

And JESUS does not LIE! But we do not believe him! We always will say; he means this and he meant that! Like God needs Another god to explain it for him.


Ploughboy
 
Active
I am a calvinist , remember i do not think the same way about GOD as many do, I used too a long time ago before I received the Holy Ghost , thought the same way as you and many others, before 1977, i became, I am, A new creature in Christ there are two types of people only, you are or you ain't. That you are, a yes or you are a no.

Some are condemn to hell and some are not and God makes the choice and not man. No one can choose his own destiny Only A "GOD"makes that decision. An he determine that, before any kind of creation was created. Because he has a purpose and far as man is, Man is nothing but piece of dirt and when finish and the last stone has been hatch the mold and all of the ingredients will be cast into The fire.

Simple, mankind thinks too highly of Himself. That is what will terrorize him, not the devil will terrorize mankind "GOD"will. it only builds up the terror man will receive, his pride, and that is sad. why, because I once was one. but now I am a new CREATURE and not like the mortal that came out of my mothers womb but I have the mind of Christ and not that of a mortal human being that mind died,

I am not a religious man. I died, then i was "BORN of GOD' not born again but Born of GOD I had a HEAVENLY not of mind not of thought a real HEAVENLY BIRTH. Now Trap in a Humans body that will be "dissolve".

For GOD himself has to MAKE us me a new one to house this "CREATURE" and ALL CREATION SUFFERER AND AWAITS OUR UNVEILING! "THE MANIFESTATION OF THE GLORY OF GOD" and that is what we will be Will WIl BE "THE GLORY OF GOD" SHINING BRIGHTEN THAN THE SUN in it's STRENGTH"

MORE BRIGHTER and more GLORIOUS than HEAVEN could every be!


THIS WORLD cannot take that from me even the thoughts, because if it could, it would The church would take it, if it could, Christians would take it, if they could. Oh yes every day, they try to take it if they could,

Jesus even despise this place and most of the people who occupies it. He could not wait to leave this place, the same spirit that was in HIM should be in us.

Tell me why we don' t act like it. I will tell you why, "We do not believe HIS report, but we have establish our righteousness and not the righteous of GOD:pensive:


New American Standard Bible
‘Call to Me and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

We are Peter's and we all have rejected GOD and blind and don't see it. We have choose The BEAST who is the creature called "man' and we have bow down to him and "worshipping"him, even in The "Congregation of GOD" and we don't know it.

The ones GOD destroyed almost all of the but These but save 8 and then came Jesus! Doing more than forgiving He created a "New CREATURE". God did In CHRIST> But no Body Believes his report, But Grace But GRACE.:pensive:

The World has never believed our report. Never, they have never believe in Christ, never, Many can or will not believe that it is grace. No body can believe that JESUS is Real and the SON of the LIVING GOD!


New American Standard Bible
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”:worried: { YOU BLOCKING THE SUN LIGHT}

And JESUS does not LIE! But we do not believe him! We always will say; he means this and he meant that! Like God needs Another god to explain it for him.


Ploughboy

Yeah! I use to be a Calvinist. In fact, it was how I was discipled for about the first 10 years. I k now all the arguments for and against. It led me to really listen to the Spirit as I prayerfully read the word and I found all that time I had been incorrect. Right off the bat I realized that if Total Depravity meant absolute incapability then it was wrong (incorrect). God shows us in the word that even an unrighteous men can do righteous things and vice versa. He gives non-Spirit filled Israelites (as well as us) in the Old Covenant, "commands" that man is absolutely capable of following and doing. It is just that most will not because they want to be lord of their own life (Genesis 3:5) as a result of the fall. So for that reason I discovered over 70 passages that negate the absolutely incapable model. So how did John Calvin miss this?

So what I learned (thanks be to the Holy Spirit) was that Calvin, having read Augustines's Against Pelagius, had failed to read his treatise that immediately followed called On Grace and Free Will where he explains that there were two groups who misunderstood his point. The first who saw man's choices and actions as determining their salvation and the second being those who mistakenly thought that it is so much God's arbitrary choice by Grace that they failed to understand man had/has a responsibility in becoming saved. It is really there for us to see once our eyes have been opened to it. So let me give you an excerpt example from On Grace and Free will as it rounds out the actual Doctrine taught by the Appostles and those they appointed as first bishops, to the earliest Church fathers.


Augustine, On Grace and Free Will





Chapter 1

With reference to those persons who so preach and defend man's free will, as boldly to deny, and endeavor to do away with, the grace of God which calls us to Him (like Pelagius), and delivers us from our evil deserts, and by which we obtain the good deserts which lead to everlasting life: we have already said a good deal in discussion, and committed it to writing, so far as the Lord has vouchsafed to enable us.

But since there are SOME
persons who so defend God's grace as to deny man's free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended (like Calvinists), I have determined to write somewhat on this point…



Chapter 2

Now He has revealed to us, through His
Holy Scriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine (meaning through scripture). There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. For they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance, as the Lord says concerning the Jews in the gospel: If I had not come and spoken unto them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin

Chapter 3

There are, however,
persons who attempt to find excuse for themselves even from God (saying all they do or did is God’s will). The Apostle James says to such: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man. But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. James 1:13-15 Solomon, too, in his book of Proverbs, has this answer for such as wish to find an excuse for themselves from God Himself: The folly of a man spoils his ways; but he blames God in his heart (we see this in militant Islam where even if they kill and torture or rape they say it was the will of Allah). Proverbs 19:3 And in the book of Ecclesiasticus we read: Say not, It is through the Lord that I fell away; for you ought not to do the things that He hates: nor say, He has caused me to err; for He has no need of the sinful man… The Lord hates all abomination, and they that fear God love it not. He Himself made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of His counsel. If you be willing, you shall keep His commandments, and perform true fidelity. He has set fire and water before you: stretch forth your hand unto whether you will….

Chapter 4

What is the import of the fact that in so many passages God requires all His commandments to be kept and fulfilled? How does He make this requisition, if there is no
free will? What means the happy man, of whom the Psalmist says that his will has been the law of the Lord? Does he not clearly enough show that a man by his own will takes his stand in the law of God?

Then again, there are so many commandments which in some way are expressly adapted to the
human will; for instance, there is, Be not overcome of evil, Romans 12:1 and others of similar import, such as, Be not like a horse or a mule, which have no understanding; and, Reject not the counsels of your mother; Proverbs 1:8 and, Be not wise in your own conceit; Proverbs 3:7 and, Despise not the chastening of the Lord; Proverbs 3:11 and, Forget not my law; Proverbs 3:1 and, Forbear not to do good to the poor; Proverbs 3:27 and, Devise not evil against your friend; Proverbs 3:29 and, Give no heed to a worthless woman; Proverbs 5:2 and, He is not inclined to understand how to do good; and, They refused to attend to my counsel; Proverbs 1:30 with numberless other passages of the inspired Scriptures of the Old Testament. And what do they all show us but the free choice of the human will? So, again, in the evangelical and apostolic books of the New Testament what other lesson is taught us? As when it is said, Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth; Matthew 6:19 and, Fear not them which kill the body; Matthew 10:28 and, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself; Matthew 16:24 and again, Peace on earth to men of good will. Luke 2:14 So also that the Apostle Paul says: Let him do what he wills; he sins not if he marry. Nevertheless, he that stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, does well. 1 Corinthians 7:36-37 And so again, If I do this willingly, I have a reward; 1 Corinthians 9:17 while in another passage he says, Be sober and righteous, and sin not; 1 Corinthians 15:34 and again, As you have a readiness to will, so also let there be a prompt performance; 2 Corinthians 8:11 then he remarks to Timothy about the younger widows, When they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they choose to marry. So in another passage, All that will to live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution; 2 Timothy 3:12 while to Timothy himself he says, Neglect not the gift that is in you. 1 Timothy 4:14 Then to Philemon he addresses this explanation: That your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but of your own will. Servants also he advises to obey their masters with a good will. Ephesians 6:7 In strict accordance with this, James says: Do not err, my beloved brethren . . . and have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ with respect to persons; and, Do not speak evil one of another. James 4:11 So also John in his Epistle writes, Do not love the world, 1 John 2:15and other things of the same import. Now wherever it is said, Do not do this, and Do not do that, and wherever there is any requirement in the divine admonitions for the work of the will to do anything, or to refrain from doing anything, there is at once a sufficient proof of free will.

No man, therefore, when he
sins, can in his heart blame God for it, but every man must impute the fault to himself. Nor does it detract at all from a man's own will when he performs any act in accordance with God. Indeed, a work is then to be pronounced a good one when a person does it willingly; then, too, may the reward of a good work be hoped for from Him concerning whom it is written, He shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings all,

can we please get back to the OP?


Seven Scientific Proofs of God​



Bless you ....><>
 
Active
Greetings all,

can we please get back to the OP?


Seven Scientific Proofs of God​



Bless you ....><>

Yes! How does YEC and OEC stack up in other people's understanding? Clearly neither group accepts the Evolutionisr's ORIGINS spin nor do we agree that fish became Anphibs which became reprilian which became birds or mammals, etc., so how can we demonstrate they are incorrect? Any ideas or issues?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

one doesn't have to look very far to see the beauty of God's creation....

and this beauty is not so much in how we perceive colours and shapes and other indeed very beautiful things but in the complexity that demands a sensible and unbiased look/investigation, where should even the slightest function of person, animal, plant, water, air, soil and/or rock be removed, the whole would never be possible....

which begs the question of how else besides a Creator could anything exist.

Even in bacteria and virus, there must be an ordered and specific relationship in order for life.

Bacteria are fascinating 'things'... and how important to everything.... as are so many other dependencies that are vitalfor life aswe call it [from a biological position]

Then we have the infallible Word that we can either accept, even if we can not fathom everything as yet, or deny and find ourselves in a contradiction every way we consider anything, if we are honest enough to address the whole.

we must address faith if we are to be completely truthful.

For me, the heavens declare the glory of God...

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.
The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth His handywork.

Psalm 19:1

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20

He hath made the earth by His power, He hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15


Bless you ....><>
 
Active
Greetings,

one doesn't have to look very far to see the beauty of God's creation....

and this beauty is not so much in how we perceive colours and shapes and other indeed very beautiful things but in the complexity that demands a sensible and unbiased look/investigation, where should even the slightest function of person, animal, plant, water, air, soil and/or rock be removed, the whole would never be possible....

which begs the question of how else besides a Creator could anything exist.

Even in bacteria and virus, there must be an ordered and specific relationship in order for life.

Bacteria are fascinating 'things'... and how important to everything.... as are so many other dependencies that are vitalfor life aswe call it [from a biological position]

Then we have the infallible Word that we can either accept, even if we can not fathom everything as yet, or deny and find ourselves in a contradiction every way we consider anything, if we are honest enough to address the whole.

we must address faith if we are to be completely truthful.

For me, the heavens declare the glory of God...

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.
The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth His handywork.

Psalm 19:1

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20

He hath made the earth by His power, He hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15


Bless you ....><>

Amen
 
Member
That's why I trust the professionals in their niche areas who put it all in layman's terms for us.
Imagine if Jesus tried to explain God or His thoughts to us. Queu that melting scene from "Raiders From the Lost Ark".
Per your last, can you clarify?
Are you a Combat Veteran?
 
Active
God's blessings be with you both and all others who have put their lives on the line so we could be free. Their is no greater love than the willingness to lay down one's life for a friend. Thank you!
 
Active
Thank you for being one of about 10% that will put their feet where their mouths run. When I quit, after eight years, I wore 5 combat hash marks. Combat is weird and not at all like the movies. God bless, brother.
I was a Medic. Didn't and don't care about medals but the Combat Medical Badge was on I'm glad I earned.
I haven't put on that stuffy, badly made Class A in so long.
Yes, at best some movies get combat and war right but those were made a long time ago. Blessings to you as well.
 
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