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Self Righteousness ??

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Loyal
Doing the law because you think you have to do the law is law based religion.

Being obedient to God because you Love God is what grace produces in a believer.

Its all boils down to WHY you are obedient to God,

You can keep the Law all you want but if your heart is not in the right place it does not good.

How good is good enough if you think you are good enough?? that is called self righteousness when we think we are good enough with out Jesus this is what the Pharisees did.
 
Loyal
For me.. all the verses saying we aren't under the law anymore... are simply talking about
ceremonial laws. Confessing to priests, circimcision and animal sacrifice.

There are of course of a number of verses in the new testament that tell us to "keep the commandments". (it's not an option).

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, [COLOR=red]"Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."[/COLOR]
John 14:15; [COLOR=red]"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.[/COLOR]
John 15:10; [COLOR=red]"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.[/COLOR]
1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, [COLOR=red]"You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.[/COLOR]
1 Tim; 6:13-14; I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Matt 5:19; [COLOR=red]"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/COLOR]
John 14:21; [COLOR=red]"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him."[/COLOR]
1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments

Also something to keep in mind... there is no verses in the Bible that says ...."you will be judged to see if your heart is in the right place".
But there a quite a few that say say we we will be judged by what we actually do.

Matt 16:27; [COLOR=red] "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.[/COLOR]
John 5:28-29; [COLOR=red]"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. [/COLOR]
Rom 2:5-6; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Tit 1:16; They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

None of those verses mention "having a good heart". Are we even capable of knowing if we have a "good heart"?
Jer 17:9; The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @Dave M

Being obedient to God because you Love God is what grace produces in a believer.

Its all boils down to WHY you are obedient to God,
I went through a period of being backslidden and dabbling into all manner of worldly stuff.

All through that time ....there was a little voice speaking to my heart saying come home. No matter what state my mind was in I would encounter Bible Verses, hymns, scriptural car stickers.....wooing me back to the fold

I believe that His grace, mercy and love working in our hearts continually guides us to His righteous paths and no matter how far we have strayed His love constrains us.

Once saved it is His righteousness within us.....and that is perfect.

[COLOR=#00b300]Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6[/COLOR]
 
Active
The finality of the cross did away with the law. Not that it is not still perfect but man is not. Jesus provided a better way, that does not depend on man but the grace of God or , as he puts it, a gift....and it is a gift it is free!
 
Loyal
Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6
I do notice that the Bible differentiates between "His" works.. and "our" works.

Rev 3:2; 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your works completed in the sight of My God.

Also.. even though "His" works are already completed... and have been completed... "ours" are not.

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

So just because Jesus finished "His works".. is no guarantee we will make it to the place of rest.
 
Loyal
BAC said
"Also something to keep in mind... there is no verses in the Bible that says ...."you will be judged to see if your heart is in the right place".
But there a quite a few that say say we we will be judged by what we actually do."

Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

My understanding is believers are to be judged for there works in order to receive rewards Jesus speaks very much on storing treasures up in heaven, saved people sins are forgiven for if we are to be judged by our sins we would ALL go to hell for we ALL have sinned and deserve hell. Not all will be equal in heaven this is where our works down here on earth come into play, we will be rewarded according to our works, that's what I believe it means when it says "WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS"

Non Believers will be judged and for there sins and sent to hell, I have even seen mention of different levels of torment in hell.

A changed heart is what a believer receives when he or she is born again with out a changed heart you can not be born again IMO
when I you become born again I have Jesus Guarantee that I am saved !! Eternal sounds like a guarantee to me :smile:

BAC I always appreciate you insight on scripture whether I agree with them or not God bless


John 10:28
[COLOR=#ff0000]I give them eternal life[/COLOR], and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and [COLOR=#ff0000]no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.[/COLOR]
 
Loyal
John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and [COLOR=#ff0000]no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.[/COLOR]
No one is able to snatch my wife out of my hand, but I can't stop her if she wants to walk away on her own. Jesus won't stop you either.
He didn't stop Lucifer and the fallen angels. He didn't stop the Jews who chose Baal and the golden calf. He didn't stop the 70 that quit following Him.
 
Active
No one is able to snatch my wife out of my hand, but I can't stop her if she wants to walk away on her own. Jesus won't stop you either. He didn't stop Lucifer and the fallen angels. He didn't stop the Jews who chose Baal and the golden calf. He didn't stop the 70 that quit following Him.
God does not enter contracts without properly vetting the other party. Jews were chosen because of Abraham, who was vetted. They at large, like most of mankind, hated Him.

God judges the heart and mind at a level we can't Jer 17:9-11. He cast the fallen angels out because He knew they would never desire true repentance 1 John 3:8. Likewise, He does not graft anyone in, who would want to walk away.
 
Loyal
BAC said

"For me.. all the verses saying we aren't under the law anymore... are simply talking about
ceremonial laws. Confessing to priests, circimcision and animal sacrifice.

There are of course of a number of verses in the new testament that tell us to "keep the commandments". (it's not an option)"

Yes certainly are as I have always said the [COLOR=#0080ff]WHY[/COLOR] is the important part and I believe Jesus tells us [COLOR=#0080ff]why[/COLOR] when he said.


John 14-15
“[COLOR=#ff0000]If you love me, you will keep my commandments.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]So I would have say if you keep his commandments and dont love Jesus you can do all the works in the world and not be saved. And when you love Jesus it will produce works in you
[/COLOR]
 
Active
No one is able to snatch my wife out of my hand, but I can't stop her if she wants to walk away on her own. Jesus won't stop you either.
He didn't stop Lucifer and the fallen angels. He didn't stop the Jews who chose Baal and the golden calf. He didn't stop the 70 that quit following Him.
No offense but these are a poor analogy. You can not compare a Carnal Falling Away to a Spiritual Falling Away. On top of that, a true (Spiritual)Christian with Christ in them, there is no where to fall to where he is not right there!?
 
Active
Doing the law because you think you have to do the law is law based religion.
Being obedient to God because you Love God is what grace produces in a believer.
I like this very much and support what you are saying. This , to me, is the primary distinction that many who support personal works and a legal based religion fail to see! 1 John 4:19 We love because he first loved us
 
Active
I like this very much and support what you are saying. This , to me, is the primary distinction that many who support personal works and a legal based religion fail to see! 1 John 4:19 We love because he first loved us
As a follow-up: Law minded individuals dislike bringing this up but, it fits "hand in hand"!: Ephesians 2: 8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
 
Active
Also something to keep in mind... there is no verses in the Bible that says ...."you will be judged to see if your heart is in the right place".
But there a quite a few that say say we we will be judged by what we actually do.
I think these are one in the same.
  • Surely you will be judged by whether or not you are a true believer, or a non-believer .
  • If you area true believer, Jesus is in you...that would be having your heart in the right place, by which God would judge!!
  • This is also being judge by what you actually have done....being a believer or not!
 

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