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Seeking, but not sure what!

Discussion in 'Introduction' started by seekingsomething, Sep 16, 2015.

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  1. @seekingsomething

    It is easy to make claims of something, but harder to have it hold water in light of the evidence provided. Just because you distrust the evidence doesn't make it any less factual. I provided some evidence on the resurrection and how his disciples might have stolen the body. Which you posed. Satisfactory answer to negate your premise? If not, then within the evidence available how did they steal the body?

    You have admitted as such that Jesus did die or at least go along with the historical record that He did. Now scripture states that many saw Jesus after the resurrection. The documents were written within the lifetime of those who would give witness to having talked, eaten, heard, touched Him. Large enough number of people that not all of them would be called in a court of law in order to make the point that his presence was known to more then the Apostles. Also, keep in mind that the documents we're talking about were not just written to you, me or some future time period. They were written to contemporaries, people who could verify/confirm what was being written as factual. Keep in mind that these are individuals who gave up their lives for this for this very message. Which is also historically factual.

    [​IMG]

    Now if you were to serve on a jury and provided witness after witness that something happened. Even though you didn't see it yourself. From people who have nothing to gain, but persecution, pain, and death. How would you evaluate it?

    You are now on that jury. What questions besides "I don't believe you" would you pose to them?

    My own questions have been answered and I don't doubt that Jesus Christ "lived, died, and rose again" and we are trying to help you with your own questions. Just don't prejudge on a preconceived belief on what is possible or not possible. You need to ask yourself. What if it is possible? What if it did happen? and most importantly. What does it mean to me? or Like one church I attend on line like to say. "So what?" :)
    C4E
    <><
     
  2. I said it is a probability that Jesus died an unpleasant death, however I don't agree the gospels are historical in the true sense of that word!
     
  3. Sorry, you make no sense?
     
  4. No matter how much certified proof of Jesus' resurrection, if a person today can't believe it by faith, it will mean nothing to them, remaining blinded by Satan by permission of God.

    Many Jews that were contemporary to the apostles, particularly with Paul, had ample opportunity to add hills of volumes of writing denouncing the then current news about Jesus, far more than the one rumor they created to excuse the Roman guards for sleeping on watch. They would have more than ample reason and godly mission to exterminate the apostles immediately, unhindered by the Lord who won't support lairs, Any hoax would be impossible to stand, God not allowing them to pervert truth so blatantly. But God protected them and the gospel against unbelievable persecutions.

    Jesus was claimed to have walked among people 40 days after witnesses of the opposition saw him die on the cross. Many more Jews believed on him, the apostles unstoppable. If Jesus was not there, the scoffers would have been able to disprove the claims of resurrection with reliable witnesses, especially the common Jew knowing the consequences of giving lying testimony.
     
  5. :) In what way are they not historical?
     
  6. You cant prove that most people down throughout history actually lived, unless you accept what is written as history.. History is often written by the conquerors and by those who wish to bend others to their will. You either accept history or you do not. That is faith. You have faith, just not in God. Its that simple truth that you cannot deal with. Take your man inspired logic to the grave and see how that helps you.
     
  7. I am of the opinion that as there is not the slightest shred of verifiable evidence substantiating the less than credible things claimed for Jesus, that either they were highly exaggerated or totally untrue.
     
  8. @seekingsomething

    Sigh....so what is the criteria by which you determine the authenticity of historical data?

    As they say of opinions. Everyone has them. Yet to have a basis by which one uses to determine whether something is credible, exaggerated, or totally untrue historically. Requires a bit more then "opinions". If it is not consist with the historical data provided. You are then correct. Opinion it is. Otherwise, if truth is what you are seeking then it requires a bit more effort.

    The question you will need to ask yourself. Are you willing to be open about what you yourself have said you have no experience in or not?

    Only with the Love of Christ, seeker.
    C4E
    <><

    Off to work!!!
     
  9. I am not willing to open myself up to believe in unverifiable less than credible beliefs. It strikes me the idea of getting 'saved' is superstitious nonsense. If it was promoted by any other faith I suspect some Christians would be down on it like a ton of bricks!
     
  10. Th
     
  11. That's not entirely true. We are taught as children by the finest minds in biology and evolutionists that random chemicals formed random compounds which in turn formed random life forms. Along the way, the life forms randomly figured out how to reproduce their own likeness in most cases, and form something entirely different in others. We are taught to believe that. Yet, none of it is provable nor verifiable. The claim is made because they can't explain it any other way without using a creator of some kind.

    Personally, I've never seen Science in contradiction with the Biblical God unless he is removed from the equation and replaced by an unknown variable. Then, it seems Science also becomes an unknown variable as it has to change its thinking as it goes along. While I appreciate that a learning curve exists and beliefs are corrected as necessary, our understanding of history is similarly affected until we know for certain based on sound evidence which cannot be refuted.
     
  12. It's interesting, even non-Christians have this notion of something called "sin".
    They might not believe in Jesus or God, but they believe in a morality of sorts.
    They believe it's wrong to kill someone, and they believe it's wrong to steal from someone.
    Some would even agree that it's wrong to have sexual relations with someone else spouse.
    There are some who even say lying is wrong (other's see nothing wrong with lying, unless you're lying to them).

    They also believe in life.... whether it was created, or whether it happened randomly by chance.
    ..and they believe in death, some even believe in an "after-life". Almost all world religions agree on the above
    (even atheism is a religion).
    But Christianity recognizes there is a price for sin, it not only hurts those we are sinning against (killing, stealing from, etc..)
    but it hurts us. Maybe not when we are doing it, but it will at some point. Christians aren't perfect, but they are forgiven.
    It's the only religion I know of, where the creator gave man free choice, man chose wrongly, and yet the creator is willing
    to pay the price for our mistakes.

    People have gone days without water. Weeks without food. Months without shelter. Some astronauts have gone
    days without a toilet. Some people have gone years without sexual relations. Some people have gone decades
    without using drugs or alcohol.... yet despite our ability to do without certain things, none of us can go very long
    without sinning. Why is that? Maybe it proves there is a God, and that what He says about sin is true.

    Some say life randomly happened, they say they know all of the ingredients necessary to create it, but yet they are
    unable to do something on purpose that they believe happened by chance.
     
  13. The world says, "when I see it, then I will believe it". Christianity is completely opposite to this kind of thinking. "You must believe first, before you can see it"
    It is not very smart for anyone to believe in something without first having proof, or evidence to its existence. Faith gives us the proof by allowing us to see and hear what our physical senses could not possibly show us.

    Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
     
  14. @seekingsomething

    You've used a word "saved" which might very well have a different meaning to us then it does to you.

    Can you define what you believe we mean when we use this term?

    I do have a followup question to that first one.

    What part of that concept (saved) do you find "superstitious nonsense".
     
  15. Then you are not seeking anything to but only criticize.I hope you find your way to eternal life!
     
    Christ4Ever likes this.
  16. I had those exact same questions when I was very young. How could a man die for me, and in what way does that save me? Now I know the answer to that question because the Lord heard that prayer of mine many many years ago. I would say the Lord is drawing you to answer these same questions you have. Why else would you be here? You might think just to check out the water, and see what happening. No one would come a forum like this unless they were really seeking the truth, and bring drawn by the Holy Spirit.

    There was a man who was not a believer of Jesus Christ, until he had an encounter with him. In fact he would find all the Christians he could and had them killed for their faith. Later he became the Apostle Paul, and he wrote most of the New Testament. You are in good company here as we were all in the same boat until the Holy Spirit drew us to to Jesus Christ for salvation. So you can not tell us anything we have not already heard or experienced in our lives similar to yours.

    How does one become a child of God?

    Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
     
  17. Eternal death would be better than the presentation of eternal life on this forum!
     
  18. I have no wish to be a child of any god. If any god wants a relationship with me it has to be that of equals!
     
  19. @seekingsomething

    Those here have communicated an honest desire that would have you know a joy they know and feel that goes beyond carnality that is readily available to you in this world. What peace are you missing that currently eludes you?
     
  20. But it seems people on this forum are living in a fantasy world of make believe. Have they ever read the Bible from cover to cover? If they are Biblical literalists how on earth do they excuse the nasty things god is supposed to have done, or do they read it wearing rose coloured spectacles?
     

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