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Seeds

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by B-A-C, May 11, 2018.

  1. The thing I have noticed about seeds is...

    they take time to grow.

    In fact, a seed rarely remains "a seed". Generally they eventually turn into a tree of a fruit, or something else.

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    I've noticed it's same with us.

    I don't see any verses in the Bible that say we have to be fully perfect in "one second".

    I'm not denying this can happen. But I will say it rarely does happen.

    There are dozens of verses about trees growing and "eventually" bearing fruit, Christians maturing from infants, to children, to young men, to fathers. There are multiple verses about Christians who sin.
    If "your brother" sins against you. If anyone does sin.. we have a advocate... (unbelievers don't have that advocate). If we confess our sins... etc....

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    Grace doesn't end when you become a Christian... that's when it begins.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  2. I notice in the parable of the sower. ( Luke 8:4-15; ) The seeds ended up in various different situations.

    The first seeds... well they never took root at all... these people were never saved at all.

    The second kind of seeds.... they fell on shallow soil... they barely sprouted up out of the ground at all before they got stomped out.

    The third kind of seed actually grew for a while... he even started to bear fruit. But the fruit never grew to maturity.

    Finally you have the fourth kind of seed that bears many crops per year.

    If your the fourth kind of seed that's great!! But you didn't get there without being the second kind of seed and third kind of seed first.

    Maybe you're just in the second stage right right... maybe you're just barely above the dirt.

    Maybe your in the third stage now... you're starting to bare fruit, but it isn't mature yet.

    As long as your still growing... you aren't dead yet. :)
     
  3. In the parable of the fig tree. ( Luke 13:6-9; )

    We have a tree. It isn't just any tree in any garden. It is a tree in a certain man's vineyard.

    It says he came looking for fruit on it. Obviously he was expecting fruit from it. Why else would he have went out to go look?
    But there isn't any fruit on this particular fig tree. I notice here... it doesn't say this is the first time he has looked at this tree.
    In fact it says he has been checking this tree out for "the last three years".

    It seems the vineyard owner was allowing the tree some time to grow and bare fruit. He didn't throw the seed in the ground
    and expect figs 30 seconds later.

    Maybe the tree didn't have enough help? So the vineyard-keeper says he will water it, fertilize it and "try to help it along".
    He is giving it more more year. (Four years total here). I don't put too much stock in the "four year" plan. Maybe some trees
    are faster, maybe some trees take longer. The point is... they all take a little time.

    Keep in mind... it the tree doesn't bare fruit by the fifth year. Bad things happen to the tree.

    Has God checked your fruit lately? How are you doing? Maybe you just need a little more time. Maybe you need... ummm... "fertilizer". :)
     
  4. In Matt 13 Jesus mentions a mustard seed. (v 31-32 )

    This seed starts off small But eventually grows into a tree so large that the birds of the air will come and make nests in it.

    This particular verse isn't really us growing a as individual, but rather the kingdom of God starting off small and growing.

    But still... the principle applies. The seed has to grow into something.
     
  5. Hi, B-A-C.
    A seed can only bring forth after its own kind.
    God's seed cannot bear evil fruit.
    Neither can grape vines bear figs.
     
  6. It doesn't do either the minute it was planted.
     
  7. The Bible talks about "infants in Christ" Obviously if they were unbelievers... they wouldn't be "in Christ".

    1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
    1 Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
    1 Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

    Some of the signs of an infant Christian is "jealousy and strife". But even though they are doing these things, Paul doesn't say they aren't saved.

    Paul goes on to say...

    1 Cor 3:9; For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

    It's interesting Paul calls these "infants in Christ" fellow workers in God's field.

    There are some people who continually troll the threads looking for a fight. I suppose we all do it sometimes. I can admit I have.
    But there are some people.... who it is obvious to everyone but themselves. In fact they even deny they are sinning.

    Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
    Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

    We've all been there. Some us just don't admit they are still there.

    .. to be continued ...
     
  8. Paul talks about children, young men, and fathers.

    1 Jn 2:12; I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
    1 Jn 2:13; I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
    1 Jn 2:14; I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

    The children here... their sins have been forgiven. They know the Father.... but it doesn't say they've overcome yet.

    The young men have overcome, it seems more than once. The father's have persevered "from the beginning".

    .. to be continued ...
     
  9. But an apple seed will never bear oranges.
    God's seed will never bear devilishness.
     
  10. There are no "fleshly" Christians.
    Unbelievers, sinners, are not in Christ...despite what you infer.

    That isn't an infant Christian you describe, but a man of the flesh

    You are mistaken.
    The fellow workers Paul refers to are Apollos, and earlier Cephas.

    But to you, sinning is no big thing!
    Just a sign we are babes in Christ.
    Don't use sin as an indication of failure in one paragraph and a sign of normalcy in the next.

    You are misusing scripture in an effort to silence the Spirit of God.
    How many dissensions and disputes was Jesus involved in?
    Christians are not involved in the works of the flesh
    It is those who fight against reproof who are the disputers.
     
  11. #11 B-A-C, May 13, 2018
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
    Those aren't my words... Paul is the one saying they are "in Christ" ... ( 1 Cor 3:1; ) .. despite what you infer.

    1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    1 Cor 3:2; I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    1 Cor 3:3; For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men

    Apparently Paul think they can be carnal in Christ at the same time. I'll take his word for it over yours if you don't mind.
    Let us see what James says...

    Jas 5:14; Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
    Jas 5:15; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
    Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

    Now why would an unbeliever go to the elders of the church to get well?
    Why would unbeliever "confess their sins to one another"? Does this somehow make them believers?

    .. to be continued...
     
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  12. Paul isn't talking to a single man, either Spiritual or of the flesh.
    He is addressing the whole "church".
    Not everyone of them was "in Christ".
    Some things were meant for some and not others.

    What unbelievers?

    If their confession is the last one they ever do, it will manifest they are not unbelievers any longer.
    Believers believe...that God can save them from temptation. (1 Cor 10:13)
    Jesus came and conquered sin while in the flesh.
    As we can now be "in Christ", and He in us, we also have power to conquer sin.
    Thanks be to God!
     
  13. 1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
    1 Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
    1 Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

    As we can see here. The "infants in Christ" are the one taking "milk" not meat.
    A few verses later Paul says...

    1 Cor 3:16; Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

    Obviously the had the Holy Spirit also.
    The doctrine that says you can never sin is a false doctrine.

    Jas 5:13; Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises.
    Jas 5:14; Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
    Jas 5:15; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
    Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

    Condfess your sins... "one to another". This doesn't save you. These people are already saved, but "if he has committed sisn".. IF..
    they will be forgiven. Therefore... confess your sins.. one to another.
    These aren't unsaved people.

    The doctrine that says Christians have to be 100% perfect is a false doctrine.
    So that is what Paul and James say... what about Jesus?

    Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
    Matt 18:16; "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
    Matt 18:17; "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    Who is "your brother" here? An unbeiever? No a "brother" is someone in the church. It says that eventually.. "if he refuses to listen even to the church"..... then (and ONLY then) ..let him be as an unsaved sinner to you. If he wasn't saved, he would already be as a "tax collector or Gentile".

    The idea that a new Christian never sin is a false doctrine.

    .... to be continued ...
     
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  14. 1 Jn 2:1; My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

    Who are "the little children" here. Actual children? Are not fully mature Christians?
    John goes on to tell these "children" in the church. That they shouldn't sin... bit IF they do. They have an advocate.
    Unbeliever's don't have an advocate to the Father.

    The more accurate translations say...

    1 Jn 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

    If you sin once or twice... that doesn't mean you "practice" it.

    1 Jn 3:8; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

    We shouldn't make sinning a practice or habit. But if we do sin. We have an advocate.
     
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  15. Were that true, none would be saved.
    Our Advocate is our initial help into repentance from sin and forgiveness.
    Your "IF they do" is actually..."There is an advocate to those still disobedient to God who want to change".
    It is the offer of Christ to the world.

    What you are saying with this false interpretation is that apple trees can bear oranges...but not frequently.
    Seed can only bring forth of itself.
    God's seed cannot bear evil fruit.
     
  16. I see no where in any of these passage where the audience changes in mid stream.
    The same people with strife and jealousy are the same babes in Christ who are a temple of the Holy Spirit.

    There is no change in who Paul is speaking to anywhere here.
     
  17. ... since this thread has already been hi-jacked anyway... :)

    Let us look at 1 Cor 3:1-23 Who is this letter written to? Who is the "you" in the passage below?

    And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

    These infants in Christ... are still fleshly (carnal). This is not two different groups in this passage. Only one group. After this
    Paul talks about fellow workers these people are arguing about.

    For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

    Paul says these workers are working on a field or building... this field is the same "you" that the letter begins with. The same group of people. After Paul get through talking about the workers and their rewards... he goes back to the original "you" that the ltter starts off with.

    Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS"; and again, "THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS." So then let no one boast in men. For all things belong to you, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you, and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.

    Even those these "infants in Christ" are fleshly and having strife and jealousy. They are still considered.. "in Christ".
    There is carnality n them still. They are arguing over "who they belong to" Paul or Apollos. But Paul says they are both simply
    God's workers in a field. Paul says "you" are that field. Paul ends this passage by saying the Holy Spirit dwells in you.
    Yes the Holy Spirit dwells in the same fleshly infants of Christ. The gist of the last few sentences is... you don't really belong
    to Paul or Apollos. "You" belong to Christ. This the same "you" that the letter starts off with. There is no second audience
    or second group of people to passage is addressed to.
     
  18. Jas 5:14; Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
    Jas 5:15; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
    Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

    So... you're saying if two unbelievers get together and confess their sins to one another. They are saved?
    Jesus doesn't have to be involved at all? This passage doesn't mention Jesus. It says confess your sins to "one another".
    Either this passage is talking about people who are already saved..... or else, we don't really need Jesus.
    Sinners can just confess their sins to "one another" and they are good to go.
     
  19. If their confession preceded a true "turn from" sin, and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins, they would be found worthy of eternal life at the final judgement.
    A true repentance from sin precludes any further sin.

    Why you think this is two unbelievers confessing to each other is beyond me.
    Neither would be the aforementioned "righteous man" of verse 16.

    Before you go any farther in your attempt to pollute the body of Christ with the fruit of the fleshly, let's examine again what seeds can and cannot bring forth.
    Grape vines...grapes.
    Fig trees...figs.
    Adam's seed...sin.
    Christ's seed...purity and truth. Godliness and self-control. Charity and hope. Love and peace.
    Now then, can Godly seed bring forth lies, adultery, lust, vile affections, blasphemy, theft, hate, or anything else not of God?
    The answer is "NO".
    The James 5 folks, sick folks, who are confessing sin, were still bringing forth the fruit of the fleshly Adamic seed.
    They were not reborn of Godly seed....but a confession and true repentance, with baptism, would be the steps all ex-sinners have followed to START their walk in the light toward salvation..
     
  20. But it doesn't mention that anywhere in this passage. Why would add all of that to the Bible? There are warnings about such things.

    I DON'T think they are unsaved. But according to you... if they were really saved. There would be no sin to confess.
    Because according to you. Christians can't sin.
     
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