Searching for God

[B-A-C]

There are some who believe God comes to search us out. And so he does, but some also believe men are unable to search God out. Yet the Bible doesn't seem to support this.

Deu 4:29; "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.
1 Chron 16:10; Glory in His holy name; Let the heart of those who seek the LORD be glad.
1 Chron 22:19; Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the LORD God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the LORD.
2 Chron 11:16; And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

Now of course, we are free not to "seek the Lord if we choose".
2Chron 12:14; And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the LORD.
Psa 14:2; The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God.
Psa 14:3; They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.

Yet despite this, there are many who DO seek the Lord.
Psa 34:10; The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.
Psa 63:1; A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You, In a dry and weary land where there is no water.
Psa 70:4; Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; And let those who love Your salvation say continually, "Let God be magnified."

Isa 55:6; Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Does God seek us out also? Yes of course, but there is nothing that says this has to be a one way affair.
Eze 34:11; For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze 34:12; As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Amos 5:4; For thus saith the LORD unto the house of Israel, Seek ye me, and ye shall live:
Matt 6:33; But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matt 7:7; Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

The main problem with predestination theory is that many churches have stopped evangelizing. After all, God is in control, and if he wants them to be saved, he'll go get them.
Now this does happen occasionally. Saul (who became Paul) on the road to Damascus could be an example of this. But this doesn't seem to happen very often, not even in the Bible.
In fact we are told to go forth and spread the Gospel. This is our primary mission.

Faith in God doesn't magically appear from no where.
Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

God has given us ALL a measure of faith.
Rom 12:3; For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

So if we already have some faith, and faith in God comes by hearing, how do people hear?

The great commission says...
Mar 16:15; And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

Matt 10:7; "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

What did the disciples do?
Acts 14:7; and there they continued to preach the gospel.
Rom 1:15; So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
Eph 3:8; To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

Jas 5:20; let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

In fact could preaching the Gospel be one of these works (that don't save us) yet God has prepared for us?
John 9:4; "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[spirit1st]

I was searching for LOVE and a meaning to life. I saw life so vain and without any real purpose. I went from girl too girl searching for real love. When all the time it was MY LORD JESUS ,I was searching for and did not know it .

I prayed LORD is God is real and the bible is real and there is a real JESUS CHRIST ? Come and show me. I do not want to read it in a book or see it on tv .
If you really died on the cross for me ? Then You can show me ?
Then I said ? Lord if I am not talking to the air and someone can hear me ? I going to fail but every time I do . You help me up and I will go again . At that moment I was Born again. I was so happy I wanted to tell the world and tried . Still trying .

We can be happy and full of joy in a little dog cage. Because our Joy and peace come from above and not this world . Thank YOU LORD JESUS today . tomorrow and forever more

 

[clark thompson]

I believe if people search for the turth and would be willing to accept the truth of the word the Spirit we seek them out and show them the truth.

 

[Sargento]

Hi B-A-C...

Indeed man by him self cannot search God... He does not have he understanding to KNOW HIM much less to find HIM... When a natural man hears about GOD he hears "death" and "insanity" there for it is impossible that man seeks for GOD by it self... He may seek for something, but does not distinguishes GOD from devil nor good from evil nor is he able to WANT GOD because the natural man nature is SIN ... so he cannot find God, nor he knows what he should be looking for.

But like we see, those who are reborn from GOD (the ones that GOD already brought to Jesus) those seek night and day for HIM... NOT that he can't find GOD (which already is in him), but he tries to know GOD better by each day searching for HIS nature in him and meditates night and day about his MASTER will.

We know the bible many times say that man can search GOD, but it also says that that is not possible for the natural man...

"Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged."
1Co 2:14


...so only the spiritual (reborn) can; that is why Jesus said that NO ONE can go to HIM unless the FATHER takes him ...

"No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day."
John 6:44


...which makes our searching dependent of HIM ... many times we see in the old testament GOD ordering his people to search for him by having a good heart (like the verses you quoted)...

Deu 4:29; "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

...however HE say's that only after Christ HE would give us that pure heart which would makes fulfill what HE asks from us...

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them."
Ez 36:26-27

...because before that, the man's heart where a bit "different"...

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?"
Jr 17:9


...and this In spite of all GOD commandments...

"Cast away from you all your transgressions, wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
Ez 18:31

But like Paul said and it is easily concluded here:

"For there is a disannulling of a foregoing commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a bringing in thereupon of a better hope, through which we draw nigh unto God."
Hb 7:18-19


Now, what this shows us is NOT that we can search HIM but precisely that we can't... this is the objective of the LAW of commandments... to show us our "weakness and unprofitableness"... that we cannot please GOD by our selves, but we can only give HIM what HE first gave us. Like John said:

"We love him, because he first loved us."
1John 4:19


We can only search for HIM if HE first saves us .... because other than that, man cannot even desire GOD.

When GOD gave his people commandments in the old testament was not because they could fulfill them, it was to show them that they could not.... and when HE told them to choose life it's the same... that's why HE said:

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, {that} I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
Dt 30:19
This is not a choice (like many like to say)... this is a sentence...This is what HE taught us... that we cannot choose life by our selves... in other words, no free will... we only react the way HE enables us to.

We are entirely at HIS mercy even to accept HIM or reject HIM ... thank GOD for that.

 

[james1523]

There are some who believe God comes to search us out. And so he does, but some also believe men are unable to search God out. Yet the Bible doesn't seem to support this.

Deu 4:29; "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.
1 Chron 16:10; Glory in His holy name; Let the heart of those who seek the LORD be glad.
1 Chron 22:19; Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the LORD God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the LORD.
2 Chron 11:16; And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

As a person who believes in predestination and all that, I can honestly say I do not believe we are not able to seek God. But I do believe we cannot seek God unless He first has enabled or invited us:
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,"

If a person desires to seek God, it is God who put that desire in their heart in the first place:
Phill 2:13 "For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him."

The main problem with predestination theory is that many churches have stopped evangelizing. After all, God is in control, and if he wants them to be saved, he'll go get them.
Now this does happen occasionally. Saul (who became Paul) on the road to Damascus could be an example of this. But this doesn't seem to happen very often, not even in the Bible.
In fact we are told to go forth and spread the Gospel. This is our primary mission.

I think this is a myth actually. According to your view, churches which don't believe in predestination should evangelize so much more than those who do. There is nothing in predestination theory which says "you don't need to evangelize". I have spent many years in non-Calvinist churches that do not evangelize. And the church I attend now which believes in predestination evangelizes extensively a lot more than other churches that don't. Possible reasons for not evangelizing - laziness, not seeing it as important, thinking the world is already evangelized enough (e.g. presence of church buildings), thinking that opening doors on Sunday or inviting people into church is evangelizing etc, thinking it's the pastors/priests job etc.

Both those who believe in predestination and those who don't should like to evangelize simply because it is God's command.
But I will admit that the motive can be different between those who believe in predestination and those who don't. If you don't believe in it, your motive can be that God wants everyone to be saved, so you will try as hard as possible to preach the gospel to every creature , in any and every way possible, you are thinking about a person's eternal destiny, and their need to be saved and not go to hell. Your motivation is human centered.

If you do believe in predestination, your motive will be to find the elect that God has already chosen, your motive is not firstly the person's need for salvation from hell, but most God's will. Both views believe that unless the gospel is preached, the person cannot be saved. But only one view puts the emphasis more on God's will than man's need.

But which view is correct according to scripture revelation? It should be the latter.

Jesus already said that it is up to the Father's choice:
John 6:65 "He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.""
And this verse makes no sense if we believe the Father has chosen everyone.

We make the mistake to think that after giving a command, God wants us to carry it out in our own strength in whatever way possible. This is not true. They were moving in step with the Spirit who told them to go to this place or that place one by one. Sometimes the Spirit forbade them to go to certain places.

If God wanted everyone to be saved, everyone would be saved, and the Spirit would not be so selective about where, when and how the gospel is to be preached. It's that simple.

God already made up His mind the exact number of gentiles who will come to Christ:
Rom 11:25 "...but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ."

God will choose who He wants and they will believe:
Acts 13:48 "and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers."

We have God's general will (preach the gospel to every creature), and we have God's specific will (only those who are enabled will believe and be saved).

Both those who believe in predestination and those who don't, should be preaching the gospel to every creature. Motivations may be different, but as long as the gospel is preached is the main thing.

 

[Sargento]

Well said James... I do not yet know and what do you believe in (only what it looks like) but I liked your post...

Only a non believer or someone who does not know yet what predestination is can find problems in it... because predestination is the essence of all the gospel and testified through all the bible by the law, the prophets, Jesus and the apostles...
Predestination is the TRUTH.

Because we were predestined to spread the gospel so that who is predestined to believe be saved, and who is predestined to not believe perish... all is predestined by the ONE who makes all exist.
And just like HE promised NOT ONE will be lost... there is a fixed number for the saved and for the condemned... it seems to me that you understand this James.

Now, this question might seen stupid (it should), but I've seen it all so to be safe I ask ...

James, do you believe that men has free-will?

 

[B-A-C]

Now, this question might seen stupid (it should), but I've seen it all so to be safe I ask ...

James, do you believe that men has free-will?

Do you believe that God wants some people to go to hell?
2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Do you believe God wants people to sin, he is control of it? We have no choice in whether we are murderers, homosexuals, child-molesters? It's all God's fault?
Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

It must be nice to blame your failures on God.

 

[james1523]

Well said James... I do not yet know and what do you believe in (only what it looks like) but I liked your post...

Only a non believer or someone who does not know yet what predestination is can find problems in it... because predestination is the essence of all the gospel and testified through all the bible by the law, the prophets, Jesus and the apostles...
Predestination is the TRUTH.

Because we were predestined to spread the gospel so that who is predestined to believe be saved, and who is predestined to not believe perish... all is predestined by the ONE who makes all exist.
And just like HE promised NOT ONE will be lost... there is a fixed number for the saved and for the condemned... it seems to me that you understand this James.

Now, this question might seen stupid (it should), but I've seen it all so to be safe I ask ...

James, do you believe that men has free-will?

Free choice and limited in choice by God, not free will.

 

[Sargento]

Hi B-A-C...

Do you believe that God wants some people to go to hell?
2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Do you believe God wants people to sin, he is control of it? We have no choice in whether we are murderers, homosexuals, child-molesters? It's all God's fault?
Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

It must be nice to blame your failures on God.

If HE does not want who will make HIM do it?
Who condemns the sinner? Isn't HE?
Does HE answers to anyone about what HE does so that HE has to do something that HE does not wishes to do? ... if HE didn't wanted some people to go to HELL HE wouldn't just send them there...
Who made the separation by saying "who does this will be saved" and "who does that will be condemned"? Wasn't HE?

HE is the one who saves and who condemns... or is HE not?

Blame???? I didn't talk about blame, you did... there is no blame in HIM by doing what HE want's with what is He's.
It's not about blames or merits (which only exists UNDER the law), it's about HE's will.

About Peter... he is talking about the elect (all of GOD's word is for the elect)... He is waiting until the last one is saved... that's why HE did not came yet... or do you think HE will come only when ALL MAN are saved??? Well, in that case if HE is waiting for that HE will never come.

If HE did not came yet because HE is waiting that all man became saved (and we know that not all man will be saved) WHEN WILL HE COME THAN?

About James....
GOD himself does not tempt... that's true... but who took Jesus to the desert to be tempted? Wasn't the Holy spirit sent by GOD?
Who gave permission to the Devil tempt Job?
Who made the "waster" TO destroy?
Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart so that he disobey Mouses (and then get punished by it)?

My friend NOTHING happens that is not the will of GOD...

...otherwise HE had been failing everyday since the beginning since the serpent ruined HE's plans with Adam, Noah, Mouses, Christ, and nowadays where the world is still in the and of the Devil after so many attempts from GOD of making us love HIM... HE just can't get us to choose HIM...
Not to mention that this devil was an angel that GOD made to be perfect BUT it ended NOT being so perfect after all....

REALLY???

Who will than grant me than this devil which have ruined GOD's plans so many times will not do it again in the end of times and instead of GOD the devil will win???
If GOD fails so much who can grant me that HE will win at the end after all???

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happens that is not the will of GOD...




JAMES...

Free choice and limited in choice by God, not free will.

Well I don't know if I really understood you (because of my English)... what do you mean?

Free choice how?

Well everyone makes choices, but they are not free for the natural man is guided by sin and reborn man are guided by Jesus, none by it's own so that he can choose life when he is in death or death when he is in life because who ever rules that man (Jesus or sin) controls what that man loves ans desires... good three CANNOT deliver a bad fruit nor a bad tree can deliver a good fruit... no man is his own master or has any control over his destiny.
Each man's will has it's master (Jesus or sin) therefore is not free... so sinners are UNABLE to choose Jesus, and justified are UNABLE to choose sin (choices are in the heart - the old or new man - spirit - not actions).

Is this what you mean?

If not, explain better please and ignore what I ask you next ... if so, how do you see this:

What {doth it} profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:14

 

[spirit1st]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Is this scripture truth or false?
2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

From it we see ? God wants all to come to repentance.

Yes God saw it all before the world begin. But He also is trying to get all to accept His FREE Gift of salvation.

He given us All faith so any can accept His free Gift that wants too ?

He changes us into a New Creature and can do this to any He wants too? as long as we accept Jesus as LORD and want He did for us.

What we must do is simple. Even a child can do it.

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom_5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Why would HE die for all mankind sins ?
Why is it HIS WILL that all be saved?

Why did HE give All man kind Faith so they could be saved?
Why does He call us to preach His good news the gospel to all mankind?

What is the point of it all ,if He only going to save certain ones any way?
Why leave us here to preach the gospel ? why not just take us home once we have eternal life?

When a person starts thinking they are more important than others ? Then we start having a problem ?
Because HE sees All of us sinners 100% None better or worse.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

He makes us a Brand new creature ,it does not matter what kind of person we were before He made us New Beings.

Thinking your old being was some how better than some one else sin filled body is not wise.

 

[james1523]

Well I don't know if I really understood you (because of my English)... what do you mean?

Free choice how?

Well everyone makes choices, but they are not free for the natural man is guided by sin and reborn man are guided by Jesus, none by it's own so that he can choose life when he is in death or death when he is in life because who ever rules that man (Jesus or sin) controls what that man loves ans desires... good three CANNOT deliver a bad fruit nor a bad tree can deliver a good fruit... no man is his own master or has any control over his destiny.
Each man's will has it's master (Jesus or sin) therefore is not free... so sinners are UNABLE to choose Jesus, and justified are UNABLE to choose sin (choices are in the heart - the old or new man - spirit - not actions).

Is this what you mean?

If not, explain better please and ignore what I ask you next ... if so, how do you see this:

What {doth it} profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:14

You are describing free will not free choice. Choice means choosing between two or more possible options set before us. No man can come to God unless God has enabled him. No one can have anything unless God gives it to him. Will means our intent and ability to make something happen. IF we are in death we cannot "will" ourself into life, but we can choose life once God sets the option before us. Hence our will is not free, but our choice is.

 

[Sargento]

James...

I'm not getting why you make this separation... is correct that they are not the same, but they are in the same condition what makes it irrelevant in this matter.
Or is there something else in it you haven't told yet?

Does your choice not depends on your will??

James, you choose, no doubt about it.... there's choice just like there's will... you HAVE a will and you MAKE choices, no problem here... but none of them is FREE.

Our will depends on our nature, and our choice depends o our will... or is it not?
So they are both LIMITED and if you fallow this line (no matter what path you take) it will allways come down to the will of GOD and everything is constrained to HIM ... NOTHING IS FREE FOR ITS OWN .... it all depends on the nature and gifts GOD gave us.

 

[spirit1st]

Our will depends on our nature, and our choice depends o our will... or is it not?
So they are both LIMITED and if you fallow this line (no matter what path you take) it will allways come down to the will of GOD and everything is constrained to HIM ... NOTHING IS FREE FOR ITS OWN .... it all depends on the nature and gifts GOD gave us.

All of us have the same nature . a sin nature. We are All born into sin. It automatic.

Only JESUS CHRIST was born without a sin nature.

God calls us and tests us and if we accepted HIM as LORD and HIs gospel as Truth . Then He gives us a New Spirit , which makes us a brand new creature.
It has nothing to do with our weak sin filled flesh .

It just up to us to Accept or reject HIS Free Gift .

I believe we chose which we want more ? LOVE and Truth or darkness?

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
It Not about one being a good Sinner and one being a bad Sinner


Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[james1523]

James...

I'm not getting why you make this separation... is correct that they are not the same, but they are in the same condition what makes it irrelevant in this matter.
Or is there something else in it you haven't told yet?

Does your choice not depends on your will??

James, you choose, no doubt about it.... there's choice just like there's will... you HAVE a will and you MAKE choices, no problem here... but none of them is FREE.

Our will depends on our nature, and our choice depends o our will... or is it not?
So they are both LIMITED and if you fallow this line (no matter what path you take) it will allways come down to the will of GOD and everything is constrained to HIM ... NOTHING IS FREE FOR ITS OWN .... it all depends on the nature and gifts GOD gave us.

We making thousands of choices each day in an environment limited and determined by God's will. Thus our will is not free but our choices are. God does not choose for us.

 

[spirit1st]

We go against our own flesh will or flesh choice when we decide GOD Living Words are the Truth and not our feelings or desires and even
wants .

Our flesh has a different will would make a different choice . This make any sense to you ?

We see the truth is in our LORD and HIS LOVE for us is more important than anything we might desire or chose or want?

People get the wrong thought from the beginning and it leads them away from Truth .
Because it always starts off with Us . Not HIM.

this will always mess up our thinking and that what satan counting on .

Deep within our Heart is a Strong powerful desire for JESUS and Truth . It not in the outward mind .It because we were made by LOVE to LOVE and be LOVED.
It about LOVE . GOD is LOVE.

GOD made us for HIS pleasure , Not so we could please ourselves.

Yes It true HE wants us Happy and full of JOY.

It HIS pleasure to make us Happy .

It never about Us . When It starts it Starts off Us ? then we messed up!

 

[Sargento]

We making thousands of choices each day in an environment limited and determined by God's will. Thus our will is not free but our choices are. God does not choose for us.

James... that does not make any point...

God does not choose for us??? Like HE does not WANT for us???
What kind of an argument is that my friend?

Your conclusion is not supported by your previous sayings... what you said before does not lead to your conclusion.

James, doesn't your choice depends on your will?

 

[Sargento]

Spirit1st... I will answer you when you learn to answer me.

 

[james1523]

James... that does not make any point...

God does not choose for us??? Like HE does not WANT for us???
What kind of an argument is that my friend?

Your conclusion is not supported by your previous sayings... what you said before does not lead to your conclusion.

James, doesn't your choice depends on your will?

God sets the options before us. We make the choice, not necessarily according to our will, but also according to our nature, or the will of others.
It is very easy to prove that we do not always make choices according to our own will.
Other's will e.g. "Peer pressure" - making choices based upon the will of others
God's will- making choices based upon God's will not our own
Our feeling - making choice based upon how we feel
Our thinking - making choice based upon what we think
Random choosing - making choice completely at random , e.g. rolling dice, and going with that outcome.

In other words, we don't always make choices based upon what we intend, we make choices based upon a range of factors, such as what we feel, what we think, what is happening outside of us.
Our choice is free, our will is not.
The Christian's will is surrendered to God's will - not total free, but able to make good or bad choices.
The unbeliever's will is bound by their sinful nature - not total free, but able to make good (or bad) choices.
But both the Christian and unbeliever are free to make choices.

Many times our will or intent is opposite what choice we make. For example I intend to be kind to my friend but I end up doing something (unwillingly). to hurt them. Or I intend (or will) to arrive at work early but my stomach is growling so much and I'm hungry so I buy some food and end up arriving at work late.
If you believe choice is always result of our will, you must not believe in unwillful sin? Unintentional choices?

 

[Sargento]

God sets the options before us. We make the choice, not necessarily according to our will, but also according to our nature, or the will of others.

Your mixing things in the wrong way James ... you are mixing CHOICE with DEEDS (although none of them is free)... try to understand James...

That does not mean it is FREE ... if you choose according to your nature (and you do) than your choice it's constrained to your nature, and has we know the natural man's nature is sin, and the reborn nature is Christ... none is free but each one slave of their master.
And that nature, according to what is present to it makes a choice according to what it wants witch depends of what it is (sin or Christ).

However the choice is made in your heart, not in your actions... but from your heart (choice) to your actions there's one more step because every action must pass trough flesh before it happens, and the flesh does not agree with the reborn nature.

And if you want to do something (you make a choice) and end up making something else (against your choice) how can that action (which you called choice) be free?

Ok, if choice are actions (from what I understood of your explanation) and you do what you don't want to do how is it that they are FREE?? If you have no control over them how are your "choices" free...

They are not (your actions or "choices") free... they are enslaved to sin.


The real choice is made in the heart and is enslaved by your heart which is enslaved by Jesus or sin.. so, not free... and your actions are enslaved by sin and not free either because like you said you sometimes do not do what you want and do what you don't want to do.


My friend, this last argument of yours does not proves that your choice (heart) is free ... but it does proves that is NOT because you by yourself have testified that you do what you do not wan't to do.
Not only did you NOT proved me wrong, but also you proved yourself wrong because you've just refuted you previous statement that you have a free choice (if choices are actions like you say).... HOW IS IT FREE WHEN IT'S AGAINST YOUR WILL?


So, you have no freedom over your will or over your actions... so no free nothing what so ever.
Try to understand.... it's no rocket science.

 

[james1523]

Your mixing things in the wrong way James ... you are mixing CHOICE with DEEDS (although none of them is free)... try to understand James...

That does not mean it is FREE ... if you choose according to your nature (and you do) than your choice it's constrained to your nature, and has we know the natural man's nature is sin, and the reborn nature is Christ... none is free but each one slave of their master.
And that nature, according to what is present to it makes a choice according to what it wants witch depends of what it is (sin or Christ).

However the choice is made in your heart, not in your actions... but from your heart (choice) to your actions there's one more step because every action must pass trough flesh before it happens, and the flesh does not agree with the reborn nature.

And if you want to do something (you make a choice) and end up making something else (against your choice) how can that action (which you called choice) be free?

Ok, if choice are actions (from what I understood of your explanation) and you do what you don't want to do how is it that they are FREE?? If you have no control over them how are your "choices" free...

They are not (your actions or "choices") free... they are enslaved to sin.


The real choice is made in the heart and is enslaved by your heart which is enslaved by Jesus or sin.. so, not free... and your actions are enslaved by sin and not free either because like you said you sometimes do not do what you want and do what you don't want to do.


My friend, this last argument of yours does not proves that your choice (heart) is free ... but it does proves that is NOT because you by yourself have testified that you do what you do not wan't to do.
Not only did you NOT proved me wrong, but also you proved yourself wrong because you've just refuted you previous statement that you have a free choice (if choices are actions like you say).... HOW IS IT FREE WHEN IT'S AGAINST YOUR WILL?


So, you have no freedom over your will or over your actions... so no free nothing what so ever.
Try to understand.... it's no rocket science.

In our experience it is obvious that human beings are free to choose according to or even contrary to their nature - this is also not rocket science. Making choices contrary to our nature is called hypocrisy or pretense. The fact that human beings have the ability to make such choices and behave in ways contrary to their nature, proves free choice.

If human beings were not able to make choices contrary to their nature, then there would be no evil men who appear good, and no good men who appear evil. The devil could never appear as an angel of light. Think about it.

The human will is our intentions. We may intend to do things but in fact choose the opposite. I use the example of actions and choices often contradicting our wills, to prove that our choices are free.

Human beings do not always make choices according to their will or their nature. We can make choices according to our feelings or thoughts. We can make choices opposite our nature by pretending. Of course the will is always involved, but a person can make a choice according to their feeling which is contrary to their intention or will.

The human will is only one part of the human soul, keep in mind that all parts play a part in our choices.