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Saved by his finished work on the cross ? Really ?.

Member
Where does the bible say we are saved by his death ?
Are we not saved by his life ?
Of course we cannot be saved apart from his death . But we were not saved when Jesus said " it is finished " .
What was finished? Were you still unsaved when Jesus said this?
How are we saved by his life ?
Do some over look the resurrection with so much focus on his death ?
Calvinsm seems to fall into this trap. Using such phrases as " died to save " , Saved by the finished work on the cross " ect
Then there's the issue of the atonement. Some say it was limited but this is crazy in light of scripture. The Atonement is not the only part of salvation. Its not the execution of it . It doesn't save anyone. It has to be received and it doesn't glorify anyone .
Thoughts ?
 
Active
Read the epistle to the Romans and the epistle to the Hebrews
explains it all to those whose eyes and hearts are open to instruction
 
Active
A verse does not a doctrine make. Read the epistles yourself thoughtfully and learn.
It is all explained in these two epistles what Jesus accomplished for us.
 
Member
A verse does not a doctrine make. Read the epistles yourself thoughtfully and learn.
It is all explained in these two epistles what Jesus accomplished for us.
Yes I've read both and my post is based off what its contained primarily in those books ,so you must be reading them in a strange way ?
 
Active
Yes I've read both and my post is based off what its contained primarily in those books ,so you must be reading them in a strange way ?
Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So it is not the death or ressurection of Jesus that saves us....Its God's empowering PRESENCE in our life that saves us... Yes, Jesus died so that we can live with Him...He rose from the dead so He could have us rise from the dead but it's GRACE [Gods empowering PRESENCE] that saves us.
 
Member
Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace [Gods empowering PRESENCE] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So it is not the death or ressurection of Jesus that saves us....Its God's empowering PRESENCE in our life that saves us... Yes, Jesus died so that we can live with Him...He rose from the dead so He could have us rise from the dead but it's GRACE [Gods empowering PRESENCE] that saves us.
Rom 5
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
LIFE .

1cor 1.21
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE

Titus 3.5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 1.13

2That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is how .
 
Active
But in the end it is all about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as our Redeemer and God
Romans 5:
6 While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Why, one will hardly die for a righteous man - though perhaps for a good man one will dare even to die.
8 But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
11 Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received our reconciliation.
 
Active
Romans 5:
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For he who has died is freed from sin. 8 But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
9 For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.
13 Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness.
14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
 
Active
Could you share one verse please?
Three for the price of one :blush: Isaiah 53: -

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Active
Where does the bible say we are saved by his death ?
Are we not saved by his life ?
Of course we cannot be saved apart from his death . But we were not saved when Jesus said " it is finished " .
What was finished? Were you still unsaved when Jesus said this?
How are we saved by his life ?
Do some over look the resurrection with so much focus on his death ?
Calvinism seems to fall into this trap. Using such phrases as " died to save " , Saved by the finished work on the cross " ect
Then there's the issue of the atonement. Some say it was limited but this is crazy in light of scripture. The Atonement is not the only part of salvation. Its not the execution of it . It doesn't save anyone. It has to be received and it doesn't glorify anyone .
Thoughts ?
'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.
(Rom 5:8-11)

Hello @Free gift,

Are we not saved by His life? - Yes we are saved by his life.

What was finished? - The work that God had sent the Lord Jesus Christ into the world to do.

How are we saved by His life? - Christ's continued intercession for those who are justified by His blood, ensures that they are saved from wrath through Him.
On believing we are placed 'in Christ', and thereby identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. So as Christ now walks in the light of God's presence so do we, 'in Him', walk in newness of life before the Father: and when He appears in glory, the members of the Church which is His Body will appear with Him there.

The resurrection was essential, for it was God's acceptance of the sacrificial offering made, which made our forgiveness possible.

Would you please explain your last statement concerning Atonement?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
Where does the bible say we are saved by his death ?
Are we not saved by his life ?
Of course we cannot be saved apart from his death . But we were not saved when Jesus said " it is finished " .
What was finished? Were you still unsaved when Jesus said this?
How are we saved by his life ?
Do some over look the resurrection with so much focus on his death ?
Calvinsm seems to fall into this trap. Using such phrases as " died to save " , Saved by the finished work on the cross " ect
Then there's the issue of the atonement. Some say it was limited but this is crazy in light of scripture. The Atonement is not the only part of salvation. Its not the execution of it . It doesn't save anyone. It has to be received and it doesn't glorify anyone .
Thoughts ?
We are saved by receipt of God's gift, through our faith in HIS gift, that is: Jesus Christ. His life, His ministry, His commands, His crucifxion, His death, His burial, His resurrection, His ascension, HIM. It's all about Jesus, who is God incarnate. Amen.
 
Loyal
Even though His works are finished, we are still required to be obedient.

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
 
Active
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ having come a high priest of the good things that are come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is, not of this creation,
9:12 nor yet through blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered once for all into the holies, having obtained eternal redemption.
9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling the defiled, sanctify unto the cleanness of the flesh:
9:14 how much more shall the blood of the Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our conscience from dead works to serve a living God?
9:15 And for this cause he is mediator of a new covenant, so that a death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, the called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
9:16 For where a testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him that made it.
 
Active
' When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished":
and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.'
(John 19:30)

What a Saviour!!
'Son of Man', and 'Son of God'.
Forgive our foolish ways,
and receive our thankfulness and praise,
as recipients of your love and grace,
for which you suffered the agonies of the cross,
and rose again that we may life through You.
Amen.
 
Active
@Free gift
Are you Born Again?
Is the " free gift" because you where saved by God's Grace?

Without the Resurrection that gives life, His death on the cross was meaningless!
 
Member

dlb

Read the epistle to the Romans and the epistle to the Hebrews
explains it all to those whose eyes and hearts are open to instruction
Sometimes I think we as Christians debate so dogmatically we miss the entire point of scripture!
 
Active
Sometimes I think we as Christians debate so dogmatically we miss the entire point of scripture!
That is why it is important to read scripture for oneself.
I think a lot of Christians do very little reading and rely on snippets.
But for
Where does the bible say we are saved by his death ?
the best answer is to read two major epistles that addresses the debate raised in the OP - and I might also suggest Ephesians.
Clearly scripture will teach Free gift what he wants to know - whether he believes it is another matter.
 
Member
Three for the price of one :blush: Isaiah 53: -

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Any mention of ' saved ' there? Its a prophecy of what he would do yes .
 
Member
'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.
(Rom 5:8-11)

Hello @Free gift,

Are we not saved by His life? - Yes we are saved by his life.

What was finished? - The work that God had sent the Lord Jesus Christ into the world to do.

How are we saved by His life? - Christ's continued intercession for those who are justified by His blood, ensures that they are saved from wrath through Him.
On believing we are placed 'in Christ', and thereby identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. So as Christ now walks in the light of God's presence so do we, 'in Him', walk in newness of life before the Father: and when He appears in glory, the members of the Church which is His Body will appear with Him there.

The resurrection was essential, for it was God's acceptance of the sacrificial offering made, which made our forgiveness possible.

Would you please explain your last statement concerning Atonement?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
expand...
'But God commendeth His love toward us, ( the whole world )
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.( The whole world)
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,( Everyone without exception) we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, ( 2cor 5.29 . Everyone without exception)
much more, being reconciled,( only those who recieve Jesus by Faith ) we shall be saved by his life.( Saved by his life , resurrection)
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement. ( We have to recieve ,so when he died ,we were not saved
 

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