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Salvation vs. rules

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Member
It seems to me that, in general, rules are man's way of trying to force people to behave in a Godly way without allowing God into the picture. Hence, people grow up expecting lots of rules; lots of hoops to jump through to be accepted in society and it is only natural that they carry that belief over into the spiritual realm.
It is woven into the fabric of their lives. People are flabbergasted at the idea that salvation was purchased by Jesus Christ on the cross and made available to us as the supreme Gift of Love.


When we witness to these people, we need to keep in mind that our frame of reference on this issue is totally different than theirs. Too many times, in the Christian chat rooms I visit, I've seen well meaning Christians hammering non-believers with Bible verses, throwing the seekers into confusion.

We need to talk to them about God's love from the pages of our own experience, not the pages of the Bible. To seekers, the Bible is not yet relevant in their lives. Many of them don't know Jesus from Santa Claus. They are not going to be drawn to Christ by Bible verses. Personal testimonies, kept short and to the point, are the key to effective witnessing.
 
Member
Great thread ! When a person is lost , the last thing they can hear is a scripture spitter ! satan told them that christians all just rattle off scriptures and can't even hear most of the time . Thanks Ed for posting the truth . Mike
 
Member
Right on! The seeker needs to know what a relationship to Christ and his love for us means to us personally. What is our experience been and how is He real to us each day.

These answers shared with a seeker can lead him/her to ask how can I have/ know Jesus like you do?

This question can lead to a call to accepting Him as your saviour and that will lead to bible verses and reading the scriptur to get to know Him.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Definitely a great thread. I do not remember anyone else starting a topic like this.

I honestly would have felt the same if someone threw Scripture at me and I was not saved at the time. I would feel harassed practically.

Testimonies are great. Also, some examples of proof that GOD exists also are awesome.
 
Member
hello
This made me laugh out loud really alot spiritleded! i am not one too but i do know jesus from santa claus only just tho. i was not raised to know about thi s stuff and it is all new to me. ha!
but i f i have too many bible words i just look at them flyin bye me as i cant understand what they all mean haha!

but i am learnin tho. i ask so many questions to find out why people do stuff and what they do exactly so i can see how it all works out in ther life. thats easier for me to know sometimes.

i am still laughing to myself. it is really true what you said.

thanx
 
Member
I love it....I quite agree. I know when I was a seeker, the last thing I wanted was people chucking and quoting bible verses at me...anyways it was not untill I really committed myself to Christ that the bible made any sense anywway!!! up untill then it was just a bunch of words. It was not untill I came across people whose lives had been really affected by God that I could see Gods love was genuine and real. It also meant you not only had to beleive in God you had to learn to trust again and that is not something that is easy to do at the start!!!
Right on, I love this thread and I quite agree, speaking personnally I would rather have short, honest testominies and seekers need to see truth, they need to see things they can relate to and they need to know how God has helped people in their own lives. Bible passages and growing within Gods word....well that comes as your growth with christ deepens and grows, first Gods love needs to touch your heart and then he opens your eyes which have been blind and he lifts you into his light and glory. Praise God for his copmpassion and love..Amen.
 
Member
That is true and sometimes they know the word better than you do. But we must do everything in love. And remember that only God can give the increase and only the spirit can convict we can only plant and water.
 
Member
It seems to me that, in general, rules are man's way of trying to force people to behave in a Godly way without allowing God into the picture. Hence, people grow up expecting lots of rules; lots of hoops to jump through to be accepted in society and it is only natural that they carry that belief over into the spiritual realm.
It is woven into the fabric of their lives. People are flabbergasted at the idea that salvation was purchased by Jesus Christ on the cross and made available to us as the supreme Gift of Love.


When we witness to these people, we need to keep in mind that our frame of reference on this issue is totally different than theirs. Too many times, in the Christian chat rooms I visit, I've seen well meaning Christians hammering non-believers with Bible verses, throwing the seekers into confusion.

We need to talk to them about God's love from the pages of our own experience, not the pages of the Bible. To seekers, the Bible is not yet relevant in their lives. Many of them don't know Jesus from Santa Claus. They are not going to be drawn to Christ by Bible verses. Personal testimonies, kept short and to the point, are the key to effective witnessing.
Dear Brother SpiritLedEd,

Thank you so much for sharing this with me. I longed to see something regarding this matter. It is very much true indeed, many of my doubts got clarified by this thread.

God bless you.
 
Member
let the word of God speak

1 peter 1:23. being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever. Then they will learn this truth, by the word of GOD.

The Word of God

One of the greatest gifts God has ever given mankind is His written Word. His Word has numerous blessings for us. Please consider the following descriptions given by the Holy Spirit to illustrate the various benefits of this priceless gift. It is seed (Mk. 4:4 cf. 4:14) through which one is born again (1 Pet. 1:23). As plant seed has potential for plant life, the Word of God has the potential of imparting eternal life. This is why God's Word is also known as the word of life (Phil. 2:16). His Word not only imparts life, but it also sustains life! As a living plant is sustained by periodic waterings and food derived from the soil, God's Word is likened unto water (Eph. 5:26) and food (Mt. 4:4). More specifically, it is both milk and solid food (Heb. 5:12-14). In fact, as newborn babies crave milk, we are to crave pure spiritual milk, so that we can grow up in our salvation (1 Pet. 2:2). This word translated crave in the Greek means: earnestly desire greatly; greatly long after; intensely crave or lust. We are to keep a continuous appetite for God's Word to insure spiritual growth, which is commanded (1 Pet. 2:2)!


God's Word is also life and health (Prov. 4:22). This word rendered health can also be translated medicine; cure, deliverance or remedy. God's Word has a positive effect on our spirits, souls and bodies, just like medicine does in the natural to a sick body.


Furthermore, God's Word is enduring (1 Pet. 1:23), eternal (Mt. 24:35), flawless (2 Sam. 22:31; Psa. 18:30) and pure (Psa. 12:6). Regarding its purity, we read:



"And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times" (Psa. 12:6).
In other words, God's Word is perfectly pure and free of the slightest flaw!


It is also living (Heb. 4:12). In fact, as a living force, God's Word is at work in Christians (1 Thess. 2:13)! How is it working in us? It impedes our sinning (Psa. 119:9-11) and sanctifies us (Jn. 17:17). With all this in mind, is it any wonder why our adversary, the devil, tries to greatly hinder our personal time in God's Word?


The Bible doesn't just contain the Word of God, it IS the Word of God! Jesus taught that every minute detail will be fulfilled (Mt. 5:18). It is truth (Jn. 17:17) and cannot be broken (Jn. 10:35). It is the ultimate source of truth on whatever it refers to, not just spiritual things. In fact, it is even called "the word of truth" whereby we have been given birth (Jam. 1:18).


His written Word is "more certain" than His audible Word (2 Pet. 1:19)! (What incredible assurance of truth the Bible offers.) The early church believed the final court of appeal and our absolute standard of truth is God's written Word, not some man-made creed or confession (2 Tim. 3:16,17). Scripture has been given for correction, doctrine, training in righteousness and reproof. This word, Scripture, in the Greek is Graphe and means: document or writings. In other words, His written Word is the objective standard for truth that He has given mankind. This means that if a dream, vision, prophecy, teaching, testimony, experience, etc. is in contradiction to His written Word, it CANNOT be from the same source as His written Word, since God could never contradict Himself. We are to test everything (1 Thess. 5:21) and everyone (1 Jn. 4:1) with the Bible.


Furthermore, Jesus declared that His very own words will be the basis of judgment for all who reject Him and will condemn them (Jn. 12:48). See also Rom. 2:2. In these terrible times (2 Tim. 3:1) with things taught by demons (1 Tim. 4:1) and many being deceived by false prophets and false teachers (Mt. 24:11,24; 2 Pet. 2:1.), we MUST stick like the proverbial glue to the message of the Bible to be safe. This should give us all added incentive to learn the Bible and hold on to its eternal truths.


Like the blood of Christ, which alone can wash away our sins, the Word of God enables mankind to enter God's Paradise Kingdom, for through God's Word we can learn His plan of salvation (2 Tim. 3:15). Peter was right in believing that Jesus had the words of eternal life (Jn. 6:68). This, obviously, is the ultimate benefit that can be derived from learning God's Word. There are, however, many other derived benefits. Knowledge on any given subject mentioned is promised (Psa. 119:105,130). If only we would learn to first go to our Creator's handbook for successful living, many of life's woes would never come! For example, one reason Proverbs was written was to impart wisdom in dealing with people. We are specifically told that meditation in and obedience to God's Word is the key to success and prosperity, from God's perspective (Josh. 1:8). Besides imparting knowledge, God's Word will cause us to live meaningful Christian lives here by bringing forth fruit (Psa. 1:1-4), which He requires from us (Lk. 13:6-9; Jn. 15:1-8).


Job was one of the most righteous in Old Testament times (Ezek. 14:14). This man's attitude towards God's Word is exemplary. Notice how he valued the Word of God:



"I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread" (Job. 23:12b).
One with a true understanding of God's Word will regard it as precious or "treasured" as Job said! This righteous man's attitude can be contrasted to the backslidden in heart, who refused to repent in Jeremiah's day:



"... The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it" (Jer. 6:10c).
God's Word can cut our hearts like a sword (Heb. 4:12), since it is spirit (Jn. 6:63), as was the case in Jeremiah's day. Peter found the same to be true when he preached the Word of God to the sinful who were "cut to the heart" (Acts 2:37). This word cut in the Greek means: pierce thoroughly! They were hurt by God's sharp, double-edged sword of the Spirit, which brought their true, spiritual condition to light, before they repented and got saved. See 2 Cor. 7:10.


The Word of God in the lips of a faithful Christian has much potential in the lives of many. (In other words, your life can benefit others eternally.) This, in part, is why the devil will send trouble or persecution our way when we decide to live by and speak His truth (Mk. 4:17). Because of this trouble or persecution, some have "fall[en] away" after they believed for a while (Lk. 8:13). The devil will send adversity because God's Word ruins his kingdom of deception and bondage. He also steals the Word of God away from the hearts of those who hear the truth and reject it (Mt. 13:19)! All of the aforementioned should prove, beyond doubt, that we should tremble at His Word (Isa. 66:2) because of its powerful effects, which will stretch into eternity for us all. there is no power in our words but only by 1 thes 1:5-6). For our gospel came not unto you in Word only, but also in Power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance, as you know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.And you became followers of us, and of the Lord , having received the Word in much affliction, with Joy of the Holy Ghost.Then they will learn what Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord JESUS CHRIST. acts 20:21-acts 26:20). Praise GOD
 
Member
1 peter 1:23. being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever. Then they will learn this truth, by the word of GOD.

The Word of God

One of the greatest gifts God has ever given mankind is His written Word. His Word has numerous blessings for us. Please consider the following descriptions given by the Holy Spirit to illustrate the various benefits of this priceless gift. It is seed (Mk. 4:4 cf. 4:14) through which one is born again (1 Pet. 1:23). As plant seed has potential for plant life, the Word of God has the potential of imparting eternal life. This is why God's Word is also known as the word of life (Phil. 2:16). His Word not only imparts life, but it also sustains life! As a living plant is sustained by periodic waterings and food derived from the soil, God's Word is likened unto water (Eph. 5:26) and food (Mt. 4:4). More specifically, it is both milk and solid food (Heb. 5:12-14). In fact, as newborn babies crave milk, we are to crave pure spiritual milk, so that we can grow up in our salvation (1 Pet. 2:2). This word translated crave in the Greek means: earnestly desire greatly; greatly long after; intensely crave or lust. We are to keep a continuous appetite for God's Word to insure spiritual growth, which is commanded (1 Pet. 2:2)!


God's Word is also life and health (Prov. 4:22). This word rendered health can also be translated medicine; cure, deliverance or remedy. God's Word has a positive effect on our spirits, souls and bodies, just like medicine does in the natural to a sick body.


Furthermore, God's Word is enduring (1 Pet. 1:23), eternal (Mt. 24:35), flawless (2 Sam. 22:31; Psa. 18:30) and pure (Psa. 12:6). Regarding its purity, we read:



"And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times" (Psa. 12:6).
In other words, God's Word is perfectly pure and free of the slightest flaw!


It is also living (Heb. 4:12). In fact, as a living force, God's Word is at work in Christians (1 Thess. 2:13)! How is it working in us? It impedes our sinning (Psa. 119:9-11) and sanctifies us (Jn. 17:17). With all this in mind, is it any wonder why our adversary, the devil, tries to greatly hinder our personal time in God's Word?


The Bible doesn't just contain the Word of God, it IS the Word of God! Jesus taught that every minute detail will be fulfilled (Mt. 5:18). It is truth (Jn. 17:17) and cannot be broken (Jn. 10:35). It is the ultimate source of truth on whatever it refers to, not just spiritual things. In fact, it is even called "the word of truth" whereby we have been given birth (Jam. 1:18).


His written Word is "more certain" than His audible Word (2 Pet. 1:19)! (What incredible assurance of truth the Bible offers.) The early church believed the final court of appeal and our absolute standard of truth is God's written Word, not some man-made creed or confession (2 Tim. 3:16,17). Scripture has been given for correction, doctrine, training in righteousness and reproof. This word, Scripture, in the Greek is Graphe and means: document or writings. In other words, His written Word is the objective standard for truth that He has given mankind. This means that if a dream, vision, prophecy, teaching, testimony, experience, etc. is in contradiction to His written Word, it CANNOT be from the same source as His written Word, since God could never contradict Himself. We are to test everything (1 Thess. 5:21) and everyone (1 Jn. 4:1) with the Bible.


Furthermore, Jesus declared that His very own words will be the basis of judgment for all who reject Him and will condemn them (Jn. 12:48). See also Rom. 2:2. In these terrible times (2 Tim. 3:1) with things taught by demons (1 Tim. 4:1) and many being deceived by false prophets and false teachers (Mt. 24:11,24; 2 Pet. 2:1.), we MUST stick like the proverbial glue to the message of the Bible to be safe. This should give us all added incentive to learn the Bible and hold on to its eternal truths.


Like the blood of Christ, which alone can wash away our sins, the Word of God enables mankind to enter God's Paradise Kingdom, for through God's Word we can learn His plan of salvation (2 Tim. 3:15). Peter was right in believing that Jesus had the words of eternal life (Jn. 6:68). This, obviously, is the ultimate benefit that can be derived from learning God's Word. There are, however, many other derived benefits. Knowledge on any given subject mentioned is promised (Psa. 119:105,130). If only we would learn to first go to our Creator's handbook for successful living, many of life's woes would never come! For example, one reason Proverbs was written was to impart wisdom in dealing with people. We are specifically told that meditation in and obedience to God's Word is the key to success and prosperity, from God's perspective (Josh. 1:8). Besides imparting knowledge, God's Word will cause us to live meaningful Christian lives here by bringing forth fruit (Psa. 1:1-4), which He requires from us (Lk. 13:6-9; Jn. 15:1-8).


Job was one of the most righteous in Old Testament times (Ezek. 14:14). This man's attitude towards God's Word is exemplary. Notice how he valued the Word of God:



"I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread" (Job. 23:12b).
One with a true understanding of God's Word will regard it as precious or "treasured" as Job said! This righteous man's attitude can be contrasted to the backslidden in heart, who refused to repent in Jeremiah's day:



"... The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it" (Jer. 6:10c).
God's Word can cut our hearts like a sword (Heb. 4:12), since it is spirit (Jn. 6:63), as was the case in Jeremiah's day. Peter found the same to be true when he preached the Word of God to the sinful who were "cut to the heart" (Acts 2:37). This word cut in the Greek means: pierce thoroughly! They were hurt by God's sharp, double-edged sword of the Spirit, which brought their true, spiritual condition to light, before they repented and got saved. See 2 Cor. 7:10.


The Word of God in the lips of a faithful Christian has much potential in the lives of many. (In other words, your life can benefit others eternally.) This, in part, is why the devil will send trouble or persecution our way when we decide to live by and speak His truth (Mk. 4:17). Because of this trouble or persecution, some have "fall[en] away" after they believed for a while (Lk. 8:13). The devil will send adversity because God's Word ruins his kingdom of deception and bondage. He also steals the Word of God away from the hearts of those who hear the truth and reject it (Mt. 13:19)! All of the aforementioned should prove, beyond doubt, that we should tremble at His Word (Isa. 66:2) because of its powerful effects, which will stretch into eternity for us all. there is no power in our words but only by 1 thes 1:5-6). For our gospel came not unto you in Word only, but also in Power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance, as you know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.And you became followers of us, and of the Lord , having received the Word in much affliction, with Joy of the Holy Ghost.Then they will learn what Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord JESUS CHRIST. acts 20:21-acts 26:20). Praise GOD
Dear brother,

If you don't mind, could you please tell me, in what way you intended to link your post with the original post. I just could not make out, in what manner you tried to link your reply to the original post.

God bless you.
 
Member
Just saying a quick sinners prayer does not make someone a Christian. It needs to be real and heart-felt and it is also important to follow the teachings of Jesus. Juat believing is not enough because even the demons believe,
 
Member
It seems to me that, in general, rules are man's way of trying to force people to behave in a Godly way without allowing God into the picture. Hence, people grow up expecting lots of rules; lots of hoops to jump through to be accepted in society and it is only natural that they carry that belief over into the spiritual realm.
It is woven into the fabric of their lives. People are flabbergasted at the idea that salvation was purchased by Jesus Christ on the cross and made available to us as the supreme Gift of Love.


When we witness to these people, we need to keep in mind that our frame of reference on this issue is totally different than theirs. Too many times, in the Christian chat rooms I visit, I've seen well meaning Christians hammering non-believers with Bible verses, throwing the seekers into confusion.

We need to talk to them about God's love from the pages of our own experience, not the pages of the Bible. To seekers, the Bible is not yet relevant in their lives. Many of them don't know Jesus from Santa Claus. They are not going to be drawn to Christ by Bible verses. Personal testimonies, kept short and to the point, are the key to effective witnessing.

Amen x 10! Religion works on the outside and God works from the inside out.:shade:
 
Member
Just saying a quick sinners prayer does not make someone a Christian. It needs to be real and heart-felt and it is also important to follow the teachings of Jesus. Juat believing is not enough because even the demons believe,
If you gave your heart to Christ and meant it you will be saved. If you were not sincere you will miss God and become religious or go right back into the world.
Demons do believe but then they cannot be born again.
 

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