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Discussion in 'Sermons' started by Br. Bear, May 26, 2018.

  1. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:8


    Here are three of the key-words of the New Testament-’grace,’ ‘saved,’ ‘faith.’ Once these terms were strange and new; now they are old and threadbare. Once they were like lava, glowing and cast up from the central depths; but it is a long while since the eruption, and the blocks have got cold, and the corners have been rubbed off them. I am afraid that some people, when they read such a text, will shrug the shoulder of weariness, and think that they are in for a dreary sermon.

    But the more familiar a word is, the more likely are common ideas about it to be hazy. We substitute acquaintance with the sound for penetration into the sense. A frond of sea-weed, as long as it is in the ocean, unfolds its delicate films and glows with its subdued colours. Take it out, and it is hard and brown and ugly, and you have to plunge it into the water again before you see its beauty. So with these well-worn Christian terms; you have to put them back, by meditation and thought, especially as to their bearing on yourself, in order to understand their significance and to feel their power. And, although it is very hard, I want to try and do that for a few moments with this grand thought that lies in my text.

    I. Here we have the Christian view of man’s deepest need, and God’s greatest gift.

    ‘Ye have been saved.’ Now, as I have said, ‘saved,’ and ‘salvation,’ and ‘Saviour,’ are all threadbare words. Let us try to grasp the whole throbbing meaning that is in them. Well, to begin with, and in its original and lowest application, this whole set of expressions is applied to physical danger from which it delivers, and physical disease which it heals. So, in the Gospels, for instance, you find ‘Thy faith hath made thee whole’-literally, ‘saved thee’ And you hear one of the Apostles crying, in an excess of terror and collapse of faith, ‘Save! Master! we perish!’ The two notions that are conveyed in our familiar expression ‘safe and sound,’ both lie in the word-deliverance from danger, and healing of disease.

    Then, when you lift it up into the loftier region, into which Christianity buoyed it up, the same double meaning attaches to it. The Christian salvation is, on its negative side, a deliverance from something impending-peril-and a healing of something infecting us-the sickness of sin.

    It is a deliverance; what from? Take, in the briefest possible language, three sayings of Scripture to answer that question-what am I to be saved from? ‘His name shall be called Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.’ He ‘delivers’-or saves-’us from the wrath to come.’ He ‘saves a soul from death.’ Sin, wrath death, death spiritual as well as physical, these are the dangers which lie in wait; and the enemies which have laid their grip upon us. And from these, as the shepherd drags the kid from the claws of the lion or the bear’s hug, the salvation of the Gospel wrenches and rescues men.

    The same general conceptions emerge, if we notice, on the other side-what are the things which the New Testament sets forth as the opposites of its salvation? Take, again, a brief reference to Scripture words: ‘The Son of Man came not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.’ So the antithesis is between judgment or condemnation on the one hand, and salvation on the other. That suggests thoughts substantially identical with the preceding but still more solemn, as bringing in the prospect a tribunal and a judge. The Gospel then reveals the Mighty Power that lifts itself between us and judgment, the Mighty Power that intervenes to prevent absolute destruction, the Power which saves from sin, from wrath, from death.

    Along with them we may take the other thought, that salvation, as the New Testament understands it, is not only the rescue and deliverance of a man from evils conceived to lie round about him, and to threaten his being from without, but that it is his healing from evils which have so wrought themselves into his very being, and infected his whole nature, as that the emblem for them is a sickness unto death for the healing from which this mighty Physician comes. These are the negative sides of this great Christian thought.

    But the New Testament salvation is more than a shelter, more than an escape. It not only trammels up evil possibilities, and prevents them from falling upon men’s heads, but it introduces all good. It not only strips off the poisoned robe, but it invests with a royal garb. It is not only negatively the withdrawal from the power, and the setting above the reach, of all evil, in the widest sense of that word, physical and moral, but it is the endowment with every good, in the widest sense of that word, physical and moral, which man is capable of receiving, or God has wealth to bestow. And this positive significance of the Christian salvation, which includes not only pardon, and favour, and purity, and blessedness here in germ, and sure and certain hope of an overwhelming glory hereafter-this is all suggested to us by the fact that in Scripture, more than once, to ‘have everlasting life,’ and to ‘enter into the Kingdom of God,’ are employed as equivalent and alternative expressions for being saved with the salvation of God.

    And that leads me to another point-my text, as those of you who have used the Revised Version will observe, is there slightly modified in translation, and reads ‘Ye have been saved,’-a past act, done once, and with abiding present consequences, which are realised progressively in the Christian life, and reach forward into infinitude. So the Scripture sometimes speaks of salvation as past, ‘He saved us by His mercy’: sometimes of it as present and progressive, ‘The Lord added to the Church daily those that were {in process of} being saved’: sometimes of it as future, ‘now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.’ In that future all that is involved in the word will be evolved from it in blessed experience onwards through eternity.

    I have said that we should try to make an effort to fathom the depth of meaning in this and other familiar commonplace terms of Scripture. But no effort prior to experience will ever fathom it. There was in the papers some time ago an account of some extraordinary deep-sea soundings that have been made away down in the South Pacific, 29,400 feet and no bottom, and the wire broke. The highest peak of the Himalayas might be put into that abyss, and there would be hundreds of feet between it and the surface. He ‘casts all our sins,’ mountainous as they are, behind His back ‘into the depths of the sea’; and no plummet that man can drop will ever reach its profound abyss. ‘Thy judgments are a great deep,’ and deeper than the judgments is the depth of Thy salvation.

    And now, brethren, before I go further, notice the-I was going to say theory, but that is a cold word-the facts of man’s condition and need that underlie this great Christian term of salvation-viz. we are all in deadly peril; we are all sick of a fatal disease. ‘Ah!’ you say, ‘that is Paul.’ Yes! it is Paul. But it is not Paul only; it is Paul’s Master, and, I hope, your Master; for He not only spoke loving, gentle words to and about men, and not only was grace poured into His lips, but there is another side to His utterances. No one ever spoke sadder, sterner words about the real condition of men than Jesus Christ did. Lost sheep, lost coins, prodigal sons, builders of houses on the sand that are destined to be blown down and flooded away, men in danger of an undying worm and unquenchable fire-these are parts of Christ’s representations of the condition of humanity, and these are the conceptions that underlie this great thought of salvation as being man’s deepest need.

    It goes far deeper down than any of the superficial constructions of what humanity requires, which are found among non-Christian, social and economical, and intellectual and political reformers. It includes all that is true in the estimate of any of these people, and it supplies all that they aim at. But it goes far beyond them. And as they stand pottering round the patient, and administering-what shall I say? ‘pills for the earthquake,’ as we once heard-it comes and brushes them aside and says, ‘Physicians of no value! here is the thing that is wanted-salvation that comes from God.’

    Brother! it is what you need. Do not be led away by the notion that wealth, or culture, or anything less than Christ’s gift to men will meet your necessities. If once we catch a glimpse of what we really are, there will be no words wanted to enforce the priceless value of the salvation that the Gospel offers. It is sure to be an uninteresting word and thing to a man who does not feel himself to be a sinner. It is sure to be of perennial worth to a man who does. Life-belts lie unnoticed on the cabin-shelf above the berth as long as the sun is bright, and the sea calm, and everything goes well; but when the ship gets on the rocks the passengers fight to get them. If you know yourself, you will know that salvation is what you need.

    II. Here we have the Christian unfolding of the source of salvation.

    ‘By grace ye have been saved.’ There is another threadbare word. It is employed in the New Testament with a very considerable width of signification, which we do not need to attend to here. But, in regard of the present context, let me just point out that the main idea conveyed by the word is that of favour, or lovingkindness, or goodwill, especially when directed to inferiors, and most eminently when given to those who do not deserve it, but deserve its opposite. ‘Grace’ is love that stoops and that requites, not according to desert, but bestows upon those who deserve nothing of the kind; so when the Apostle declares that the source of salvation is ‘grace.’ he declares two things. One is that the fountain of all our deliverance from sin, and of our healing of our sicknesses, lies in the deep heart of God, from which it wells up undrawn, unmotived, uncaused by anything except His own infinite lovingkindness. People have often presented the New Testament teaching about salvation as if it implied that God’s love was brought to man because Jesus Christ died, and turned the divine affections. That is not New Testament teaching. Christ’s death is not the cause of God’s love, but God’s love is the cause of Christ’s death. ‘God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.’

    When we hear in the Old Testament, ‘I am that I am,’ we may apply it to this great subject. For that declaration of the very inmost essence of the divine nature is not merely the declaration, in half metaphysical terms, of a self-substituting, self-determining Being, high above limitation and time and change, but it is a declaration that when He loves He loves freely and unmodified save by the constraint of His own Being. Just as the light, because it is light and must radiate, falls upon dunghills and diamonds, upon black rocks and white snow, upon ice-peaks and fertile fields, so the great fountain of the Divine Grace pours out upon men by reason only of its own continual tendency to communicate its own fulness and blessedness.

    There follows from that the other thought, on which the Apostle mainly dwells in our context, that the salvation which we need, and may have, is not won by desert, but is given as a gift. Mark the last words of my text-’that not of yourselves it is the gift of God.’ They have often been misunderstood, as if they referred to the faith which is mentioned just before. But that is a plain misconception of the Apostle’s meaning, and is contradicted by the whole context. It is not faith that is the gift of God, but it is salvation by grace. That is plain if you will read on to the next verse. ‘By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast.’ What is it that is ‘not of works’? Faith? certainly not. Nobody would ever have thought it worth while to say, ‘faith is not of works,’ because nobody would have said that it was. The two clauses necessarily refer to the same thing, and if the latter of them must refer to salvation by grace, so must the former. Thus, the Apostle’s meaning is that we get salvation, not because we work for it but because God gives it as a free gift, for which we have nothing to render, and which we can never deserve.

    Now, I am sure that there are some of you who are saying to yourselves, ‘This is that old, threadbare, commonplace preaching again!’ Well! shame on us preachers if we have made a living Gospel into a dead theology. And shame no less on you hearers if by you the words that should be good news that would make the tongue of the dumb sing, and the lame man leap as a hart, have been petrified and fossilised into a mere dogma.

    I know far better than you do how absolutely inadequate all my words are, but I want to bring it to you and to lay it not on your heads only but on your hearts, as the good news that we all need, that we have not to buy, that we have not to work to get salvation, but that having got it we have to work thereafter. ‘What shall we do that we might work the works of God?’ A whole series of diverse, long, protracted, painful toils? Christ swept away the question by striking out the ‘s’ at the end of the word, and answered, ‘This is the work’ {not ‘works’} ‘of God,’ the one thing which will open out into all heroism and practical obedience, ‘that ye believe on Him to whom He hath sent.’

    III. That leads me to the last point-viz. the Christian requirement of the condition of salvation.

    Note the precision of the Apostle’s prepositions: ‘Ye have been saved by grace’; there is the source-’Ye have been saved by grace, through faith’-there is the medium, the instrument, or, if I may so say, the channel; or, to put it into other words, the condition by which the salvation which has its source in the deep heart of God pours its waters into my empty heart. ‘Through faith,’ another threadbare word, which, withal, has been dreadfully darkened by many comments, and has unfortunately been so represented as that people fancy it is some kind of special attitude of mind and heart, which is only brought to bear in reference to Christ’s Gospel. It is a thousand pities, one sometimes thinks, that the word was not translated ‘trust’ instead of ‘faith,’ and then we should have understood that it was not a theological virtue at all, but just the common thing that we all know so well, which is the cement of human society and the blessedness of human affection, and which only needs to be lifted, as a plant that had been running along the ground, and had its tendrils bruised and its fruit marred might be lifted, and twined round the pillar of God’s throne, in order to grow up and bear fruit that shall be found after many days unto praise, and honour, and glory.

    Trust; that is the condition. The salvation rises from the heart of God. You cannot touch the stream at its source, but you can tap it away down in its flow. What do you want machinery and pumps for? Put a yard of wooden pipe into the river, and your house will have all the water it needs.

    So, dear brethren, here is the condition-it is a condition only, for there is no virtue in the act of trust, but only in that with which we are brought into living union when we do trust. When salvation comes, into my heart by faith it is not my faith but God’s grace that puts salvation there.

    Faith is only the condition, ay! but it is the indispensable condition. How many ways are there of getting possession of a gift? One only, I should suppose, and that is, to put out a hand and take it. If salvation is by grace it must be ‘through faith.’ If you will not accept you cannot have. That is the plain meaning of what theologians call justification by faith; that pardon is given on condition of taking it. If you do not take it you cannot have it. And so this is the upshot of the whole-trust, and you have.

    Oh, dear friends! open your eyes to see your dangers. Let your conscience tell you of your sickness. Do not try to deliver, or to heal yourselves. Self-reliance and self-help are very good things, but they leave their limitations, and they have no place here. ‘Every man his own Redeemer’ will not work. You can no more extricate yourself from the toils of sin than a man can release himself from the folds of a python. You can no more climb to heaven by your own effort than you can build a railway to the moon. You must sue in forma pauperis, and be content to accept as a boon an unmerited place in your Father’s heart, an undeserved seat at His bountiful table, an unearned share in His wealth, from the hands of your Elder Brother, in whom is all His grace, and who gives salvation to every sinner if he will trust Him. ‘By grace have ye been saved through faith.’

    from Ephesians 2 MacLaren Expositions Of Holy Scripture
  2. It's a shame so many doctrines have been built on that one single verse.

    Some of them are great... some of them... not so much.
    For every verse about "faith alone" or "grace alone" (neither phrase is in the Bible anywhere).
    There are others that say we are required to do some things.

    Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
    Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
    Jas 2:22; You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

    Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    Jas 2:26; For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
    Dave M likes this.
  3. what is the relationship between grace and our responsibility?

    What is the relationship between grace and our obedience?

    Why are some worthy of the Resurrection and some not?

    Luke 20:35
    but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage,

    to me it is clear in the bible we simply are not good enough to obtain salvation so God grants us grace. Yet it is also clear we have a responsibility and that is somehow tied into grace. how do you become worthy?? I would think by being obedient, by seeking God.

    Will God grant grace to people who reject him?? I do not think so, but if its grace God can do as he pleases with it and grant it to ever he wants I would imagine??
    Joefizz likes this.
  4. At the risk of hi-jacking this thread... I apologize in advance.

    Matt 10:37; "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

    Matt 10:38; "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

    Matt 22:8; "Then he *said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.

    It seems some of the things we do (or don't do) can be considered... "worthy".

    Php 1:27; Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

    Col 1:10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
    1 Thes 2:12 so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
    2 Thes 1:5 This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

    Rev 3:4; 'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
    Dave M likes this.
  5. so if we cant earn our salvation and I do understand we can not,

    what is we are worthy of?? according to the scripture BAC and I listed it seems we must be worthy of Jesus some are and some are not so how is that in relationship to salvation.

    Matt 10:37; "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

    Matt 10:38; "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

    Matt 22:8; "Then he *said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.

    It seems some of the things we do (or don't do) can be considered... "worthy".

    Php 1:27; Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

    Col 1:10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
    1 Thes 2:12 so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
    2 Thes 1:5 This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

    Rev 3:4; 'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
  6. so a little digging I found what I was looking for I believe, would love to her what you guys think. I hope this is staying on topic to Mr Bears post.

    Seems what I am referring to is called "Lordship salvation" What is lordship salvation?
    Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.

    Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

    I do not believe I have ever herd the term used here on JT I do recall it being used a lot in another forum I belonged to and they were strongly opposed to it.
  7. A term I don't hear much anymore. But I do agree with it.
    The thing about this is.... obedience isn't a "work". But obedience is required.
    If you don't obey... He isn't really really your Lord.

    Luke 6:46; "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

    The other thought here is... there is a "before" and and "after".
    Before you are saved...You can't do anything to get saved initially.

    After you are saved... There are certain things (obedience) that are required.
    Dave M likes this.
  8. #8 Br. Bear, May 28, 2018
    Last edited: May 28, 2018

    seems like hijackers still exist! Does that equate to terrrorrrism? Or perhaps merely tourism?
    All jokes aside,
    Dave and B-A-C and any others worthy to step up and consider,

    Let us look at all this from a place our tiny little minds can appreciate it.

    Before I continue, B-A-C , the overall message in the sermon provided was for seeing more what the gift is. It has been debated by scholarly men for donkeys years, so us as worthy as we might be can only borrow from their dedicated lives in books and learning and from there discuss and come together around the table of fellowship and see if we might glean some of the wonders about our Lord and Saviour that we might be encouraged and so together build one another up with joy in believing.

    Now, regarding one's worthiness. Good point Dave.
    My advice which we shall not go into here is that you completely ignore the whole Lordship Salvation nonsense and let us press on with that which we know has but one label and that is our Lord Jesus Christ has died for the sins of the world and all are invited to dinner. And so, the Scripture before us,
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:8

    It is hard to write the following and keep it in the place I would like to but I shall try.
    (this because what I am about to write is in fact the reality but I'm trying to bring it down to a level of more personal understanding for us all)

    If I owned many acres and had much in stock and machinery with many workers and plenty of capital (money etc) to do as i pleased with....
    no, if I were to be buying, as in purchasing, many acres etc...
    and I wanted to... as in wanted to, offer it to my enemies, as in those who had been always at odds with me and of those, any who were willing to acknowledge that I was the rightful owner and that they had no right to claim in the purchased possession and you, sir, were of such mind as to accept my gracious offer which entailed the keeping of my affairs, all property and workers etc included...
    and another chap named B-A-C also willingly accepted my offer, along with many others...

    I let you know that I was to be away for some time and while I would be returning I was not yet able to give you an exact date...

    and before i left I commissioned you with all that you needs to be doing in order to keep the purchased lands etc and did so in such a way that through gratefulness (at the time, anyway) you entered into what might be seen as an ownership position along with me, with all the privileges and power that a full owner would have...

    how would you go about doing this?

    would it be worthy or would it not?
    Would you keep it as is, or perhaps you would live a life of frolic and waste it all away... or perhaps you might increase my affairs so that when I returned I should be glad?

    Knowing my kindness and appreciating my goodness and provision to you and understanding that it was completely without any warrant upon yourself that you were blessed with such riches to enjoy and work with, what sort of lifestyle or what sort of attitude, or what sort of similar principals of kindness and forgiveness and love... or what sort of real interest in my welfare as the owner and lord of it all (yourself included) would you continue to live and breathe and do all that was not only in your hands to do but was honoring the grace i bestowed upon you in the first place?

    How many might become unworthy as they saw the ease with which they could forget my grace and how many might defile my name by their actions and treatment of other workers and neighbors and how many might completely forget about what they had accepted and spend their lives on video games or out chasing women and cars, etc? Would some make use of my treasure and take some to invest in a little (or preferably big) something for themselves as if all was not already provided for them?

    But most importantly of all, how would you and for how long and even against the odds that always go door knocking in this life, how long would you remember and consider my grace and live your life accordingly?

    When I return... how will I find things? Who, do you think I would be happy with and what of those who had trashed my affairs and my name? How much would you expect me to laugh about it and say well done?
    Would I be in my right to turf out the offending ones who had not been worthy? And reward those who had been?

    Our Salvation has been purchased for us. No works.
    Will we walk worthy of that in all we do or.... not?

    Over and again we read of the sifting, the dividing, the judgment etc that is coming, beginning with the house of God. And that is fair, that it should begin there. Do we marvel at this? Should we be taken by surprise?
    If we are looking in fearful expectation then we obviously have something to be ashamed of and frighted about. If we hold onto the hope that we have in Christ and walk worthy of His calling, we have nothing to fear but we still remember His kiss, His promise, His touch, His love.

    Many are called....
    as you know, many are called but few, I repeat, few, are chosen.

    The Salvation of God in Jesus Christ the Lord (Jesus being interpreted also as such) stand sure and will never change. We will never add to it. We can however live in fidelity to the love that has been given to us. or the other option is adultery.

    When He comes to get His Bride, do you really expect that He wants any but those who have kept themselves pure in waiting? It is fairly clear that those who did not make it to the wedding of the ten virgins, did so at their own doing, and the Lord and Bridegroom did not have to make any decisions. They were not ready. It is and was a case of if I don't make it to the bus on time it leaves without me. simple. The driver has not chosen to leave me behind. I did not put priority and emphasis on the fact. That being that if i am not obeying the rules of the time I don't get on board.
    When the door closed in Noah's time, only those who had their hearts set in a worthy attitude to be partakers by grace, were on board the Ark; A better Ark is being prepared right now.
    Those who are worthy will be in it. They can not earn their way to it nor buy tickets. All are welcome to come but from what we read in Scripture, most will neglect and being worthy will not appeal to them.
    They will live and walk accordingly.... and perish without the Salvation that otherwise was theirs.

    At the end of the day, we have eternity to spend... what sort of language should we speak now and what sort of people should we be? Can you imagine heaven full of unworthy attitude and manners? Not all that enticing if you ask me, it is enough, the day we have and the evil in it.

    going back to the sermon, if we look at the structure of the verse in Greek, we can not really fit the idea that the gift is faith nor that the gift is indeed either grace but it is the Salvation which is the gift which is ours by grace though faith.
    If you will not believe that God is Who He is and that Grace comes from Him to us-ward so much so (For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life) that life might be ours then you reject the gift offered in full to you.
    What a gift our Salvation is! It is hard to believe but it's true!!!

    If you accept it and then trash* it.... what do you think?

    please excuse my feeble attempt to write all this.

    Bless you ....><>

    [ *trash: not only rubbish it, but to vandalize or abuse and spoil it like it has no worth]

    ps.. I forgot to mention that each was was also assigned a personal aide who would be with you always to gently remind you and encourage you; to remind you of the grace and love that has been given to you, to strengthen you and help you keep your resolve, and would never interfere with anything you did but would nonetheless be there for you as an added bonus... in other words, I would not leave you comfortless, so to speak.
  9. For me salvation and being "Born Again", are the same thing or at least occur at the same time. They are also a gift of God and not of our doing or work.
    After this salvation can you quote scripture on what "certain things" are:
    1. Required?
    2. and if you don't do them what is the result?
  10. And let the beauty of the LORD our God be upon us: and establish Thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish Thou it. Psalm 90:17

    Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, even our Father, Which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. 2Thessalonians 2:16-17
  11. Rom 2:13; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
    Jas 1:22; But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

    1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in God, and God in him. We know by this that Jesus abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

    According to the verse above.. if you don't keep the commandments... You don't abide in Him.
    In fact it says... "this is how we know" He abides in us.
    Rom 8:1; only applies to those who are "in Christ". If you're not abiding in Christ, you're in trouble.
    Dave M likes this.
  12. Greetings,
    does that mean we can not get God to see things our way or go by our reasoning and rules? Surely we can lower the standard to our standard and He will still accept us?

    or did you mean what you said?

    Bless you ....><>
  13. I'm not sure what you're saying here? God is God. We don't make the rules... He does.

    Joefizz and Dave M like this.
  14. Greetings,

    Surely He didn't shout it?

    Bless you ....><>
    Christ4Ever likes this.
  15. How do we know he didn't?
    Joefizz, Dave M and Brad Huber like this.

  16. I didn't capitalize that verse. The NASB (and some other Bibles) Capitalize any quote from the old testament. ( in this case Exod 33:19; )
    Kind of handy because you know immediately it's a OT quote. Perhaps there is another way they could've done this, but red letters, parenthesis, and italics were already taken :)
  17. Curious if an OT quote, why they didn't go along with the capitalization that they themselves used there? Hummmm....I guess when God speaks, even His whispers are loud and clear. :)
  18. thank you for explaining that to me, B-A-C

    the joys of modern tech!

    Bless you ....><>
  19. @B-A-C

    Apologies Brother! Just read Brother Bears reply to you and did a little research.
    Too quick on the draw. Could have just deleted the post, but apology when needed especially to a Brother in Christ, shouldn't be a heart ache, but a joy. Sorry for the above reply. Who said an old dog can't learn new tricks :)

    I still like my "I guess when God speaks, even His whispers are loud and clear." though not to your capitalization. ;)

    With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
    B-A-C likes this.
  20. I'd say that's very "accurate" we don't "deserve" salvation but through Jesus and God's grace we are allowed to accept it through accepting Jesus and his works,sincerely and humbling.

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