• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 13,000 members today

    Register Log In

saiah 59: 20-21: the Deliverer shall come for Sion's sake

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Starting From Isaiah 59: 20-21: the Deliverer shall come for Sion's sake

"And the deliverer shall come for Sion's sake, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this shall be my covenant with them, said the Lord; My Spirit which is upon thee, and the words which I have put in thy mouth, shall never fail from thy mouth, nor from the mouth of thy seed, for the Lord has spoken it, henceforth and for ever." English translation of Septuagint for Isaiah 59: 20-21.

"And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever. " King James English translation of the Masoretic Hebrew text for Isaiah 59: 20-21.

Paul's quote of Isaiah 59: 20 in Romans 11: 26-27: "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Paul's quote of Isaiah 59: 20-21 is closer to the Septuagint wording than to the Masoretic.

Isaiah 59: 20 is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus Christ, who is said to come for the sake of Sion. Romans 11: 26 says the Deliverer shall come out of Sion. Jesus Christ the Deliverer, or the Redeemer, will take away ungodliness from Jacob, that is, from Israel, will establish a New Covenant with Israel, to replace the Old Covenant, and will take away their sins.

Who is "their" in Romans 11: 26, where it says the Deliverer will take away "their" sins? It is first of all the remnant of Israel, which is the remnant of Old Covenant Israel, seen in Romans 11: 1-5. This is the remnant which accepted Christ, and it is this remnant which fulfilled Christ's mission to redeem the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15: 24). The remnant if Old Covenant Israel which accepted Christ also fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies in II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29:16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6, that God was to turn Israel upside down, or transform it.

And - "their" in Romans 11: 26 is also those not of the bloodline of Old Covenant Israel. The prophecy of Hosea 2: 23 says that "I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." Hosea 2: 23 was beginning to be fulfilled in Acts 10 when God called peter to preach the Gospel to the non-Jews, represented by Cornelius and his people.

The prophecy of Isaiah 59: 20-21 says Jesus Christ will come to Sion, and will come out of Sion, to take away the ungodliness of a remnant of Old Covenant Israel and those not of Old Covenant Israel who accept him. This prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century when Paul wrote Romans 11. Old Covenant Israel was lost - "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel - and Christ came to bring spiritual life in himself to lost physical Israel, and also to those not of Old Covenant Israel who accepted him.

II Thessalonians 2: 3-7, Matthew 24: 5, 11, II Peter 2: 1-3, II Timothy 3: 5, 7-8 and Revelation 9: 15-19 in heavily metaphoric language are all prophecies of a falling away from the truth by the multitude of those claiming to be Christians.

So, there are prophecies of a falling away into the damnable heresies of II Peter 2: 1, where those claiming to be Christians speak evil of the way of truth (II Peter 2: 2), and in II Timothy 3: 7-8 they are not able to come to the knowledge of the truth and they resist the truth.

"Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." I Corinthians 10: 11

Christ's coming out of Sion - in the flesh - and to Sion as fully God to save a remnant of Old Covenant Israel of the flesh and those not formerly of Old Covenant Israel (Hosea 2: 23) is an example for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. We do not know how close we are in 2015 to the end of the age, but the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-7 is one indicator we are near it.

The falling away of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel from the truth is repeated in the falling away of New Covenant Israel.

But God always keeps a remnant in times of falling away. "Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal..." I Kings 19: 18

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Revelation 14: 1

Revelation 14: 1 is not about the resurrection event in I Corinthians 15: 51-53, or I Thessalonians 4: 14-17. The Lamb standing on mount Sion with the 144,000, the remnant who have his testimony (Revelation 12: 17), at that time, is metaphoric, not literal. It is a picture of Christ being
with,and his Spirit inside,the remnant. Revelation 14: 4 says the 144,000 follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth, meaning not that they literally follow a risen Christ around, but that they follow whatever doctrine he has given in his Word of spiritual life.

In following Christ's words of spiritual life, the remnant, the 144,00, lead a remnant out of the false doctrines they are in. This happens toward the end of the age.. Joel 3:14-15 says "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15.The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining." The multitude - those who claim to be Christians but are in false doctrines - are seen here in Joel 3: 14-15 where they make a decision to follow the truth or remain in false doctrines and practices. The reference to the sun and moon being darkened and the stars not shining is an indication that this happens toward the end of the age - during what Matthew 24: 21, 29-30 calls the tribulation.

<ins id="aswift_1_expand" style="display:inline-table;border:none;height:250px;margin:0;padding:0;position:relative;visibility:visible;width:300px;background-color:transparent"><ins id="aswift_1_anchor" style="display:block;border:none;height:250px;margin:0;padding:0;position:relative;visibility:visible;width:300px;background-color:transparent"></ins></ins>
[TABLE="class: tborder, align: center"]
[TD="class: alt1"]"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11. For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Isaiah 28: 9-13

We are to take scriptures from several verses and chapters in the Bible and put them together to be raised up into a fuller understanding of the things of God and of the Spirit. And as Isaiah 28: 9 says "...to whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts." The writer of Hebrews uses this metaphor of being at the spiritual level of understanding only milk, in contrast the a higher understanding which is the meat level.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." I Corinthians 13: 11

"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14.But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrews 5: 12-13

Hebrews 5: 12-14 is not easy to understand - milk and meat are used here as metaphors. But you can tell from what is said in these three verses of Hebrews that those who use only milk are unskilled in the word of God but strong meat belongs to those that are of full age who discern good and evil.

But those of what can be called the II Timothy 3: 2, 5, 7-8 church are "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

When teaching scripture the II Timothy 3 churches tend to isolate one text, or even one verse or part of a verse, from other scriptures, and then make use of the doctrines of a tradition of man to interpret that isolated text, verse or part of a verse. This is done in Romans 11: 26, to make it a proof text to show that all in Old Covenant Israel of the flesh are to be saved at some time in the future. This is not following Isaiah 28: 9-13, on adding together texts "line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little." Some scriptures other than Romans 11: 26, when understood in relation to Romans 11: 26, show that Paul cannot be talking about saving all in Old Covenant Israel of the flesh in the future, but is saying there that all who are of the elect, are saved, are of Israel, and therefore all Israel will be saved.

And - those who are not weaned from the "milk" and cannot understand "strong meat" are more easily deceived into accepting this isolation of key scriptures one from another and then applying the doctrines of a tradition of men to say what the meaning is of the isolated text. Those caught up in the popular tradition of men do this all the time to promote and defend their false doctrines.

[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD="class: alt1, align: right"]

Similar threads