• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Restraining the Antichrist

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Active
Restraining the Antichrist

During the times of the early Church there were many false teachers who looked like real Christians living among the children of God. Their purpose was to deceive the Church into believing something false. Most of these false brothers were self deceived, so what they taught they really believed to be true. This is how Satan works by blinding the mind, and the heart of the unregenerate man so that the light of the Gospel would not shine on them.

Paul the Apostle wrote first, and second Thessalonians to correct some false teaching that had been spread through out the Church. There was a false teacher(s) who wrote letter(s) to the Church(s) telling them something to the effect that they had missed the rapture, and that the second coming of Christ was about to happen. They even forged the Apostle Paul's name on these letters saying that it came from Paul. Obviously, this upset many in the Church, because this was completely opposite to what Paul had taught them earlier.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 THAT YE BE NOT SOON SHAKEN IN MIND, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, NOR BY LETTER AS FROM US, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul again tells the Church that the second coming of Jesus Christ (not the rapture) will not happen until a couple things happen first.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;

It is very interesting that the word for, “FALLING AWAY” is the Greek word, “APOSTASIA” which means, “DEPARTURE, TO DEPART”. There must be a “DEPARTURE” first, and then the man of sin be revealed. In other words the man of sin can not be revealed until there is a departure first!! Some people believe that the departure would be some in the Church departing from the faith. Well, that has been going on since the beginning of Christianity, that's nothing new. Many, many people who have not kept the Word of God in themselves who go to Church will always fall away eventually. Jesus tells us this in the parable of the “sower”.

In the Amplified bible, in its foot notes, it says the word “FALLING AWAY” means “THE DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH!! Of course, there will for sure be a DEPARTURE of a certain group of people from another group of people, so that what happens to one group of people, will not happen to the other!!!
:smile: This is why Jesus told his followers to “watch, and pray that you may be counted worthy to escape those things that will come upon the earth”(Luke 21:36)

The tribulation period can not even begin to start, until the Antichrist is revealed, and that can not happen until the Church has left the building!!! If we don't believe verse 3 as the departure of the Church, don't worry, because the Apostle Paul tells us the exact same thing a couple verses later.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)

There is a “POWER” that is “RESTRAINING” this man of sin (Antichrist) from being revealed in his time. Who could this person be who is “RESTRAINING” the wicked one from being revealed? It is the exact same people who have already departed the earth, who alone had that power over all the works of the evil one!!!
Jesus Christ himself gave his Church that “AUTHORITY” in his “NAME” to have dominion over all the works of the devil including the devil himself!!! (Luke 10:19) The “POWER” that backed up that
“AUTHORITY” was the Holy Spirit, and he too was given unto the Church!! (Acts 1:8)

Someone might say, “it will the Holy Ghost (Spirit) who will be taken away, so the Antichrist can be revealed”
There is only one small problem with that kind of thinking. Jesus said when the Holy Ghost (Spirit) comes he will abide with be us forever!!

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER;

John 14:26 BUT THE COMFORTER, WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If the Holy Spirit goes, so does the Church!!!
:smile:

The body of Christ, which is the Church, is the only thing restraining, and holding back the Antichrist from being revealed to this world. Once the Church is gone (raptured, taken out of the way) the Antichrist will be revealed, and all hell is going to break out on planet earth. May God have mercy on all those who remain!!
 
Loyal
One problem with this is those who get saved during the tribulation.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

How do they get saved if there is no Holy Spirit?
 
Active
One problem with this is those who get saved during the tribulation.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

How do they get saved if there is no Holy Spirit?
I don't believe the Holy Spirit is going to leave this earth at the rapture, I said "there" are those who think this to be true, but I don't
 
Active
There will be for sure many who will NOT be taken up in the rapture. but that does not mean salvation is forever lost for them They will have to die for what they believe, and then at Jesus second coming they will be raised up, therefor completing the three phases of the "one" resurrection spoken of in the Bible. (1) Jesus being the "first fruits", and (2) the rapture (the Church) being the "main harvest", and (3) last the "gleaning" of the fields that are left over. (tribulation saints)
 
Loyal
what about forgiveness for those who take the mark of the beast can they still be saved??
 
Loyal
The "mark" of the beast. A much debated topic.

Rev 13:16; And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17; and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18; Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

To answer your question, I don't believe those who receive the mark can ever be forgiven.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev 16:1; Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
Rev 16:2; So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.

Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21; And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
 
Active
There will many who will refuse the "mark of the beast", but they will have to die to be saved.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
Loyal
seems pretty straight forward they aint getting saved , thanks for the study on that BAC and curtis.
 
Active
Hmm ok.

I was just wondering wasnt it antipas or nero who was set up in the temple as God, and then that was destroyed in 70 AD at His coming, where do the 144000 fit into all of this, they are the firstruits arent they and then anyone who dies in the Lord from then on is in the second resurrection.

Or is this too confusing?
 
Active
Sorry the american rapture theory that does the rounds in christian circles really messes with peoples heads.
People forget that when Jesus revealed to John all that was going on, he was revealing how heaven was obtained after the earthly temple was destroyed.

Theres no 'gap' of thousands of years to mean Jesus will come again another time and only save rhose living in the 21st century. Remember thessalonians was written before 70ad. Also the gathering of the elect, is explained in revelation. The last trumpet...well there are now no more trumpets as there is no more temple.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Active
The last trumpet...well there are now no more trumpets as there is no more temple.
The Bible is filled with stories of people, and priests blowing trumpets. Trumpets were used as a signal for the start or end of certain traditions. In the Book of Revelations seven angels blow seven trumpets to signify certain times in which God would pour out his wrath upon the earth, and its inhabitants. A trumpet will also be used to signal the beginning of Christ's millennium Kingdom here on earth.

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh ANGEL BLEW HIS TRUMPET, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever."

Men blow trumpets, angels blow trumpets, priests blow trumpets, and also God himself has a trumpet.
God's trumpet is not a musical horn, or instrument at all, it is his actual voice. When the Apostle John heard Jesus's voice in the book of Revelations he said it sounded like a trumpet....

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me A GREAT VOICE, AS OF A TRUMPET,

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I HEARD WAS AS IT WERE OF A TRUMPET talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Jesus raised up Lazarus from the dead with the sound of his voice!! (John 11:43)

There is day coming in which all the dead in Christ will hear this same voice, and be raised from the dead, and all those who are still alive in Christ will be caught up in the air to be forever with the Lord!!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus is NOT a archangel, but he is the “HEAD” of ALL principalities, and powers. The word “archangel” refers a person who is “chief, first, and also its means a messenger” Jesus is known as the “Angel of the Lord” or simply “the messenger of God” There will NOT be “trumpet” as a horn that will raise the dead, it will be the voice of Jesus Christ himself. Jesus even tells us this.....

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE,
John 5:29 AND SHALL COME FORTH; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The “trump of God” is the “voice of God”!!!

The first time God's voice sounded like a trumpet blast on earth was when God spoke to Moses on mount Sinai.

Exo 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and THE VOICE OF THE TRUMPET EXCEEDING LOUD; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

Exo 19:19 And when the VOICE OF THE TRUMPET SOUNDED LONG, AND WAXED LOUDER and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

Heb 12:25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
Heb 12:26 At that time HIS VOICE SHOOK THE EARTH, but now he has promised, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."

The “LAST TRUMP” will happen at the catching away of the Church when Jesus shouts with the “voice” of a archangel which is the “voice of God”.....Oh happy day!!! :smile:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
Active
Sorry the american rapture theory that does the rounds in christian circles really meases with peoples heads.
It has nothing to do with men's "heads" becoming messed up, as it is with the "heart" that man believes unto righteousness, not with his head. The natural man calls all this all "foolishness", but in reality it is the Wisdom of God in which God ordained from the beginning.
 
Active
People in america have created another theory called the rapture when the bible only talks of the first and second resurrection. I have read enough of this to know only americans believe this, no other christians in other countries believe this that they think they are the special elect people when the bible is not referring to america at all.

The voice of God is what a believer hears when they are called and we respond with our hearts. If you have not heard it yet, what are you waiting for?

Sorry but you guys are quoting bible verses willy nilly and not reading it decently and in order. Also, you are totally ignoring the 144000 from the tribes of Israel that are already inhabiting heaven.

There was actually a feast of trumpets that the israelites celebrated with the trumpets, shofars sounding from the temple. Before it was destroyed, which was the last trump. Remember when .revelation was written. Also remember when the walls of Jericho fell down. At the sound of trumpets. It was both literal and the sound of the voice of God.

Is the physical temple still standing? No.
 
Active
The trumpet sounded first, and then God spoke, and it was as loud as a trumpet. Its not saying Gods voice IS a trumpet, but the isrealites would have known what the sound was because they celebrated the feast of trumpets in Jerusalem every year.
 
Loyal
People in america have created another theory called the rapture when the bible only talks of the first and second resurrection
This is far from only Americans. The word "rapture" isn't in the Bible. However rapture simply means "caught up" or "gathered up".

This is found several places in the Bible.

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3; And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
2 Cor 12:4; was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

In the case of the "rapture" or the "second coming" (which ever you believe depends mostly on the timing).

1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Matt 3:12; His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matt 13:30; Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Matt 24:30; And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

2 Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2 Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
 
Active
Remember at the time of Jesus, everyone of Gods people had to physically go to Jerusalem to celebrate Gods ordained feasts including passover at the temple. Jesus was the lamb who satisfied every element of the passover.

Do we still go to the temple now? No because Jesus made a new convenant and dwells within us, and we celebrate the Lords supper in remembrance. The gospel is now spreading out from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth. Yes the end will come, He will come for us, but you guys confuse the first and second resurrection and insert another thing called a rapture or catching away when there isnt one. Remember the temple was actually physically destoryed, which is why there is no temple now. Only a mount where it used to be.
 
Active
The gathering together has happened at the first resurrection those that die in the Lord now are us gentiles for the second resurrection. The tribes had already been gathered, this is what Jesus revealed to John, before the temple was destroyed. This is why he literally warned people to flee Jersualem because He knew it would be destroyed when the rulers tried to take it over and set themselves up as God, in the temple!
 
Loyal
but you guys confuse the first and second resurrection and insert another thing called a rapture or catching away when there isnt one. Remember the temple was actually physically destoryed, which is why there is no temple now.
All of the scriptures above say there will be a rapture. But you are right, when it happens is another thing. The temple will either be rebuilt
(most believe this, since this is where the beast commits the abomination of desolation Dan 12:1; Matt 24:15; Mark 13:14; ) or else the beast
will have to commit this in the New Jerusalem (very unlikely).
 
Active
Ok i dont know about you but I cannot trace my lineage to any of the twelve tribes of israel. However God has adopted me for the second resurrection can be sure of that when I die.Lol. Bless.
 
Active
All of the scriptures above say there will be a rapture. But you are right, when it happens is another thing. The temple will either be rebuilt
(most believe this, since this is where the beast commits the abomination of desolation Dan 12:1; Matt 24:15; Mark 13:14; ) or else the beast
will have to commit this in the New Jerusalem (very unlikely).
Hmm ok i see you have bought into some sda doctrine there.

The temple is not going to be built again lol. They can try, but Gods not going to inhabit it.
 

Similar threads


Top