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Regarding 1 John 3:9

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by At Peace, Jul 6, 2018.

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  1. "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
    A recent post appeared which seemed to lead folks to the conclusion that Christians CAN commit sin.
    That conclusion comes in spite of the fact that God's seed cannot bear wicked fruit.
    That conclusion repudiates our Lord's parables about fig trees and grape vines not bearing each other's fruit.
    Ever planted a garden?
    Have you ever planted tomatoes and found corn had sprouted from the seeds?
    I don't mean "habitually", but ever? Even once?
    Why is it that some think God's seed will act differently than tomato seeds?
  2. I do have some hybrid fruit trees. More than one fruit grows on the same tree. Certain kinds of branches have been grafted in.

    Almost all of my trees usually have good fruit. Occasionally, just about every one of them has a little bad fruit.
  3. OK, So in your mind, Jesus' parables were hogwash.
    Grape vines CAN bring forth figs...and God's seed CAN bring forth murderers, liars, adulterers, and thieves.
  4. Gal 3:16; Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
    Gal 3:17; What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
  5. How does that address anything previously written?
  6. For the sake of someone reading that and not following the thread....I know I can't collect crabgrass seeds, plant them in my yard, then expect a nice smooth zoysia lawn, and can see how that would relate to the subject verses. I do understand how through genetic manipulation a "bad seed" can yield a better seed, but it isn't likely to reproduce that new kind. Instead, it's more likely to revert to some old attributes left behind in the base pre-existing genome.

    Seed is seed. Natural seed of a good species should be expected to reproduce what some gardeners call "heirloom" seed, such as a prized old type of plant, like my favorite black cherry tomato. Rather than improve our old "seed" that has been corrupted, Christians fall heir to the incorruptible seed of God by his grace though faith. If that has actually happened, then the proof is in the fruit produced.

    Whenever one of those little gems in the garden shows imperfection I remove it. That keeps the seed I save pure. The cost to replace a tomato seed is ten cents each. The cost to pass to to me God's perfect Seed is the blood of Jesus.
    Br. Bear likes this.
  7. Apple and oranges and mixed metaphors...

    Matt 7:16; You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

    Grapes and figs are fruits. Thorns and thistles are not. Fruit comes from fruit trees.

    Maybe we should make sure we are on the same page here.

    Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
    Luke 13:7; And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
    Luke 13:8; And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
    Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

    A man had a fig tree. Who is "the man"? Who/what is the "fig tree"?
    Where was this tree? What is "his vineyard"? Who did it belong to?
    Why was He expecting to find fruit on it for the last three years? Why not before that? Why did he wait so long to give the tree "another chance"?
    Why didn't he cut down the tree immediately?

    What is the "fertilizer" here? Who is fertilizing the tree here?
    Even after it is fertilized... does he it give it time to grow and bear fruit? Or does the fruit appear immediately in one second?
    Why does he give the tree until "next year" (it's already been three years).
    Dave M and Christ4Ever like this.
  8. 1Jn 1:8 IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, and the truth is not in us.

    The first thing scripture reveals within a person is their sinfulness. We are sinners saved by grace, but when truth is reveled inside the heart of man he finds his sinfulness is much worse then what he originally thought! Christians are not “sinless”, but we certainly should sin less!

    The Apostle Paul tells us....

    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

    Rom 7:18 For I KNOW THAT IN ME (THAT IS, IN MY FLESH,) DWELLETH NO GOOD THING: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH:

    The human physical body is so corrupted with sin (in our flesh) it can NOT be fixed, it must be changed. That change will not take place until Jesus returns. As it is written.....

    1Co 15:53 For THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    1Co 15:54 So WHEN THIS CORRUPTIBLE SHALL HAVE PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    We are told.......

    Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Rom 6:12 LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but IF YE THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, YE SHALL LIVE.

    Only by the power of the Holy Spirit can a Christian “mortify the deeds of his body”. Keeping the flesh under does not make sin disappear in the flesh it only prevents sin from controlling that person.

    The scripture that these “sinless” people claim is this.......

    1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN.

    They say, “See Curtis, we can be sinless because the blood of Jesus Christ is cleansing us from ALL sin if we walk in the light!!

    That kind of interpretation of scripture is in major error, because, if we are sinless while walking in the light we would NOT need the blood of Jesus to cleanse from any kind of sin!!

    Light refers to knowledge, and understanding of God. Understanding is Wisdom that comes from God when he reveals himself to any being. “The entrance of his Word gives light”. “In his light we see light”. “God is light”

    Walking in light is walking in your understanding of God himself. This understanding does not happen all at once as it takes time to come into the understanding of God as he teaches us his ways. I walk in God's light according to my understanding he has given unto me. There are areas I do not yet have understanding in.

    I am required from God to walk in what I know now, not in what I am yet to learn in the future. We all sin in areas that we do not yet know, and this is were the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

    Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. FOR UNTO WHOMSOEVER MUCH IS GIVEN, OF HIM SHALL BE MUCH REQUIRED: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    Every single born again Christian is chastise for sins he commits, and does not confess to his Father. God does not chastise us when we do good, only when we sin, and not confess them to him.

    Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

    No Christian is sinless in this life, and if we say we are without sin we have “deceived” our self's, if we ever say we have not sinned we are calling God a liar, and his truth never was in us.

    1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  9. @At Peace

    Do yourself a favor and change your tone when you respond. Don't put words in peoples' mouth and lose the harsh tone. I warned you before and this is your last warning.
    Dave M likes this.
  10. Please insert the word..."God's seed" where you have previously used just "seed".
    God's seed cannot bear devilish fruit.
  11. The seed that gendered the fig tree will never bear anything but figs.
    The same holds true for God's seed.
  12. John is writing to a church, about two different kinds of men.
    Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
    Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
    Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.
    John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing. (Also used by Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh.)
    A applies to those who walk in the light and B applies to those who walk in the darkness.
    Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in the light.
    Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to those who walk in the darkness.
  13. Totally untrue in every way.
    Dave M likes this.
  14. Greetings,

    Perhaps the parable of the Sower is forgotten as part of the equation regarding the seed.

    The seed being the Word of God IS incorruptible.
    However, there are all sorts of worldly attitudes that prevent the seed sown from bearing fruit. The tares grow up amongst the good seed. Plants wither and die having no root. Some seed gets taken even before germination.
    Who are we to know some of these great mysteries?
    One thing I do know, that is we should all be much more grateful if we have survived and are able to put down roots into good ground.
    I have NEVER known in all my thousands to millions of sown seed for even one seed turned plant that sits in judgement over any other seed come plant. The seed is sown to produce a harvest.
    The sower judges the crop.

    Over the years, I have seen countless crops and while walking through a crop, I will be pleased with every plant, it is in seeing the whole crop, in the sunshine that is most pleasing to the eye and gladdens the heart. It is never about only one plant. that is no crop, and we must remember that we are called to One Body and we need to stop thinking selfishly about ourselves being it.

    Another fact is that a seasoned farmer knows what he is looking for. How much more does the Lord Himself know what to look for when He looks over His field?
    Yes, He might see a few straggly ones, and some tares, some briers, some thorns, but He is looking out over eternity and sees the work of His hands bearing that which He has sown.

    Every seed bears the mark of it's progenitor. Always has and always will. If a plant could determine to be faithful to it's lineage it would, but by design it, simply and just, is. It is never anything less or more or this or that. In the same way, every person on the planet is a person and never a camel or a penguin. Never a giraffe nor a whale. All are born of water, coming from the womb (and what a wonderful design we are!!!) but for a man to SEE the Kingdom of God, he MUST be born again..... and that is where God's incorruptible seed is sown.
    to take you all a little bit 'out there', if you consider it, we are made of what? Take away the water and what are we? Dust. Gathered dust, formed by the loving Creator's own Hand, no less. Perfect in every heartbeat and breath, perfect in beauty and complexity, but it is from dust, or dirt, that we are formed.
    Where does any even stupid farmer sow seed? In a river? In the sea? in a box or an urn? Under his house? IN THE GROUND.
    We are the ground, quite literally. it is no silly mistake that this parable was spoken. The wise missed it and still do. Where will the Lord plant His seed? In us.

    Some plant and some water... BUT, it is the LORD alone that giveth the increase.
    A humble man will remember this as he looks at his fields, knowing that all he was able to do was sow his grain and when he sees the first little cotyledons popping out of the earth, he rejoices and continues to do so, even past harvest time.

    It IS the LORD Who gives increase.
    Seed will grow as they were sown to do.
    Some to honour... some to dishonour.

    Get growing and let God be God over your entire life that He may be glad at His coming and say.... come.

    We can try to deny it but that is pointless.
    At the end of the day, you will know them by their fruits. BUT the big thing everyone needs to consider is their own walk, first, then, if they have no log in their eye, they can help another who doesn't see too clearly.

    While 1John 3:9 is perfectly true, it is not a stand alone verse that negates the rest of the Bible.
    Jesus was clear enough about what the Apostle John recounted for the early Church, that we now have after much blood shed for it, in the Bible as we know it. Who is this Lord we all want to talk about? What is His name?
    Is He the God of our imaginations Who threatens and gets the obedience to His commands as so many tend to think He is?
    Can you hear this... you DO IT... Or ELSE, I am going to snot you, get it!!! Like a tyrannical father he gets everyone to do as they are told under fear of the severest punishment if they even blink or if he even gets a hint that any would dare to think about blinking!!! The hardest sar-major ever known!! Out with the rod and whack and whack again. Bemanding obedience .. or else!!

    Or, is it possible that our God is He Who so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son... the Same God Who is steadfast in Love and loving Kindness, wanting people everywhere to come home to Him and find shelter and refuge in His House?
    Do we do a queer genetic modification on the words we read, having been indoctrinated by the world and its ways and fears, it's dog eat dog approach, it's hostility to any who would dare to threaten peace and security of each person's tiny little mind who delights in the comforts of their own self made righteousness of laws and guidelines and limits, so that they can keep all the things that the world has bestowed upon them as faithful to it... and have we made the commandments a hard-line neo-nazi, tyrant that rules with death and threats? Have we evoked some other form of idolatry into the pure and perfect Law?
    A warning on an electrical component is there to keep you safe.
    Don't touch the bare wires... it will kill you. Don't nun on the road, sonny.. you'll get cleaned up by a big rig. Mind your step. Caution, wet floor... get it?

    Which of the 'Ten Commandments' are anything but an expression of love to love with?

    Don't eat the fruit from the tree in the midst of the Garden... you'll die if you do! A threat or a fact?

    But they did, and love was pushed aside for the same selfishness we see here and there and everywhere, today.

    Condemnation is something the Lord does not have to do and He is not in the business of doing so,
    A man is condemned if does not Believe in Him Who sent Me, Jesus says. If you love Me ( I have loved you while you were yet in your trespasses of selfishness, if you love Me, love one another with a pure and perfect attitude of everything within you... with everything you've got.
    I made this world and everything in it with loving care and I keep it with the same care, but you reject My Love, for your selfishness turning My Laws into tyranny to satisfy your evil desires... REPENT

    Come home.. He calls you... come home.
    Why, so He can beat you and make you live in guilt and shame for the rest of your days and make you live under threat of hell? Get a life, men.
    Perhaps He wants us back home because He loves us?

    All we need to do is ask, do I love Him?

    You'll know by your fruits, how much you still want to play the harlot or if you are glad to be safe back Home with your Father.

    Jesus is Lord

    Bless you ....><>

  15. recommend watching/listening at least twice ....><>

    Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. Luke 15:10
  16. Refute it.

    I choose to remain in the light, God, where there is no darkness, sin.
  17. That is the gist of 1 John 3:9.
    God's seed cannot bear unGodly fruit.

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