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Refuting a Preterist

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Major scripture problems for a full Preterist ...I will give scripture, then elaborate a little on that passage.


The seventy sent out...

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.


Twelve disciples sent out...


Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



Answer to the above passages...below.

Till the son of man be come? This is the same as Luk 10:1... Whither he himself would come. Preterist use.. Mat 10:23 as the second coming of Christ

Christ was just telling them he would follow them soon.


Now this one...

Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


Above is their big guns so to speak, Preterist use the above passages of scripture, to say that the kingdom of God will be seen ,or appear, before some of the people Christ is talking to die. Or they refer it to his second coming, which they believe took place in 70AD.


But what about these passages below


Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Or when Jesus says the kingdom of heaven comes not with observation, but is within you.


Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.


Casting out devils, healing the sick, and raising the dead...is one way a man can see the kingdom of God at work or come with power, and Jesus did tell his deciples that they also would do great works, because he would be in them...this is where Preterist get really messed up in there teachings. According to their doctrine, trying to decearn what is a spiritual saying, or a literal saying (by literal i mean has a physical meaning) , is almost impossible to a full Preterist. This is only a taste of whats to come, as Paul says below.

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come.


But what if Jesus was really talking about his coming, literally, in the above passages. Who would see his coming? according to Christ, it would be some that were standing there. Was not his disciples standing there as well, more than likely. So could he be refering to them? Peter, James, and John at the transfiguration seen some things in a vision, did they see more than just Moses and Elijah talking to Christ? According to Peter, he himself appears to be saying he was a witness of the power of Christs coming.


2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.


Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.



Peter seems to be saying he was a witness, not following cunningly devised fables, of his second coming, and the power of it, and made it known to the saints, Nathanael also was told he would see great things, after his introduction to the Lord, that may resemble a second coming of Christ. Angels ascending and decending upon the son of man? when or where did Nathanael see this? So there goes them Preterist big guns, Christ may have shown some of his disciples, his second coming, and the power of it. Hence, explaining why Christ said there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. If this is a literal saying from Christ, of his second coming. Either way, the Preterist doctrine has more holes in it than a fishermans net. One minute they're telling you the second coming of Christ will be seen (ie: the some standing here will see it Mat 16:28...the next minute they're saying the second coming is not going to be seen (ie: the return of Christ in 70AD.





The perfection of the saints


1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is...we will be like him and see him.


1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.


The complete perfection of the saints will only come at the resurrection, when we will no longer see darkly through that glass...but face to face, and see Christ as he is. Full Preterist must make the claim that we are fully perfected, if we are living in the New Jerusalem on the new earth.


Now the resurrection of the body...


Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Full Preterist claim that we are resurrected into spirit form, scripture says otherwise. It will be a spiritual body, but not unseen...it will have "flesh and bones". Notice above... Christ says flesh and bones, and not flesh and blood. Why? Because "flesh and blood" Cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus Christ entered heaven, with a flesh and bones body...and will return the same way.



The two witnesses of Revelation...this small resurrection has nothing to do with The Resurrection of the just.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Their enemies will see them resurrected...



Many old testament saints who were resurrected...also not tied to The Resurrection of the just, that will happen at the second comeing.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Full preterist say that the resurrection of the body, is not a visible one. Tell that to the ones who seen these people, Jesus was also seen..so will the two witnesses of the book of revelation be seen. God will give the saints, new visible immortal bodys...just like the one Jesus Christ has.




Now just a little from the Book of Revelation.


Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The nations of the world will be healed, by the leaves of the tree of life.


Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

No more curse? In the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve were cursed and cast out of the garden of Eden... in the end, this curse will be gone. Again, Preterist who say we are in the New Jerusalem keep this curse on us.


Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

I like this one, they the saints, will see his face! And will have the name of God in their foreheads... Same thing here, Preterist saying we are in the New Jerusalem, take away from the saints their ability to see Jesus Christ.


Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

No night? No need for a light or the sun? Yes the lord will be the light of this place...and the saints will reign for ever and ever.


Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true:

These sayings are faithful and true? Yes the lord said them, when the lord says faithful and true, he means it...


I could go on and on...with the promises of God to his People. But a full Preterist denies the saints, every one of these promises of God Almighty.



Below we see more Promises of God


Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


There was no more sea?...we still have seas, the new heaven and a new earth, will not. This world will also pass away.



The Bride of Christ...

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


God himself shall be with them, and be their God?...yes he certainly will.


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


No more tears, no more death, no more sorrow, no more pain...for the former things are passed away. 1Co 2:9... But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. Preterist that say we are in the New Jerusalem or new earth, take away what God Almighty has not even shown us, or even yet given us.



Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


He that overcometh shall inherit all things...Amen


Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

According to some Preterist, evil will not be fully destroyed or punished in the lake of fire...the above verse says otherwise.



And of coarse we have the warning not to add or take away from the words of the prophecy of this book. Full Preterist ignore this warning, by takeing away the promises of God from the book, by saying all this book is fulfilled already.


Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.



Another Preterist big gun...or should i say, misinterpretation.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The above verse is used by full Preterist to say we are already in the New Jerusalem now...Paul is just talking spiritually, as he says just below in the next chapter, we are still looking for this city. The Fathers house...John 14:2-3. Abraham was also looking for a city, who's builder and maker was God.


Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.




This world and the next...


Luk 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


Saints living in the New Jerusalem or on the new earth now?...not according to the above verse, the saints won't die anymore, or marry, in the new world to come. But will be as the angels of heaven, they will have glorious bodys. This prooves that Christ did not return in 70AD as Preterist claim, because if he had, the saints should be as the angels of heaven , not marrying or given in marriage, because the ressurrection takes place at the second coming of Christ. So, if Christ came in 70AD, and the ressurection took place, why do full Preterist still marry, and die, and do not become as the angels of God in heaven? Makes no sense whatsoever. This would be a good question to ask them.


Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


I make all things new?...these words are true and faithful, Yes they are!


Any doctrine that makes God Almighty, not almighty, is a heresy. God will make a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. Jesus, Paul, Peter and some of the prophets, also said there is a new world to come, and the works of this one, will be burned up.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


So what would Jesus Christ say to a Preterist? Same thing he said to the Sadducees... they do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


God bless
 
Member
"I could go on and on...with the promises of God to his People." So could I ;) Preterist theories are only fit for the pit they came from, right down there with atheism and buddism and any other doctrine of devils that tries to make the God of Heaven and earth less than God! Well done AJ!
 
Member
lol- i did'nt see this yet...are you trying to promote me? You pooh:icon_biggrin: But yes Preterism is a head banging doctrine.
 
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