Rapture

[lotsofquestion]

RAPTURE... This is a concept that puzzles me. What makes people think that the one being left is the evil one? Do some people believe that Christ comes before the tribulations? What if the one taken is the evil one and the one left is to remain when the mellinial rein of Christ begins? I believe there was some christian evangelist who began this line of thinking (rapture.. righteous taken) in the 1800's or so. How do we know he was right?

 

[Chad]

RAPTURE... This is a concept that puzzles me. What makes people think that the one being left is the evil one? Do some people believe that Christ comes before the tribulations? What if the one taken is the evil one and the one left is to remain when the mellinial rein of Christ begins? I believe there was some christian evangelist who began this line of thinking (rapture.. righteous taken) in the 1800's or so. How do we know he was right?

I think that answer is rather simple don't you? Read the Word of GOD and that is how you know what is wrong and what is right, what is false and what is true. Pray for guidance by the Spirit of GOD for discernment.

Here is are a few links on Rapture that has been discussed here a few times:
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-chat/11038-your-view-rapture.html?highlight=rapture
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-chat/10738-rapture-jewish-wedding.html?highlight=rapture

 

[lotsofquestion]

i would like some scripture reference that supports the idea rather than opinion. It would help others as well trying to understand the concept. I believe in the truth where ever I find it.

 

[Chad]

Clearly you did not bother reading the two links carefully. There are 4 pages worth of discussion including ample Scripture. Read and learn if you seek truth. I don't sense sincerity in you at all to be honest because you basically claimed both threads were "opinions" and yet you say you seek truth. If you did seek truth with your heart you would have seen the Scripture in each thread.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Amen Chad. There is plenty of scripture about it and supplied on here for all to read. No further discussion needed. You shall know the truth and the truth you know will set you free.

 

[CrossBow]

Lev 23:10
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

Lev 23:22
And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Understanding the teaching of the resurrection of the dead (Heb. 1:2) begins with the above scriptures. I would be happy to discuss this with anyone who feels led to do so.

 

[lotsofquestion]

Sorry, I was implying that the comments on the scriptures quoted were opinions, not the scripture themselves. Without direct inspiration / revelation from God, all comments on written scripture are opinions and should be considered as such.

 

[Chad]

And exactly who are you to determine that the comments quoted on Scripture is "opinions"? You have no idea what your speaking of whatsoever. You just wrote off every person's comments in the two threads listed as opinions, and who are the one with "lotsofquestions". Go figure.

Don't speak what you do not understand, brother. If anything should be considered as such is your responses being simply ignorant. There is no humility whatsoever but assumptions from a man who clearly relies on his own understanding. The fact that you even call the rapture a concept proves it enough and your response in one of these threads goes further that your not here to learn the truth at all, but to mock the responses.

 

[lotsofquestion]

Wow,

I did strike a cord here. Of course an "interpretation" of any scripture will be an opinion. How can it be otherwise... unless someone inspired by God , perhaps a prophet, can actually explain it correctly? "Opinions" explain perfectly the many different denominations and sects of christianity we know of today. I do not think it is evil to have an opinion. Do you?

 

[Chad]

Wow,

I did strike a cord here. Of course an "interpretation" of any scripture will be an opinion. How can it be otherwise... unless someone inspired by God , perhaps a prophet, can actually explain it correctly? "Opinions" explain perfectly the many different denominations and sects of christianity we know of today. I do not think it is evil to have an opinion. Do you?

How fascinating coming from 'lotsofquestions' who calls rapture a concept and now "interpretations" an opinion. So, what Scripture says that one must be a prophet in order to interpret Scripture itself? I am not a prophet and I can read, understand the Word by the power of the Holy Spirit who enables me. I believe that applies to everyone else who seeks the Truth, unfortunately you do not believe this.

Opinions are not evil, opinions are also not Truth. When one speaks of the Word, he better be speaking truth and not opinions. You calling rapture a concept is an opinion, not truth.

 

[Chad]

article from raptureready.com

Isn't it true that the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible?

I've always been totally amazed at how some folks write me and try use the fact that the word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible as an argument against its validity. The issue should be whether or not the concept of the rapture appears in the Bible.

With 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 giving us such a clear description of the rapture, you would have to conclude some people are just playing games with the Word of God. I could change the name of my site to “Catching-Up Ready” to satisfy these folks, but I hardly think that would improve things.

Their logic runs very thin because a huge number of words don't appear in the Bible, including the word “Bible.” Because God's Word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, one could truthfully say that no English words are found in the Bible. Let's take a look at 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 in the original Greek:

<center> 4:16 oti autos o kurios en keleusmati en fwnh arcaggelou kai en salpiggi qeou katabhsetai ap ouranou kai oi nekroi en cristw anasthsontai prwton 4:17 epeita hmeis oi zwntes oi perileipomenoi ama sun autois arpaghsomeqa en nefelais eis apanthsin tou kuriou eis aera kai outws pantote sun kuriw esomeqa 4:18 wste parakaleite allhlous en tois logois toutois</center>
I don't see the dead in Christ rising, Jesus descending from Heaven, or us meeting Him in the air. They're right; the word “rapture” is nowhere to be found. All I see is gobbledygook.

For the record, the word “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb "caught up" that’s found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. You can call it the “pre-trib rapture,” the “pre-trib rapturo,” or the “pre-trib caught up” - it's all the same thing.

 

[DeaconBob3]

There are many who would sow dissention and confusion into the body of Christ by attacking nearly any specific Christian belief. The rapture and the belief in a rapture of the church has been attacked as being a doctrine that has only been around since the early 1800's. This is false information.

When one looks into the writings of the early church fathers we see the rapture mentioned in church writings as early as 118 AD again in 315 AD and on and on up to and including in our present church age.

Before we accept a criticism, no matter how factual it may seem, we need to research the "facts" of the issue and determine the real truth.

I believe that in Revelation 3, when Christ speaks of the Church of Philadelphia, he is speaking of all those who are rapture worthy and he describes what He will do for them as follows:

Rev 3:10-11

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV

Then at the beginning of Chapter 4 John is called up into heaven in the spirit in the same manner as described in Thessolonians by Paul, the sound of a trumpet and the voice of Christ. From this point onward in Revelation John represents Christ's church in heaven as I see it.

So.... Starting with the writing of the Book of revelation and coming forward in church history, we can see that various church fathers wrote of, spoke of and preached rapture from 118 AD onward. But do not take my word for it, do your own research and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the truth of God's word. Approach it with an open mind and heart and a willing ear and God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will provide all the rest of whatever you may need

In His Name

Deacon Bob3

 

[steve1979]

here you go

hey lotsofquestions you will find out whether or not there will be a rapture on the way up to meet the Lord in the air. The rapture is not a concept but a promise from God. Haleleujah!!!! Read thessalonians, its all there.

 

[CrossBow]

The following scripture is God's "concept" of the teaching of the resurrection of the dead.

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power"

This resurrection is already in progress and the "firstfruits" await the perfecting of the Church.

"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

 

[evangeline]

Rapture - raptor

1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the expression that we will be "caught up" together with them [the dead in Christ] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with Him forever. (Sounds exciting!!!)

The words caught up are translated from a Greek word which is possibly better translated as "snatch up."

The word "Rapture" was first used by Tertullian. (160-230 AD) It is derived from a Latin word which is also used to describe birds of prey - raptors, who are adept at swiftly snatching up their prey.

Tertullian meant for the word to describe the suddeness of the event rather than any ecstatic joy which may come with it.

(This Greek word is also used in 2 Corinthians 12&14 and Revelation 12:5. Compare with Matthew 13:19; John 10:12;Acts 8:39. Check it out, it's interesting...well I think it is.)



evangeline

PS. It was Tertullian who first used the word "Trinity" too.

PSS. To state that early Christian writers did not mention the Rapture is simply incorrect. Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Irenaeus, etc, the earliest of Christian writers after the Apostles, all wrote about it.

 

[Janette]

Blindness

You remind me of ... me ... some years ago lotsofquestions...and that's a bit frightening. I do not look back at my unsaved self with anything other than guilt. It is too easy to be hostile and defensive, but the simple truth is that you were told where to find your answers, yet you did not go there.

You seem to be approaching things from a "seeing is believing" stance. This won't work. It doesn't work in science, and it doesn't work in religion. I know because I've done it in science and I've done it in religion and failed both ways.

In college I had a lot of programming classes. I discovered I detest computer programming.

With absolutely no faith that I'd learned or absorbed anything I'd been taught, I wrote the code for my final project. I was about to hit my compile button to complete the program I'd written when my professor walked by.

He stopped me -- you see for this test, we could only compile the program once -- and then our grade would stand or fall based on how many errors were found in the code.

He looked at me -- at my stressed out little self -- and he said "are you *sure* you are ready to execute that compilation?" I mumbled "I think my code's ok...seeing is believing I guess" and I aimed for the button again.

He stopped me again.

"NO."

This odd old man looked at me with a grandfatherly smile and said "Seeing is not believing....Believing is seeing. All of the great researchers and inventors believed they could prove something or make something before they ever started *doing* anything. If you do not believe you have the aptitude to correctly perform this work, you will never see anything that is wrong with your code until it is too late."

He was right. I saved the file as I had it and went to look through it again. I found more than 5 errors (enough to pretty much destroy my grade).

---

I have found that this principle applies to studying the Bible as well. You will not see the Truth of God's Word until you believe in your heart that there is truth to be found there. You will not understand the messages left in those texts until you believe there are messages for you within the pages.

If you believe the Bible contains God's Word and that those words will have meaning for you, then humble yourself and read the passages of scripture that you have been given regarding the Rapture. Find the context of the verses quoted and expand them until you are reading the entire text which applies to the area of your question.

Interpretation is not required. Words have precise meanings. If you want to be really uptight about it (like I was) you can read it in the oldest language possible, but I can tell you from doing it myself that it just won't change the overall message that much.

If you do *not* believe the Bible contains God's Word then your question is best answered with "it's irrelevent because the Rapture and everything else is a myth." In which case...why are you here?

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Janette that is wonderrful.

Enjoyed reading your post here and it is so true believing is seeing.

John 20.
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


God bless you richly dear sister. :rainbow: :rose: