Question about death before Jesus

[whoopeedew]

For the first time I am reading through the entire Bible, so now questions are popping up in my mind. I understand that when Christ Jesus died he enabled all of us to go to heaven who believed he was the Son of God. So does that mean Abraham (etc) and all who died before him went to Hell, or they were just "in sleep" as the Bible says it?

 

[Hekuran]

Enjoy reading the whole Bible. It's a wonderful thing to do.

The best place to turn for an answer to this may be Romans 4, which makes it clear that Abraham's faith in God is a saving faith.

Abraham and all of God's people in the Old Testament are saved by the blood of Jesus. He could not know how Jesus would atone for their sins, but he trusted in God's promise which "was reckoned to him as righteousness". Genesis 15.6 and Romans 4.23.

 

[Gracealone]

For the first time I am reading through the entire Bible, so now questions are popping up in my mind. I understand that when Christ Jesus died he enabled all of us to go to heaven who believed he was the Son of God. So does that mean Abraham (etc) and all who died before him went to Hell, or they were just "in sleep" as the Bible says it?

The Bible tells us;"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." meaning those who are believers.

And no it doesn't mean the old testament saints went to hell.

They were saved by faith the same as us.
Abraham believed God, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. Gen. 15:6

Their faith was looking forward to the promise of God, and ours is looking back.
The thief on the cross, said to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom, and Jesus told him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise."
I'm not sure where this idea of sleep comes in, maybe our bodies only, for the rich man was aware of his condition,in Hell, and Jesus promised the thief he would ,that day be with him in paradise .......not sure.
Anyone have scripture to explain this more fully?

 

[trucker]

death before Jesus

Before heaven there was a place called paradise. The old testament saints, though saved by faith still had to wait until Jesus died and rose again. Remember, after Jesus rose men were made righteous but before he rose, righteousness was accounted to them. Its an accounting term.

The story of the rich man in Hell shows that there was a place called paradise that separated the righteous from the unrighteous. Remember, all Men were in Adam until Christ rose and presented the free gift of righteousness through his death, burial and ascension.

Now, men go directly to be with the Lord.

Trucker

 

[Gracealone]

Thank you Tucker....

I'm 71 years old, been a Christian since I was 6 1/2, but there is still so much to learn!
We have an awesome God, past finding out.
I believe we will spend all eternity learning about him,and his love for us.
Thanks for you input.

 

[Hekuran]

Before heaven there was a place called paradise. The old testament saints, though saved by faith still had to wait until Jesus died and rose again. Remember, after Jesus rose men were made righteous but before he rose, righteousness was accounted to them. Its an accounting term.

I am not sure this is correct. Paul also talks about righteousness being accounted to believers in the Roman church. Romans 4.23-24.

There is no difference in the salvation of someone who lived in the Old Testament era and today, except that we have seen God's promise fulfilled in Jesus, whereas they hoped for it in faith.

 

[stephen]

For the first time I am reading through the entire Bible, so now questions are popping up in my mind. I understand that when Christ Jesus died he enabled all of us to go to heaven who believed he was the Son of God. So does that mean Abraham (etc) and all who died before him went to Hell, or they were just "in sleep" as the Bible says it?

Keep reading sister. The New is in the Old concealed. The Old is in the new revealed.

Much better to study the scripture for yourself if you are able. Then you will meke up your own mind, which as it conforms to the scripture will be a good thing.

When I was a young man I often said to folks who had questions. Jesus is the answer....now what was the question?

Because I have found and know that a good drink of Jesus........the theology fades away. Theology is good and we need to know.......

But have you had a drink of that river..............?

 

[Gracealone]

Stephen,
I'm smiling because you sound so much like our Pastor Bob.
Sure your not from Costa Messa? LOL
Love the Calvary clear teaching from the word.

 

[SaulC76]

Where do we go?

This is such a good question and there is no really lucid answer. Obviously, by faith we know that whatever happens we'll be united with Him for eternity, so what happens between here and then is almost moot... still...

In some of his letters, Paul speaks of those who "sleep" meaning departed Christians. Many have construed this to mean that we go and sleep in some place until we are woken up on the day of the Lord. But when we see remarks like "paradise" as used by Jesus when He was on the cross, we tend to think there is a place that our departed soul goes to and it is not in a sleeping state.

In Hebrews, the author goes to lengths to explain our "rest" in Christ. Our "work" in the world is completed when we die. Christ is the one who gives us "rest". But does that truly mean we go to sleep? Why then would Christ say what He said to the thief on the cross with Him? Why would He mention paradise? And could it be that those who "sleep" as Paul refers to them as doing, are those who've entered His "rest"? Could this possibly be "paradise"?

Obviously, "paradise" isn't the new heaven and new earth as mentioned in the Revelation. These are future tense. Just as hell isn't the lake of fire as mentioned in the Revelation. The new heaven and new earth and the lake of fire are futuristic rewards for the life lived here. Paradise and hell are present-tense. Perhaps they are best explained as a waiting room.

In the Revelation, when Jesus is speaking to the church in Philadelphia, He states that those who overcome will be a "pillar in the temple of my God" (Rev. 3:12). This would appear to be a present-tense situation, because there is no temple in the futuristic "new heaven and new earth" (Rev. 21:22) If we're snoring until the day of the Lord, being a "pillar in the temple of God" seems a little... well... useless.

That's my opinion as based on what the word of God says. I've seen and read different opinions also based off of different Scripture. Still, one wonders why Moses and Elijah were seen during the transfiguration, or why dead saints were seen after Christ's death, or why God would want us to be sleeping somewhere not mentioned until His return.

God bless you in your journey to know Him more!

 

[Hekuran]

We struggle to get to grips with this because everything we experience is bound up in time. But Heaven is eternal and completely beyond our temporal understanding.

Writing on a different theme, Peter says that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 2 Peter 3.8.

So we do not need to speculate too much about paradise, limbo and sleeping. Why shouldn't saints who "go to the lord" a thousand years apart arrive before the throne of God together?

You can really hurt your head over this sort of thing if you want to go deep with it. But I feel more comfortable with accepting that the working out the relationship between time and eternity is beyond my grasp, than trying to speculate about the mechanics of death and heaven.

Stephen is right to remind us that the Scriptures are to draw us near to Jesus, not primarily to answer all our philosophical questions about life

 

[rlowe]

Psamls 68:18 (NASB)
When you ascended on high, you led captives in your train; you received gifts from men, even from the rebellious-- that you, O Lord God, might dwell there.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (NASB)
8 Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth ?
10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

{ Somewhere in the NT, I can't currently locate, it meantions Jesus going to those who had died prior His salvation & saving those who accepted Him as Lord, Savior, & companion. This was done prior to Christ coming back to life forever more.}