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Presbyterian Minister Admits Same-Sex Weddings

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Presbyterian Minister Admits Same-Sex Weddings

SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) — A Presbyterian minister accused of marrying two lesbian couples in violation of the faith's position on same-sex unions admitted Thursday that she officiated at the weddings, but said she was following both her conscience and the couples' wishes.
The Rev. Jane Spahr of San Rafael has been charged with official misconduct for conducting the ceremonies in 2004 and 2005 and violating her church's constitution.

As the first witness in her trial before a church judicial commission, Spahr testified that while she knew the Presbyterian Church (USA) reserves marriage for a man and a woman, she purposely used the language the couples wanted when she presided over the nuptials.

"I don't care what your sexual orientation is, what's most important to me is what you call it," she said. "They said 'marriage' and I was honored to do their 'marriage,' so they would not be seen as second-class in any way."

Spahr, 63, a lesbian and longtime activist, directs a group lobbying for greater inclusion of gay Presbyterians in the church. If found guilty by the Presbytery of the Redwoods, the church's regional governing body, she could face anything from a rebuke to being forced to leave the ministry after more than 30 years, according to one of her lawyers, Timothy Cahn.

In opening statements, Stephen Taber, a San Francisco lawyer representing the church, cautioned the seven-member tribunal not to get caught up in emotional arguments about gay rights.

"The burden on this commission is not to decide whether same-sex marriage is or is not appropriate for the Presbyterian Church USA or whether it should be forbidden," Taber said. "The only question here is whether Reverend Spahr committed certain acts, and whether those acts are in violation of the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church."

But defense attorney Sara Taylor countered by saying that ignoring the larger moral issues would be passing up an opportunity to correct a wrong no less grievous than the church's previous ban on allowing women to serve as ministers.

"Whether or not these marriages are good is an issue," Taylor said. "It is too simplistic to take something this church has wrestled with for 30 years and say it doesn't matter."

The Presbyterian Church (USA) is among several Protestant denominations embroiled in a bitter debate between liberals and conservatives over what role gays should have in their churches. Under a ruling by the national church's highest court in 2000, Presbyterian churches may bless same-sex unions as long as they do not equate the relationships with marriage.

Spahr is one of a half-dozen Presbyterian ministers across the nation facing disciplinary action for marrying same-sex couples.

The presbytery is responsible for investigating misconduct charges leveled against its member clergy. At issue is whether Spahr violated the part of the church constitution defining marriage as "a covenant through which a man and a woman are called to live out together before God their lives in discipleship."
 
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Spahr, 63, a lesbian and longtime activist, directs a group lobbying for greater inclusion of gay Presbyterians in the church. If found guilty by the Presbytery of the Redwoods, the church's regional governing body, she could face anything from a rebuke to being forced to leave the ministry after more than 30 years, according to one of her lawyers, Timothy Cahn.
Why is Spahr even allowed to minister or even be a part of their fellowship? While it may be possible to be a gay presbyterian, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a gay Christ follower.
She is not following Christ, so how she could possibly be a leader in the body of Christ is preposterous. She can only lead people away from Christ. What is next? A para-church ministry "gays for God"? Makes me want to vomit.
 
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Vomit without a doubt. Its all false preaching. Its all from the devil and 100% fruitless. How can anything that is against the Word of GOD (somewhat in disguise through obvious deceit) be fruitful for His kingdom?
 
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I am new here, and I am so glad to see I have found Christians who haven't gotten swept up in humanism and are standing for the truth despite the moral and political climate we live in. I agree that she has no business in the ministry.
 
Member
pottershands said:
I am new here, and I am so glad to see I have found Christians who haven't gotten swept up in humanism and are standing for the truth despite the moral and political climate we live in. I agree that she has no business in the ministry.
Welcome to TalkJesus, I'm glad that you are glad. LOL The members and staff here try very hard to keep it vertical and about Jesus. You will find us at various places on the Path that leads to Life and I'm sure you will find some to journey with. God Bless
 
Member
jiggyfly said:
Why is Spahr even allowed to minister or even be a part of their fellowship? While it may be possible to be a gay presbyterian, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a gay Christ follower.
She is not following Christ, so how she could possibly be a leader in the body of Christ is preposterous. She can only lead people away from Christ. What is next? A para-church ministry "gays for God"? Makes me want to vomit.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." (1Tim 4:1)

Spahr is proving that prophesy to be true.

SLE
 
Member
SpiritLedEd said:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." (1Tim 4:1)
Spahr is proving that prophesy to be true.
SLE
Amen SpiritLedEd, and all those leaders above her that allow it are just as deceived.
 
Member
We have to keep in mind that its the sin we hate and not the individuals committing the sin. Its sad that there is such a large qmount of gays and it seems they have more rights then Christians do when it comes to laws protecting them. This is more reason why we should get out and minister to them. I know where I live they even have gay churches! I couldnt believe it when I happen to see some of their adds in the local phone directory. it made me sick thinking that there is actually men or women who call them selves servants of God standing behind a pulpit teaching Gods word but saying its ok to lay down with your own kkind! what a lie! it is an abomination to God !
I know that a church that supports these kind of acts is not a church I choose to have anything to do with and I will only pray that the Lord will destroy their ministries! Now I am sorry if I have been a little harsh in my words but I believe in what God says and not what man wants God to say!
sincerly,
Michelle ( your sister in Christ forever)
 
Member
If the Presbyterian Church permits the 'blessing' of same-sex unions, what hinders it from permiting the 'marriage' of the same? There is a popular saying, "do not eat with the devil, even with a long spoon". It is time to flee to the mountain tops. Matt 24.
 
Member
Chad said:
Presbyterian Minister Admits Same-Sex Weddings
SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) — A Presbyterian minister accused of marrying two lesbian couples in violation of the faith's position on same-sex unions admitted Thursday that she officiated at the weddings, but said she was following both her conscience and the couples' wishes.
The Rev. Jane Spahr of San Rafael has been charged with official misconduct for conducting the ceremonies in 2004 and 2005 and violating her church's constitution.
As the first witness in her trial before a church judicial commission, Spahr testified that while she knew the Presbyterian Church (USA) reserves marriage for a man and a woman, she purposely used the language the couples wanted when she presided over the nuptials.
"I don't care what your sexual orientation is, what's most important to me is what you call it," she said. "They said 'marriage' and I was honored to do their 'marriage,' so they would not be seen as second-class in any way."
Spahr, 63, a lesbian and longtime activist, directs a group lobbying for greater inclusion of gay Presbyterians in the church. If found guilty by the Presbytery of the Redwoods, the church's regional governing body, she could face anything from a rebuke to being forced to leave the ministry after more than 30 years, according to one of her lawyers, Timothy Cahn.
In opening statements, Stephen Taber, a San Francisco lawyer representing the church, cautioned the seven-member tribunal not to get caught up in emotional arguments about gay rights.
"The burden on this commission is not to decide whether same-sex marriage is or is not appropriate for the Presbyterian Church USA or whether it should be forbidden," Taber said. "The only question here is whether Reverend Spahr committed certain acts, and whether those acts are in violation of the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church."
But defense attorney Sara Taylor countered by saying that ignoring the larger moral issues would be passing up an opportunity to correct a wrong no less grievous than the church's previous ban on allowing women to serve as ministers.
"Whether or not these marriages are good is an issue," Taylor said. "It is too simplistic to take something this church has wrestled with for 30 years and say it doesn't matter."
The Presbyterian Church (USA) is among several Protestant denominations embroiled in a bitter debate between liberals and conservatives over what role gays should have in their churches. Under a ruling by the national church's highest court in 2000, Presbyterian churches may bless same-sex unions as long as they do not equate the relationships with marriage.
Spahr is one of a half-dozen Presbyterian ministers across the nation facing disciplinary action for marrying same-sex couples.
The presbytery is responsible for investigating misconduct charges leveled against its member clergy. At issue is whether Spahr violated the part of the church constitution defining marriage as "a covenant through which a man and a woman are called to live out together before God their lives in discipleship."
This just proves that there a lot of professors and not possesors of salvation in the visible church. This minister has to be one of the tares that jesus talked about in his parables.
 
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Friarbob said:
This just proves that there a lot of professors and not possesors of salvation in the visible church. This minister has to be one of the tares that jesus talked about in his parables.
Amen Friarbob, we need more professors of the Christ. I can't wait to walk the aisle @ Jesus' wedding.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
jiggyfly said:
I can't wait to walk the aisle @ Jesus' wedding.
The mind boggles at the joy of the Big Festival, the goosebumps are so great it hurts [in a good way]. I can't wait either brother. I want out of this sinful world so badly. But, no can do until the lost are reached and our day is up according to the Father's will.

Ephesians 6:17-19

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,

1 Timothy 2:1-3

Pray for All Men

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
 
Member
Unbelieveable!

I just dont know how someone who has ministered for 30 years, all of a sudden decides to take Gods word and use it for what it's against???
Gods word is his word and will never change. We cant twist it to suite us and make it fit our flesh needs. Its like using the bible as a weapon to kill someone because i think its OK. If you are going to use the word of God, use it to please God. If you are going to use the word for what you think is right, but not permitted by God, than it is worthless, and you might want to ask yourself who and what you are living for.
For her to say she was honored to marry them, is to say she was honored to rebuke God.
I feel sorry for this lady and the people she ministers to because she is supposed to be a spiritual leader. I just hope she understands. If she is truly saved, she should learn form this and grow closer to God.
God Bless her.:eek:mg:
 
Member
If you are going to use the word of God, use it to please God.
Amen, the new justin, I think we are seeing Christianity's attitude toward God's Word becoming much like Judaism's @ the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry. This is what happens when we walk after the flesh, we use God's Word for selfish gain.

This is a sign that we are reaching the end of the age. We should be looking for His return.
 
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