Points to Ponder part 4: Walking in a swamp full of alligators

[Bill]

As a Catholic, I come out here to join with my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I am also shocked at the limitation that Protestants put on themselves when it comes to following the scripture.

Now admit that I tease all of you quite often on these very same subjects, and although I do it a bit of tongue and cheek when I do that. It's also worth a bit of sincerity in the question. This has to do with following the scripture.
 
Often you will hear someone state, "I follow the scripture". And my response to that person will be "no you do not". Because in reality there's a whole lot of things that are not being followed by way of the Protestant churches in general. And I really cannot fathom why.

the main excuse that I hear is, "well it's something the Catholic Church does and I'm not Catholic". But there's a huge problem with that, because Jesus lived on the earth well before the Catholic Church came into existence at least as a title. And all that was written down by the apostles or the writers of the Gospels existed well before the established Catholic Church ever was. So in my mind there's no real excuse.

so when you see me asking things like why do you not call Mary the mother of Jesus blessed. There's no real excuse for that. We all know that the scripture is the word of Jesus. And if you're going to call yourself Christians at least follow the words of Jesus which is the Bible.

Jesus himself is the one who established the breaking of the bread saying this is my body and the wine this is my blood. This is not something of the Catholic Church we do it because Jesus told us to remember him with that. We call Mary blessed because Jesus and the Holy Spirit told us to do that. Yes the Holy Spirit it states right in the scripture that Mary being filled with the Holy Spirit spoke to Elizabeth, from this day forward all nations will call me blessed.

there are other things it written in the scripture that you do not follow as well, even in your own Bible. So I again I say to you why why don't you follow the Bible as it is written in your own Bibles.

what so many of the churches have become, is a church only accepting what they want to accept and not accepting what Jesus has asked us to accept

 

[complete]

Hello @Bill,

I have not heard it said by any believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, that Mary was not greatly blessed (Luke 1:28): In fact the word (charitoo) that was used in relation to Mary being, 'Highly Favoured', is translated, 'accepted in the Beloved,' in (Eph. 1:6), in relation to the members of the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head; For we have been equally blessed by God in being, 'much graced,' as she was.

As to our Lord likening the wine and the bread of the Passover feast (Mat. 26:26-29), figuratively, to His Own body and blood, in remembrance of the price that He would pay for sin on our behalf, thereby cancelling the dept for all who will believe on His Name and acknowledge that He is indeed the Christ, the Son of God, Whose blood shed was the blood of the New Covenant that God will one day make with the nation of Israel, when they are brought to repentance, and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King at His coming. That has not been denied.

* What is denied is transubstantiation.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bill]

Hello @Bill,

I have not heard it said by any believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, that Mary was not greatly blessed (Luke 1:28): In fact the word (charitoo) that was used in relation to Mary being, 'Highly Favoured', is translated, 'accepted in the Beloved,' in (Eph. 1:6), in relation to the members of the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head; For we have been equally blessed by God in being, 'much graced,' as she was.

As to our Lord likening the wine and the bread of the Passover feast (Mat. 26:26-29), figuratively, to His Own body and blood, in remembrance of the price that He would pay for sin on our behalf, thereby cancelling the dept for all who will believe on His Name and acknowledge that He is indeed the Christ, the Son of God, Whose blood shed was the blood of the New Covenant that God will one day make with the nation of Israel, when they are brought to repentance, and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King at His coming. That has not been denied.

* What is denied is transubstantiation.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'm sorry that I cannot agree with you on setting myself on an even par with Mary the mother of Jesus, in the concept of what she did for all of us by saying yes to the angel.

Jesus never said, this bread and this wine is like me. What He said was "This Is my body" "this Is my blood" Matt 26:26-29 , Mark 14:22-25 , Luke 22:19&20.

 

[Twistie]

As a Catholic, I come out here to join with my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I am also shocked at the limitation that Protestants put on themselves when it comes to following the scripture.

Now admit that I tease all of you quite often on these very same subjects, and although I do it a bit of tongue and cheek when I do that. It's also worth a bit of sincerity in the question. This has to do with following the scripture.
 
Often you will hear someone state, "I follow the scripture". And my response to that person will be "no you do not". Because in reality there's a whole lot of things that are not being followed by way of the Protestant churches in general. And I really cannot fathom why.

the main excuse that I hear is, "well it's something the Catholic Church does and I'm not Catholic". But there's a huge problem with that, because Jesus lived on the earth well before the Catholic Church came into existence at least as a title. And all that was written down by the apostles or the writers of the Gospels existed well before the established Catholic Church ever was. So in my mind there's no real excuse.

so when you see me asking things like why do you not call Mary the mother of Jesus blessed. There's no real excuse for that. We all know that the scripture is the word of Jesus. And if you're going to call yourself Christians at least follow the words of Jesus which is the Bible.

Jesus himself is the one who established the breaking of the bread saying this is my body and the wine this is my blood. This is not something of the Catholic Church we do it because Jesus told us to remember him with that. We call Mary blessed because Jesus and the Holy Spirit told us to do that. Yes the Holy Spirit it states right in the scripture that Mary being filled with the Holy Spirit spoke to Elizabeth, from this day forward all nations will call me blessed.

there are other things it written in the scripture that you do not follow as well, even in your own Bible. So I again I say to you why why don't you follow the Bible as it is written in your own Bibles.

what so many of the churches have become, is a church only accepting what they want to accept and not accepting what Jesus has asked us to accept

I grew up roman Catholic my dad is an atheist n I totally get why to be honest all they do was push him further away.. my nanny was a protestant.. but me going to Catholic school most my school years going the the usually Sundays mass they neither follow what the Word says to b honest if we want get down to it.. for one we r told call no one Father but the Father in Heaven.. then we got the prayers to Mary n the saints n we r told not to worship no one but the Lord thy God.. just a few things that come right to mind.. I was pretty fortunate for the priest n the nuns YH had put in my path in my first 9 yrs of schooling tho.. they Truly did Love YH n they truly protected us for the outside worldly ways..


I doubt very much ya will find a True Church of YH in any of the temples now a days to b honest.. haven't seen one in many many moons.. n the world is just getting darker.. for His return is Coming....


Twistie

 

[complete]

I'm sorry that I cannot agree with you on setting myself on an even par with Mary the mother of Jesus, in the concept of what she did for all of us by saying yes to the angel.

Jesus never said, this bread and this wine is like me. What He said was "This Is my body" "this Is my blood" Matt 26:26-29 , Mark 14:22-25 , Luke 22:19&20

Hello @Bill,

You have been brought up, as a Catholic, to interpret the word of God in this way.

May God's perfect will be done in you, and in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brad Huber]

Hello @Bill,

I have not heard it said by any believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, that Mary was not greatly blessed (Luke 1:28): In fact the word (charitoo) that was used in relation to Mary being, 'Highly Favoured', is translated, 'accepted in the Beloved,' in (Eph. 1:6), in relation to the members of the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head; For we have been equally blessed by God in being, 'much graced,' as she was.

As to our Lord likening the wine and the bread of the Passover feast (Mat. 26:26-29), figuratively, to His Own body and blood, in remembrance of the price that He would pay for sin on our behalf, thereby cancelling the dept for all who will believe on His Name and acknowledge that He is indeed the Christ, the Son of God, Whose blood shed was the blood of the New Covenant that God will one day make with the nation of Israel, when they are brought to repentance, and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King at His coming. That has not been denied.

* What is denied is transubstantiation.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Why is it that you think transubstantiation to be impossible? Did not Jesus send out his disciples with great power to do amazing miracles? Things that were impossible for the most part?

 

[Bill]

I grew up roman Catholic my dad is an atheist n I totally get why to be honest all they do was push him further away.. my nanny was a protestant.. but me going to Catholic school most my school years going the the usually Sundays mass they neither follow what the Word says to b honest if we want get down to it.. for one we r told call no one Father but the Father in Heaven.. then we got the prayers to Mary n the saints n we r told not to worship no one but the Lord thy God.. just a few things that come right to mind.. I was pretty fortunate for the priest n the nuns YH had put in my path in my first 9 yrs of schooling tho.. they Truly did Love YH n they truly protected us for the outside worldly ways..


I doubt very much ya will find a True Church of YH in any of the temples now a days to b honest.. haven't seen one in many many moons.. n the world is just getting darker.. for His return is Coming....


Twistie

May the love of Jesus always be with us.

I don't think you know Twisty how much I really love reading your comments, and in some ways more than many here. You have such a beautiful faith.

I just want to point out, that whether you call Mary blessed or not call her blessed is really unimportant. Because that's not something that's going to save a person. In some ways I think of it like politics, I guess like politics of faith.

There are some things that just really don't matter. As an example tithing. Virtually all the churches are really hung up on the tithing thing. But Jesus tells us it isn't the money that God needs obviously, God doesn't need any money. The whole point of the tithing was in the beginning because the Jews were so doggone stubborn. Unfortunately the churches have gotten so deeply into money that they require the tithing to survive, and they forget about having faith. And this is true with the Catholics as well as the Protestants that money has become so important. That they forget about having faith.

And again tithing whether you tithe or not is not something that's going to save you. And so I call it politics

No I don't know if you know me really well, but for years I have been defending the Catholics to the Protestants. But I have also been defending the Protestants to the Catholics.

I have been trying to explain to the Catholics for years why the Protestants are just as eligible to receive heaven as they are. And this all comes down to what we actually believe that the Eucharist really is or as far as the process are concerned they don't know that it's the Eucharist but it is the Eucharist.

Jesus tells us that we have to receive him to enter Heaven. But there are a few different ways to receive Christ, but they all boil down to one thing to receive Jesus into your heart.

The Eucharist is a physical spiritual Encounter With Jesus. Because Jesus himself is both physical and spiritual at the same time.

I don't want to get too heady on this, but when we receive Jesus via the word via the blood of the Lamb via the Eucharist it is who Jesus is. Jesus is the Word made flesh. John 1:1 gospel

And is Paul points out later what is it to be a Jew. A Jew is one not someone who looks like a Jew or acts like a Jew or born into being a Jew, a Jew is one whose heart is circumcised.

We who hearts are circumcised in Jesus are the true Jews

 

[Bill]

Hello @Bill,

You have been brought up, as a Catholic, to interpret the word of God in this way.

May God's perfect will be done in you, and in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Well I did have a reason for titling it "walking in a swamp full of alligators" LOL

In this talk Jesus, we get so hung up on post such as talking about what hell is like, that we don't bother digging into some deeper topics and I'm not talking about getting into an argument but just trying to hear people out why we think the way we do.

And I'm certainly not trying to change anyone to become Catholic that's not the point at all. The point is just following what the scripture says not trying to relate to it as being Catholic.

If we look at the teachings of some of the fathers of the church. Which is well before the division of the Protestants and the Catholics. Back when we all used to get along. You'll find some good reading that have been put aside unfortunately because of labeling issues. It's a Catholic saint. But the fact remains that he was there well before the stupidity of the Catholic Church caused the problem in the first place. I'm not saying that those that run the church are in any way perfect all the time. Because I think you'll find that in not only the Catholics but many churches you all have problems we all have problems. Even now in the Catholic Church the Pope quite a few of the Cardinals and Bishops in Rome you have to wonder if they got their heads screwed on right.

I believe that they have accepted the woke ideology which is something of the devil in my personal opinion. It will definitely cause a split in the church.

I would very much like in what's going on in the Catholic church at this time to what is going on in America the USA. Because what's going on at the Capitol is definitely not Christian and it's not what the majority of the people the United States want either. But it doesn't stop us from believing in America and it doesn't stop us from believing it what the founding fathers originally wanted for America. It is the same way with the church the founding fathers of the church, they are our founding fathers who followed Jesus and we're with Jesus. Not just the apostles but those who came after the apostles.

 

[Twistie]

May the love of Jesus always be with us.

I don't think you know Twisty how much I really love reading your comments, and in some ways more than many here. You have such a beautiful faith.

I just want to point out, that whether you call Mary blessed or not call her blessed is really unimportant. Because that's not something that's going to save a person. In some ways I think of it like politics, I guess like politics of faith.

There are some things that just really don't matter. As an example tithing. Virtually all the churches are really hung up on the tithing thing. But Jesus tells us it isn't the money that God needs obviously, God doesn't need any money. The whole point of the tithing was in the beginning because the Jews were so doggone stubborn. Unfortunately the churches have gotten so deeply into money that they require the tithing to survive, and they forget about having faith. And this is true with the Catholics as well as the Protestants that money has become so important. That they forget about having faith.

And again tithing whether you tithe or not is not something that's going to save you. And so I call it politics

No I don't know if you know me really well, but for years I have been defending the Catholics to the Protestants. But I have also been defending the Protestants to the Catholics.

I have been trying to explain to the Catholics for years why the Protestants are just as eligible to receive heaven as they are. And this all comes down to what we actually believe that the Eucharist really is or as far as the process are concerned they don't know that it's the Eucharist but it is the Eucharist.

Jesus tells us that we have to receive him to enter Heaven. But there are a few different ways to receive Christ, but they all boil down to one thing to receive Jesus into your heart.

The Eucharist is a physical spiritual Encounter With Jesus. Because Jesus himself is both physical and spiritual at the same time.

I don't want to get too heady on this, but when we receive Jesus via the word via the blood of the Lamb via the Eucharist it is who Jesus is. Jesus is the Word made flesh. John 1:1 gospel

And is Paul points out later what is it to be a Jew. A Jew is one not someone who looks like a Jew or acts like a Jew or born into being a Jew, a Jew is one whose heart is circumcised.

We who hearts are circumcised in Jesus are the true Jews

Personally I break bread with those who I surround myself with when I can.. I do agree tho Mary was blessed I mean snap YH choose her out of all the woman to carry the Son n if one can't see that as a blessing then I'd say they r blind n deaf to b honest.. the problem comes in when one is singing praising n praying to her.. as for the tithes back in the day for tithes is was food clothes n what nots.. n the priest where supposed to help YHs children with the stuff collected.. why YH tells us they r stealing from Him.. I don't see many of these temples that have a store house filled with the things people could truly use the leaders instead pocket the money or paying off the temples bills.. sadly..
If they heard Him they hear He tells them to bring it all to the store house n watch the blessings fall..

Many don't see that Jewish has nothing to do with the bloodline cause in the OT we see that when the peep feared the jews many in a day turned into a jew.. idk where it's written but it is one gonna have to seek for themselves..

I believe the bigger problem is so many seek man for answers n many r so filled n puffed up on pride n want a title of teacher or whatever they don't point them to seek YH instead the spoon food n a spoon fed baby seems to b prone to continue to seek to b spoon fed by man instead of seeking YH for the answers they seek..

Hope alls well with ya !

Woo hoo surgery only 11 days away n that fiddleback bite is healing up finally lol

Twistie

 

[Bill]

Personally I break bread with those who I surround myself with when I can.. I do agree tho Mary was blessed I mean snap YH choose her out of all the woman to carry the Son n if one can't see that as a blessing then I'd say they r blind n deaf to b honest.. the problem comes in when one is singing praising n praying to her.. as for the tithes back in the day for tithes is was food clothes n what nots.. n the priest where supposed to help YHs children with the stuff collected.. why YH tells us they r stealing from Him.. I don't see many of these temples that have a store house filled with the things people could truly use the leaders instead pocket the money or paying off the temples bills.. sadly..
If they heard Him they hear He tells them to bring it all to the store house n watch the blessings fall..

Many don't see that Jewish has nothing to do with the bloodline cause in the OT we see that when the peep feared the jews many in a day turned into a jew.. idk where it's written but it is one gonna have to seek for themselves..

I believe the bigger problem is so many seek man for answers n many r so filled n puffed up on pride n want a title of teacher or whatever they don't point them to seek YH instead the spoon food n a spoon fed baby seems to b prone to continue to seek to b spoon fed by man instead of seeking YH for the answers they seek..

Hope alls well with ya !

Woo hoo surgery only 11 days away n that fiddleback bite is healing up finally lol

Twistie

I will keep you in my prayers. May the Lord send his angels to help the doctors and may the Lord Heal you

 

[Twistie]

I will keep you in my prayers. May the Lord send his angels to help the doctors and may the Lord Heal you

Aww thanks so much


Twistie

 

[complete]

Why is it that you think transubstantiation to be impossible? Did not Jesus send out his disciples with great power to do amazing miracles? Things that were impossible for the most part?

Hello @Brad Huber,

I did not say,( in reply#2), that transubstantiation is impossible: what I said was (quote) 'what I deny is transubstantiation'. There is a difference.

* Transubstantiation is the belief that the bread and wine of the eucharist becomes the blood and body of Christ. This is what those who are participating in that observance are therefore considered to be eating and drinking when they drink the bread and wine. I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively when He spoke the words of Matthew 26:26-29:- 'This is My body', 'This is My blood'.

*Peter said:-
'Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them,
which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them,
that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.'
(Act 15:19-20)

 

[complete]

Well I did have a reason for titling it "walking in a swamp full of alligators" LOL

In this talk Jesus, we get so hung up on post such as talking about what hell is like, that we don't bother digging into some deeper topics and I'm not talking about getting into an argument but just trying to hear people out why we think the way we do.

And I'm certainly not trying to change anyone to become Catholic that's not the point at all. The point is just following what the scripture says not trying to relate to it as being Catholic.

If we look at the teachings of some of the fathers of the church. Which is well before the division of the Protestants and the Catholics. Back when we all used to get along. You'll find some good reading that have been put aside unfortunately because of labeling issues. It's a Catholic saint. But the fact remains that he was there well before the stupidity of the Catholic Church caused the problem in the first place. I'm not saying that those that run the church are in any way perfect all the time. Because I think you'll find that in not only the Catholics but many churches you all have problems we all have problems. Even now in the Catholic Church the Pope quite a few of the Cardinals and Bishops in Rome you have to wonder if they got their heads screwed on right.

I believe that they have accepted the woke ideology which is something of the devil in my personal opinion. It will definitely cause a split in the church.

I would very much like in what's going on in the Catholic church at this time to what is going on in America the USA. Because what's going on at the Capitol is definitely not Christian and it's not what the majority of the people the United States want either. But it doesn't stop us from believing in America and it doesn't stop us from believing it what the founding fathers originally wanted for America. It is the same way with the church the founding fathers of the church, they are our founding fathers who followed Jesus and we're with Jesus. Not just the apostles but those who came after the apostles.

Hello @Bill,

I am a member of the church which is His (Christ's) Body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all, (Eph. 1:22-23). Christ is the Head of that body, and I acknowledge no other.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bill]

Hello @Brad Huber,

I did not say,( in reply#2), that transubstantiation is impossible: what I said was (quote) 'what I deny is transubstantiation'. There is a difference.

* Transubstantiation is the belief that the bread and wine of the eucharist becomes the blood and body of Christ. This is what those who are participating in that observance are therefore considered to be eating and drinking when they drink the bread and wine. I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively when He spoke the words of Matthew 26:26-29:- 'This is My body', 'This is My blood'.

*Peter said:-
'Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them,
which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them,
that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.'
(Act 15:19-20)

Yours is a good question, but we also have to look at the fullness of scripture, and what Jesus says. As an example how the spiritual and the physical walk hand in hand. As an example Jesus says to a man your sins are forgiven. Those around him question how can a man forgive sin. Jesus knowing what they were thinking said " why do you have such Wicked thoughts in your heart? Now which of these is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or to say get up and walk? But to prove to you that the Son of Man has Authority on Earth to forgive sins" He said to the paralytic " get up pick up your bed and go off home"

Is it really so hard to understand that bread and wine could actually become flesh and blood. Yet you have no problem believing that the Word of God can become flesh John 1:14.

And if the Word of God who is Jesus says that He is this bread and He is this wine. Are you then going to tell Jesus that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or what he's saying is a metaphor instead.

How then can you explain John 6:53 through 58

Jesus States " I tell you most solemnly, if you do not eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. Anyone who does Eat My Flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him. As I, Who Am sent by the living Father, myself draw life from the Father, so whoever eats me will draw life from me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread our ancestors ate, they are dead, but anyone who eats this bread will live forever."

 

[Bill]

Hello @Brad Huber,

I did not say,( in reply#2), that transubstantiation is impossible: what I said was (quote) 'what I deny is transubstantiation'. There is a difference.

* Transubstantiation is the belief that the bread and wine of the eucharist becomes the blood and body of Christ. This is what those who are participating in that observance are therefore considered to be eating and drinking when they drink the bread and wine. I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively when He spoke the words of Matthew 26:26-29:- 'This is My body', 'This is My blood'.

*Peter said:-
'Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them,
which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them,
that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.'
(Act 15:19-20)

Now i want to share with you something the Lord has opened my mind to. And this is something I think that you can accept as well.

The Eucharist, Jesus. Is the same as Recieving the Word of God into your heart.

The only difference, the Eucharist brings with it the fulness of God

Do you remember the reaction of the Apostles on the road to Emmaus. How they stated that when Jesus spoke to them about the scripture how it burned in them. But they still did not recognize him even though he spoke to them about himself in the scripture. It wasn't until Jesus broke the bread and gave the blessing that they recognized who Jesus was. This is what I am talking about when I say the fullness of Jesus in the blessed Bread and Wine

 

[Brad Huber]

Hello @Brad Huber,

I did not say,( in reply#2), that transubstantiation is impossible: what I said was (quote) 'what I deny is transubstantiation'. There is a difference.

* Transubstantiation is the belief that the bread and wine of the eucharist becomes the blood and body of Christ. This is what those who are participating in that observance are therefore considered to be eating and drinking when they drink the bread and wine. I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively when He spoke the words of Matthew 26:26-29:- 'This is My body', 'This is My blood'.

*Peter said:-
'Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them,
which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them,
that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.'
(Act 15:19-20)

You said. "I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively...".
So you admit that you may be wrong, its just what you believe?
Dont forget that many disciples turned away from Him when He told them that they must eat His body and drink His blood. You think that He was only kidding them? Its disgusting to think on such things, for we know they are wrong, even scripture states doing it literally is wrong. But it would make PERFECT sense if he was speaking of transubstantiation. Perhaps again, people thought it so disgusting that people decided Jesus must have meant figuratively, and this is one of the changes they made in the split off of the RCC. Not because they knew through the Holy Spirit that it was wrong, but because it was too disgusting to think otherwise. There in lies the problem, nothing spiritual is ever easy for man to accept, we love our facts, our things written in stone so that we are safely tucked away in things that are more real to us. But as it says... there is indeed power in the blood. Not the evil blood magic that some evil people practice, which in itself is just a copying and corruption of the true blood magic. The true blood magic is all spiritual, but it is still just as real, just as real as Jesus is.

 

[complete]

Yours is a good question, but we also have to look at the fullness of scripture, and what Jesus says. As an example how the spiritual and the physical walk hand in hand. As an example Jesus says to a man your sins are forgiven. Those around him question how can a man forgive sin. Jesus knowing what they were thinking said " why do you have such Wicked thoughts in your heart? Now which of these is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or to say get up and walk? But to prove to you that the Son of Man has Authority on Earth to forgive sins" He said to the paralytic " get up pick up your bed and go off home"

Is it really so hard to understand that bread and wine could actually become flesh and blood. Yet you have no problem believing that the Word of God can become flesh John 1:14.

And if the Word of God who is Jesus says that He is this bread and He is this wine. Are you then going to tell Jesus that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or what he's saying is a metaphor instead.

How then can you explain John 6:53 through 58

Jesus States " I tell you most solemnly, if you do not eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. Anyone who does Eat My Flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him. As I, Who Am sent by the living Father, myself draw life from the Father, so whoever eats me will draw life from me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread our ancestors ate, they are dead, but anyone who eats this bread will live forever."

Hello @Bill,

I read John 6 only last night. It is a wonderful chapter. The verses you refer to (vv. 53-58) are explained in verses 60-63:-

'Many therefore of His disciples,
when they had heard this, said,
"This is an hard saying; who can hear it?"
When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples murmured at it,
He said unto them,
"Doth this offend you?"
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?
It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit,
and they are life.'
(Joh 6:60-63)

* The disciples were thinking in fleshly terms, and naturally found the drinking of blood and eating of flesh repugnant: so the Lord challenges their thinking, and tells them that it is the spirit that quickens,' the flesh profiteth nothing'. He would not always be with them in the flesh, for He would be returning to the Father: what would remain were the words that He had spoken in their hearing; It is His words, which are spirit, His words which are life. It was what He had told them that His flesh and His blood represented, that they were to eat and inwardly digest, in the spirit. The flesh counts for nothing.

Eating and drinking was used figuratively, in regard to hearing and believing the doctrines that our Lord taught them.

 

[complete]

You said. "I believe that the Lord was speaking figuratively...".
So you admit that you may be wrong, its just what you believe?
Dont forget that many disciples turned away from Him when He told them that they must eat His body and drink His blood. You think that He was only kidding them? Its disgusting to think on such things, for we know they are wrong, even scripture states doing it literally is wrong. But it would make PERFECT sense if he was speaking of transubstantiation. Perhaps again, people thought it so disgusting that people decided Jesus must have meant figuratively, and this is one of the changes they made in the split off of the RCC. Not because they knew through the Holy Spirit that it was wrong, but because it was too disgusting to think otherwise. There in lies the problem, nothing spiritual is ever easy for man to accept, we love our facts, our things written in stone so that we are safely tucked away in things that are more real to us. But as it says... there is indeed power in the blood. Not the evil blood magic that some evil people practice, which in itself is just a copying and corruption of the true blood magic. The true blood magic is all spiritual, but it is still just as real, just as real as Jesus is.

Hello @Brad Huber,

Please see previous post, written to Bill.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Curtis]

Jesus also referred to himself as a “door” but not a literal door as we think it means. Jesus also referred to himself a a “vine” but not a literal vine as we think it is. We are told we are “branches” but not literal branch’s. These are all symbolic in meaning and are used as a “metaphors ”. Eating and drinking of Jesus body and blood are all metaphors that symbolize a more spiritual meaning Referring to having faith in the work of Jesus upon the cross where his body was broken and his blood poured out for us.

 

[Bill]

Hello @Brad Huber,

Please see previous post, written to Bill.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Let us let the Lord reveal the correct measure. I have no wish to go back and forth. The Father is still our Father. He would be upset with me to cause anger in my brothers and sisters.

Aside from the concept the Catholics have, i do know when a person recieves the Word into thier heart, it is the very same the body and blood of Jesus.

To a degree, we must separate our mind from only seeing Jesus as a human, because so many get stuck in that trench and where faith stops.

Jesus / God goes well beyond our understanding. Don't you sort of laugh when a person describing God refers to Him as only a spirit. God, i.e. Jesus, made spirits. Jesus says "I am in the Father and the Father is in me." Jesus also stated, "Hear Oh Israel, your God is One."

So you see, Jesus is well beyond just flesh and blood. Scripture states, Jesus was the Rock that followed the Israelites in the desert for 40 years. It was Jesus who was the Life Giving Water. It was Jesus who spoke to Moses on the mountain. And not only was it Jesus who made the Two Stone Tablets for Moses. But He was the One who set Himself into them. Because He is the Word of God.