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Pharmaceuticals, are they witchcraft/sorcery

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New Member
I'm curious where we ought to draw the line with medications in accordance with the Bible saying pharmaceuticals are sorcery. How are we to know if any pharmaceuticals are ok, and which ones? I especially wonder about psych meds but what about opiate pain pills. You see, I've been through terrible experiences with medications in my life because I've dealt with chronic, excruciating pain, depression, and anxiety since I was a teenager. Now I'm starting to question if I should be on medications at all, because I want to be obedient to God. However, the health issues are real. And I still pray every day for healing that I just don't have. I don't think God heals everyone in this lifetime, in this world. I appreciate any biblical responses. Thank you.
 
Loyal Member
[for me anyway] "witchcraft" used in (Galatians 5:20) exactly does mean pharmaceuticals: it is a matter of using such to alter the mind that is contrary to the will of God, but not such as is prescribed for a true medical condition; for God created plants for medical needs, but not to be exploited.
 
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Top Poster Of Month
The word pharmaceutical or pharmacy comes from the word 'Pharmakeia' which is witchcraft..But! If you cannot trust God for your healing then you need to go to doctors until you can. That's why God gave us doctors...You do NOT depend on the drugs they give you but you do use them. Until you can trust God for your healing. Do you understand what I mean? The improper use of a drug is directly linked to witchcraft but properly used is not. Even properly used though, is a poor second to trusting God for your healing which Jesus bought and paid for, for YOU
 
Loyal Member
Medicine has nothing to do with witchcraft. Nothing at all.

Witchcraft is the attempt to harness supernatural spiritual powers. Medicine is making use of natural resources for healing.
 
Moderator
Staff member
First be welcome to Talk Jesus @Amie Brodersen
Always a joy to welcome another Sister in Christ Jesus to this online Christian Community of Believers!

Now to drugs/medicines.

In ancient times as well as in today's society you had practices that would incorporate medicine with spell casting. Dealing with a society that was deeply influenced by the Supernatural. The use of both provided a belief that healing powers were being brought to the service of the healer to use upon those in need. Practices, still are done today, but mostly in societies that still have a foot in both the scientific and spiritual. New Age practices are one of these as well as some Tribal practices.

As a Christian, the use of medicines are not something to toss aside if proscribed by a physician. Still, I am of the belief like Brother Bendito that until ones faith is such that it will no longer be needed, continuing the use of something proscribed by a physician is the way to go.

Understanding that placing ones faith in God, also means that one might not necessarily be healed. It's about trusting that whatever the circumstances you find yourself in that it is God that you turn to. Letting His will to be done in and through you is ultimately what we seek to have fulfilled in all aspects of our life.

If just a curiosity, then I hope this has been of some help.

If you are need of prayer.
Let us know!
We are a praying site!!!

Once again be welcome Sister Amie.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou [art] my praise. Jeremiah 17:14

And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. Luke 5:31
 
Loyal Member
Medicine has nothing to do with witchcraft. Nothing at all.

Witchcraft is the attempt to harness supernatural spiritual powers. Medicine is making use of natural resources for healing.
I would agree with most of this... but.... I harness supernatural spiritual powers daily through the Holy Spirit and prayers. So doing so without God in the equation would be my definition.
 
Loyal Member
I get your point. I did think carefully about how to describe witchcraft, even if those thoughts didn't make it to the thread

I think the distinction is even more fundamental than the way you describe. It's about which way the power flows. My guess - and hope - is that your faith is founded on submitting to God, proclaiming his lordship over every part of your life?

Remember the story of Simon the Sorcerer in the book of Acts? It's possible to have a 'witchcraft' approach to the one true God.

Witchcraft : do my will
Christianity : thy will be done.

We should go to another thread if you want to to-and-fro on this.
 
Loyal Member
I get your point. I did think carefully about how to describe witchcraft, even if those thoughts didn't make it to the thread

I think the distinction is even more fundamental than the way you describe. It's about which way the power flows. My guess - and hope - is that your faith is founded on submitting to God, proclaiming his lordship over every part of your life?

Remember the story of Simon the Sorcerer in the book of Acts? It's possible to have a 'witchcraft' approach to the one true God.

Witchcraft : do my will
Christianity : thy will be done.

We should go to another thread if you want to to-and-fro on this.
No need, I agree with you.
 
Loyal Member
Years ago there was a young lady at the church I went to. She was a believer and part of a Christian family. At some point - as a teen -- she started having problems with horrible thoughts going through her mind. It really upset her. She shared it with her parents and they prayed with her about it. They wanted to make sure it wasn't something spiritual that needed to be taken care of. Finally they decided to go to a doctor. And he suggested a specialist. They were told that sometimes there is a chemical imbalance in the brain that needs to be dealt with. They were told that medication could help. They were Very hesitant but decided to give it a try. It Worked. The drug was able to get rid of her symptoms.

And the pain medications -- very real horrible pain that needs to be dealt with. My husband experiences real pain and the meds he can take are highly addictive. He only takes it when he has to. It will make him 'doppy' for a day or so.

Back in the old days -- the Indians knew how to use natural herbs and such for pretty much Everything.

There Is a big difference between a witch doctor and medicine. And there Are countries where the 'witch doctor' is the boss. He is capable of doing many things to control the people in a village. So, depending on a person's background, there Might be reason to question pharmacy products. But to equate the two is not doing modern medicine credit where it's due.

And we Do need to realize that sometimes healing will take place in heaven. And sometimes here on earth. Sometimes a person with chronic illnesses can be a real Christian blessing to their Dr's and other patients they are around.

And there Is the medical marijuana that Is used and fairly successfully. But there are also Lots of people who use it that Don't need it. They just like the idea of being able to use 'pot' legally. It's been said that there are legal drugs that can be used instead of medical marijuana and are very affective.

And there are some drugs that are advertized that have so many bad side affects listed that a person wonders if the drug is worse than the disease it's trying to treat.

We need to take care of our bodies. Work with good nutrition , exercise, lots of water, no smoking or alcohol. Avoid junk food. Fruits, veggies. Etc.

Just like our bodies can get sick and need help -- so can our brains get sick and need help. As well as our emotions.
 
God has given herbs for the healing of our bodies but you have to know which one to use and how to used them. Herbs are very affective and have no side effects. The side of effects of the pharmaceutical meds are sometimes worse than the medical condition one is trying to treat. Good wholesome food is a medicine when you get right down to it. When your food crops are grown in organic soils that are laidened with all the minerals that should be there naturally, those crops are very healthful and basically a medicine for keeping the body well.

The Bible make mention that God gave man the herbs for his benefit. The thing is, which one to use and how to use them. I’ve wondered about this and I feel that at one time God had the instructions on the how to, on herbs for man uses of the herbs. I just can’t see God giving us the herbs without giving us the instructions on how to use them. Somewhere down the line those instructions were destroyed for a very devious reason.

The Nobel winning doctor/scientist Dr Pauling made the statement that all disease could be linked to a mineral deficiency. I’ve read many times that the soil across the USA are depleted by forty to sixty percent. So if the minerals are not in the soil, the minerals are not in the vegetables. Farmers just add three minerals now days, nitrogen, phosphorus, and potash. Those will make plants grow and look very healthy and delicious, but if the other 100 minerals or so are not in the soil, the minerals are not in the produce.

For those who grow gardens there is good news. There is a product out there that gardeners can buy called AZOMITE. It is the remains of a volcano explosions I think 250 million years ago. They have been mining it for about sixty years and selling it for the Re mineralization of the soil. I’m just going from memory but I think it’s has 60 to 70 minerals in it. It will really make a difference in the healthyness of your garden produce. You can do a search on the internet, just type in AZOMITE, there is a lot of info to be read and learned. Another good site is, www.Soil Minerals.com. This man had a product that has about a hundred minerals in it. All natural and organic.
 
Well -- back when God created those herbs and for a long time after that -- the land was Good. And -- when man gained knowledge of Both good and Evil -- man's mind began to find 'other' ways to use all the good things. And man learned through trial and error what was good and what wasn't. The Indian tribes had their medicine men. They knew their 'stuff'. God Does use other people to learn From. And I'm thinking that the book of Leviticus Does have instructions for a Lot of things. Cleanliness and too close of relationships have something to do with our health.

And all the chemicals that get put into our soils and our animals work Against us lots of times.

You Did mention volcano explosions about 250 million years ago. Isn't that date a Bit Before God created everything.
 
G5331
φαρμακεία
pharmakeia
far-mak-i'-ah
From G5332; medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.
Total KJV occurrences: 3


This is from Galatians 5:20.

φαρμακεία
pharmakeia
far-mak-i'-ah
From G5332; medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

This is from Rev 18:23;


Is this all drugs and all medications? I don't think so. But it is "recreational" drugs that are intentionally taken to alter your mental state.
 
And, yes, of Course it's a money-making thing. But, chemo therapy Has been known to 'work miracles' in a person's body to rid it of cancer and it Also CAN and often Does have negative consequences. But they're working on the assumption that everyone wants to live as long as possible in this world. And quality of life for the patient doesn't seem to matter. Because Lots of people have no belief in any positive after-life to look forward To. A believer has the assurance of being absent from this body is being immediately with Jesus Christ. A glorified body.

We've probably All heard of the people who want to keep 'grandma / grandpa' alive no matter what shape they are in. And, face it, lots of times our bodies don't like us when we're elderly even without cancer to deal with. Lots of elderly Need round the clock care that family members simply can't do at home. So Extended Care facilities / Nursing homes are the alternative.

Recently -- as of Oct 5, my husband of 46 years -- he'd fallen down - not able to get back up. EMS was called by a passer-by and he was taken to local hospital first and then to VA hospital a ways away and Then to Scott and White which was relatively close by. That was because the VA Emergency area was not accessable at the time. I had to decide 'now' on either emergency brain surgery because of a serious brain bleed or No surgery and let nature do it's thing. I opted for the surgery --not even thinking about cost involved. A second surgery was indicated a couple of days later. THAT was turned down. His quality of life would be next to nothing. Sure - he would have been 'alive' , but......... The intubation was removed and he could not breathe on his own and was gone within minutes. That entire week. From Oct 1- 5 was Hard. It was spent in ICU -- eyes' swollen shut -- hard of hearing at best. His right side was basically gone.

Some soil in this country is Wonderful and some just isn't. Depending on where a person lives. Farmers probably eat/ ate healthier than us city folk. And, yes, snack food Is horrible on our systems. But we've become a 'fast-food' nation-- busy, busy lives -- apparently So busy as to not have time to eat properly.

And, yes, sugar Is probably bad for Everyone. Dentists probably Love it -- gets them lots of patients over the years. And That's why we have so many over-weight people and more and more Kids are over weight -- pre-diabetic. Or full-blown diabetic. But, we Are a country of Freedom / Choices. Most other countries do Not have That. Part of the reason people come here in droves -- illegally, too. We are supposedly to be 'good Christian people' and let them have everything / anything they want -- our 'love' being shown.

The Best Freest gift that Anyone can Ever receive is Jesus Christ as their personal Savior / Lord. Maybe missionaries should meet them on the other side of our border and share That Free Gift with them.

Well -- other than preaching a sermon and being way off topic. will post this.
 
Moderator
Staff member
Dear Sister @Sue D.
You had mentioned a while ago the loss of your husband. This is the first time that you have shared the story of it here.
Tomorrow I celebrate 35 years of marriage, and can't hardly imagine but for the knowledge that she'd be with the Lord, that I won't be hurting at her loss, no loss is the wrong word, but rather separation. My heart goes out to you and of course my prayers for your comfort and peace in Christ Jesus. Let us hold on to the promises that are ours to know and share. That there is so much more for us to come in Christ Jesus!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Proverbs 17:22 (KJV)
22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

Medicine (for a cure) is obviously associated with blessing.
Ezekiel 47:12 (KJV)
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Now medical science recognizes the good effects of fruit for food and health, as well as the leaves.

1 Timothy 5:23 (KJV)
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Paul giving health advice to Timothy. The hard way to learn such things is to drink water in a foreign land except from a sealed, branded water bottle. Even then it's not insulting to ask them to crack the seal and microwave it until slightly warm. Use none of their ice. Paul doubtless encounted Greek medicine, marked by monuments to Hippocrates (somewhere around Mars Hill,Athens), whose medical observations are still amazing.

The U.S.A. has about 6,000 licensed naturopathic doctors. Read up on these experts in medicinal herbs and lots of other healing techniques your family doctor can't talk about. They endure more years of specialty training than general prac doctors concerning natural healing. Mine replaced my cholesterol lowering prescription med with a natural herbal one with the same pharm ingredient a pharicuital factory simulated, but with no known side effects, though a little more expensive. She has me taking 1/4 of former prescribed cardio meds, switching slowly to herbal supplements along with easy diet and much easier exercise than gym workouts.

Back to the Bible....The KJV used the Gr. pharmakeia as old English for "witchcraft". That word was rooted in "pharakeus" (drug), which came from "pharmakeon" (druggist). There are posaitive and negative usages of those. Usage and understanding in Greek depends on Greek grammar. There is a spiritual world between a witch doing evil witchcraft, and Mr. Hippocrates ( circa BC) discovering healing with medicines and practicing intervention medicine/healing methods to heal the sick. That was all mankind had until Jesus demonstrated then secured our healing on his last day among men.

It took me many years to realize why it didn't matter how much I or anyone else begged God for my healing. Israel had Isa 53 and other scriptures to look forward to the year 33 AD. The Church has only to trust back to that same year for what we Christians already possess. Why go to a bank begging for some of your money already on record there?

PERSONAL TESTIMONY. As for arthritic pain, I still enjoy a rescue from hydrocodone taken way past addition, getting that prescribed over and over. I met a very young man on a Christian website, who lives in India. He was then walking out from Hyderabad on days off work to preach Christ to the very poorest of the poor in tiny villages. He came in asking for American answers to answers to Bible issues hard to understand. Although I realized he was poor too, I extended an offer that should he ever somehow make it to America, visit us.

One fine day he called saying he was getting off a bus in my city. "May I meet you" he asked. I was shocked, but said "yes, let me come get you." He already had a cab arriving. My wife and I wondered. Was this a scam? The cab arrived. Onto the porch came the blackest man imaginable. When I opened the door he said "OH, I am now worthy, I'm a n***" Right then I knew he was from a British dominated area, and it had to be Satish from Hyderabad. I hugged him and let him inside. That young man spent 2 weeks with us, studying, praying, and being introduced to our church and friends. My wife and I came to regard him as our son, and he our "Mum & Dad". He came back for two weeks each of two more years, helped to secure support from as many sources as we could find. On that last week he found my precious bottle of hydroco. Holding it up he said "EVIL, it must go." I fell to my knees begging for its return. He returned it, but explained why he had been requiring so much of the spice turmeric, that yellow hot spice you wonder what else besides "curry" it is useful for. It is a natural anti-inflammatory substance. Most pain is caused by inflammation. He mailed me some as well as newly available Curcumin extract. I began taking the supplement, quickly abandoning the hydrocodone. We've been in contact by phone and web since, sending monthly support most of the years since the year 2000.

Last May we got an invititation to attend his receiving an honorary doctorate from Dallas Baptist University. We enjoyed a wonderful time there, meeting his wife and two sons at last at Our temporary digs, the Hilton Anatole. Rev. Doctor P. Satish Kumar was honored as founding pastor of Calvary Temple, Hyderabad, India. Membership is above 170,000 in the Hyderabad facility, plus billions of viewers by satellite TV and internet, now said to be the fourth largest church in the world. He was blessed to know I never take hydrocodone or even Tylenol for pain. He announced that our contribution, usually under $100 a month, amounted to millions in India, a vast fortune for him. At a special personal supper for 12 of his original supporters, my wife sat at his right hand. She was the major figure setting up meetings in the USA while I worked at my career. She was blessed that Satish served his prized chicken legs to her. All our friends share in that crown. I am sill the lowly "Dad" (& "Mum") Jim Campbell from Hot Springs to that church on the other side of Earth, a very white Caucasian the Lord is still teaching to love as Jesus loved. I stopped 'working on that', now letting Jesus finish me out.

Be open to wisdom and "good Samaritans". Blessing comes sometimes in strange ways. But above all, stop looking for a future healing. It was paid for two millennia past. Hold the church elders, who are supposed to lay hands on you and praying effectually, to your healing, to the standard of healing Jesus" way. The only people he couldn't heal were those lacking faith. Refuse any excuse as to why yu don't experience healing when believing for that, no doubting, confessing with words before witnesses. You only benefit from faith benefits when speaking it out.
 
In short, a common weed growing in the backyards of poor people in India was the answer to my hopes for pain relief, delivered by one of the least likely messengers, one sent from God 8700 miles to my porch. Since then I was given time to get wisdom concerning changes to my use of faith and words of my mouth, consumption of food, physical activity, and paying attention to health matters in general, like the dozens of proved values of taking wide-variety species probiotics. We all live in a fallen, corrupted world environment. We drink water likely polluted with heavy metals, hormones flushed into sewage systems that cause fish to exhibit dual sexes, petroleum chemicals sweeping through the ground water, affecting literally everything we touch or breathe. We all need some extra punch in our diet. Now even some "organic" grains are grown on lands formerly contaminated by glyphosate herbicide and arsenic lacing mid-American rice. The FDA has been caving in to allow some pollutions and still call things "organic".

Get knowledge, get wisdom (how to use knowledge), learn faith (how to put wisdom into action) and speak it into your life (like you had to when born again and baptized) rather than blaming God for apparently refusing to heal some folks so they can be "blessed" in their misery. That goes totally against the promise of scriptures. The same faith that saves a person is the faith used to be healed of everything else. If you can believe in your heart you receive from God, nothing doubting, speaking it out as a testimony, you must experience it.
 
I’m sorry also for your loss Sue. The pain or the shock of loosing a love one cuts deep, it just breaks ones heart. But in reality it’s just like Christ4Ever stated, it’s not death but only separation. There are two deaths that one person/soul can experience. The first death is the death of this ole flesh body and most will go through that death as we age. Not all will see a flesh death as we know. But the death of the flesh is not the death of the soul/intellect, that part of man that can think the thought, l am, I am a real live being. That part of man does not die when this flesh body dies. Those love ones that have so called died are still just as much aware of you as you are of them. The soul or spirit don’t die when the flesh body dies. This is known as the 1st death.

Then there is the 2nd death, this is the death of the soul. This death is final, no thoughts will ever come from this death of the soul. No thoughts of, I am. I going make a statement and hope you all can get what I’m saying. No one has died yet. Yes flesh man dies, but the soul/spirit still lives. There has been only one entity sentenced to the second death by name, at the end of the millennium, and that’s Satan/anti christ. He is the only one. He also goes by the name of, SON OF PERDITION. It mean to perish. I know 7000 of the fallen angels will die at that same time, but as a group.

Like Sue said, I’m off topic, but we were talking of loosing a loved one, thought you would Feel better knowing your love one is still thinking and reminiscing about you. Only thing is they have an edge over you, they know what’s on the other side.

Back to pharmaceuticals, there is so many effective natural cures out there you really don’t need the pharmaceutical drug. But you have to know about the natural cure. This is what’s so evil about how big pharma lobby’s our law maker to keep natural cures out of the mainstream knowledge. They get our law makers to pass laws that prohibit doctors from using or telling a patient how to cure himself with just house whole things Take apple cider vinegar, it does over a hundred things good for the human body. The best kinds to get is, Braggs apple cider vinegar with the MOTHER. That’s the enzyme that makes the true apple cider vinegar. Braggs is certified organic. Braggs also has a book that tell all the benefits and how to use them. Want to keep your money I your pocket or use it for things other than paying the Doctor and the pharmacist.

Don’t like using myself as an example but I’m coming upon 67 and I’m not on any meds and haven’t been to a doctor in over 10 years. Hardly ever have a cold, but when I do, I tell something is attacking my body but I don’t feel bad, I just on about the day, don’t remember when I had a sore throat last. And everyone can do the same once you learn natural cures. I don’t know what it cost to just walk thru the front door of a doctors clinic. Thought I heard someone say it cost him $75 just walk in the door an sign in. And then there were the meds he had to buy.

Told a friend about how apple cider vinegar ACV would help on his diabetes and he tried it and he claims it cut his meds down 30%. I read about an herb called berberine that would help diabetes and I told that same friend about it and he said it helped about another 30 %. He said you find me one more thing for diabetes that works like those two, and I’m diabetic free. Not sure about that. Gods natural things for healing man do a better job than the pharmaceutical drug which all carry side effects. Some are pretty deadly. There have been meds released for the public’s use and they had to take them back off in less than year cause it was killing people left and right. Boy what rocket scientist let that get on the market.
 
Beresheet -- I was agreeing with you pretty much Until you made your comment about the 7,000 fallen angels who you know will die at that same time, and as a group.
Scripture says that satan will be caste into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and false prophet already will be.

Diabetes is a mild to very serious disease. God has given Dr.s their ability to diagnose diseases and find potential cures. And sometimes diet and exercise are all that's needed. Great. Other times strict diet and insulin are necessary.

Each person's body reacts differently to medications. And diseases as well. Over the years I've know about a dozen women who've been diagnosed with breast cancer. Some had very little problem with either radiation or chemo treatments. And others have had more problems and complications. And one of the ladies -- probably the youngest of all of them, had complication after complication after complication.

I'm nearly 70. The dentist office has gotten more of my money than any other Dr. Except for having cataracts removed about two years ago. My problem has been sleeping. I'm a very light sleeper. I hear Everything. And have the radio on 91.3 FM almost all the time.

Lots of adjustments of all kinds over past two months with more to come.

Maybe we all need to pray for each other. Wisdom, etc.
 

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