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Personal Righteousness

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Loyal Member
I believe those reborn learn the holiness of God and the sinfulness of our nature at the same time and at the same level so as not to be overwhelmed as He gradually gives us their comprehension. Therefore I do not think understanding more of His holiness will increase beyond the understanding of our human nature (old man). Regardless of our understanding here, grace ever abounds over our sin nature, but our “confidence toward God” (in our conscience and walk – 1 John 3:20) will be commensurate with the understanding of these truths.

My conception of humility is not contemplation of unworthiness in view of our sin nature, but in accepting God’s favor in Christ—despite that nature! There is a level of acceptability upon our initial learning here, but a continued unworthiness in mind and heart not only evinces a lack of clarity concerning His grace, but also evinces that of a lessor manifestation by the walk of the believer concerning the glory of Christ’s reparation and the Father’s forgiveness (though inadvertently so).

God give us to know the completeness of not only our favor in Christ, but also that of its unchanging principle, so that “our heart condemn us not” (1 John 3:21), and our fellowship with Them exist less unimpeded!
NC




Personal Righteousness

We are not to be as Peter, when he said, “Depart from me, I am a sinful man, O Lord (Luke 5:8). There may be good desires, and tenderness of conscience, but it will run into legality, because of not resting in the favor of the Father. These experiences may be all very useful in their place, but they are not peace. We have peace made and divine righteousness wrought out. I can now look upon my Father without hiding my sin. The way I come to the sense of the immensity of sin is with the immensity of the grace that has met it all.

The reality of the presence of the Holy Spirit, who has come down to dwell in us, is most important. He is given as a seal. The Lord Jesus said, “If I go away, I will send Him unto you.” The Comforter brings to me the fullness of His grace, being the witness of accepted righteousness to our hearts (Rom 8:16). He convicts, or demonstrates, of righteousness and that righteousness is mine in the Lord Jesus. He “is made unto us righteousness” (imputed not imparted* - 1 Cor 1:30—NC), and I stand in it because I stand in Him.

The Spirit convicts the world of sin, of unbelief; but His demonstration to me is of righteousness—righteousness wrought out for me, which my Father has accepted. Now He is perfectly free to bless. My thought now is not, I am so full of sin that He cannot bless me; but rather, my Father has accepted the righteousness of His Son and I stand in that. We are born again of God, and as such need something to bring to Him. It is all furnished in the One who is my Christian life (Col 3:4).

There is not only peace as to the past, but I have the Lord Jesus’ standing in the presence of the Father now (Eph 2:13). We stand in the Last Adam, and have that Second Man’s position in virtue of our eternal redemption. So sure as I had the first Adam’s place as totally rejected because a sinner (Rom 5:17), so I have the Last Adam’s place as totally accepted according to the counsel of the Father in the Son (1 Cor 15:45; Eph 1:11).

At the end of John 17 we have the Lord Jesus’ righteous title (one with the Father in the son-ship of Jesus, v 22—NC) and of His personal title spoken (v 24). He is bound to bless. “I in them.” He could not bless sin, but now righteousness being perfected, all the purposes of His heart in love can flow out to us, because we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus (2 Cor 5:21). Whatever the love of God—the righteousness of God—all that by which He stands in the presence of the Father, because of His work and Person, we have, and are blessed in virtue of it all.

- G V Wigram





Poster’s Opinion:

* “imputed not imparted”: faith and salvation is imparted but righteousness, holiness, justification and sanctification are imputed, i.e. recipients of the benefits from the essences of God but not receiving these essences, which would be to become divine. Hence these are “made unto us” (1 Cor 1:30). We stand in them vicariously in Christ as they are not derived from us but are manifest through us by God’s Spirit using the life of Christ (Col 3:4)—via the “new man” (new nature from Christ – Col 3:10).

Gill comments that “the nature, perfections, and glory of God, are incommunicable to creatures; not hypostatically nor personally, such as is the human nature of Christ, in union with the Son of God, is a partaker of the divine nature in Him. But by way of resemblance and likeness the new man or principle of grace, being formed in the heart in regeneration after the image of God and bearing a likeness to the image of His Son.”



MJS devotional for October 30:

“It is during the time of our being broken that we learn that His promises concerning us cannot be broken.” - MJS

“It is more than comforting to realize that it is those who have plumbed the depths of failure to whom the Father invariably gives the call to shepherd others. This is not a call to the gifted, the highly trained, or the polished as such. Without a bitter realization of their own inadequacy and poverty they are quite unfitted to bear the burdens of spiritual ministry.” – J C M

None But The Hungry Heart
 
New Member
So we are imputed with perfection? So even though we cannot be sinless, we are seen as sinless by God? How do we know that we are seen as sinless if we cannot become sinless, if we sin, do we ask for forgiveness? If we die before we ask for forgiveness what happens?
 
Loyal Member
So we are imputed with perfection?
HI and thanks for your interesting comments! I think this is best shown in Rom 4:11, 22; Jam 2:23.

So even though we cannot be sinless, we are seen as sinless by God?
I would say believers are seen by God as guiltless, not as sinless, which would be to deny the truth of the indwelling sin nature per Rom 7:17, 20 (not that you were questioning differently).

God bless!
 
Loyal Member
I would say believers are seen by God as guiltless, not as sinless, which would be to deny the truth of the indwelling sin nature per Rom 7:17, 20 (not that you were questioning differently).God bless!
I would think God sees believers as guitless because He "took away sin," and made believers liberated "from" the cause of the penalty (Joh. 1:29; 1Joh. 3:5).

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me "free" from the "law of sin" and "death."

Believers are free from "sin" and "death" equally; as well as the law that imputed sin to a man (Rom. 7:5, 6).

A believer can only sin if they are "under" the law (Gal. 3:23-25).

I think people forget that "sin" is what caused the "penalty." This is why God has termed it "UNFRUITFUL" works by Grace. There is no character of Christ and God is not concluding believers to have sinned.
 
Loyal Member
I would think God sees believers as guitless because He "took away sin," and made believers liberated "from" the cause of the penalty (Joh. 1:29; 1Joh. 3:5).
Hi and thanks for your comments! True, because of Jesus' Cross-work God sees believers clear of the guilt of their sin and this is a permanent truism because those reborn cannot go in and out of guilt but for ever remains out of it. Various are the opinions though concerning what is meant by God taking away sin. I believe Scripture often identifies the cause of sin to be the old man or sin nature, and this is never said to be removed while in this life. So to me to take away sin is to permanently nullify its condemnation!

Therefore it can be rightfully admitted that sin removal cannot involve its cause, which is why nobody lives without sinning, though this be the greatest desire of the saint concerning pleasing God. Therefore, though we "are not in the flesh" (sin nature - Rom 8:9) it is in us (Rom 7:17, 20), still causing us to exercise our faith in Christ's reparation of sin in it's "condemnation" (Rom 8:1)" and "dominion" (Rom 6:14).

I think people forget that "sin" is what caused the "penalty."
Amen, the cause of sin is where guilt is incurred, and not in the act of sinning, because the sin is merely the fruit of the old man, which is the cause.

Blessings!
 
Loyal Member
@NetChaplin,
Hi and thanks for your comments! True, because of Jesus' Cross-work God sees believers clear of the guilt of their sin and this is a permanent truism because those reborn cannot go in and out of guilt but for ever remains out of it.
Can a person go in and out of the body of Christ at will? Have we been bought with a price by the blood of Jesus and we are no longer our own? Can any man pluck themselves out of God's hand?

Various are the opinions though concerning what is meant by God taking away sin. I believe Scripture often identifies the cause of sin to be the old man or sin nature, and this is never said to be removed while in this life. So to me to take away sin is to permanently nullify its condemnation!
I always ask this question... Are you a good tree? Can you bring forth evil fruit? Can a unbelievers bring forth righteous fruit?

John said Jesus was coming to "take away sin" (Joh. 1:29). Then it was said in Hebrews the blood of bull and goats could not "take away" sins (Heb. 10:3, 4). Then we are told that the priest could not "take away" sins (Heb. 10:11). This was under the law of sacrifices that men could not take away sins only cover them. Then the Spirit said through Paul - what the law could not do - meaning the priest through sacrifices -Jesus came and did (Rom. 8:3). The law could not make a person righteous in the "presence" of God and give them eternal life because of sin. Jesus' sacrifice took away sin, making it possible and the opened the door to the only way we can have life and go boldly before the Throne of God's having grace to do so. The "ONLY" thing the law could not do was take away sin. I think you are missing the most important factor as being a believer - you must walk by faith without looking at the flesh.

Scripture teaches, we as believers, are grafted out of the sin nature and grated into the nature of Christ (Rom. 11:24; Col. 1:13). If this is true, how can a believer develop sinful fruit in the body of Christ where it's an impossibility for sin to reside? And the Spirit tells us we are "NOT" in the flesh, but we are in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us (Rom. 8:9, 10).

You said scripture doesn't teach that sin has been removed...

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This scripture teaches that sin has been "CANCELLED," put away mean cancelled.

G115 (put away) Greek definition:
ἀθέτησις [A)QE/THSIS] {athétēsis} \ath-et'-ay-sis\
from 114; cancellation (literally or figuratively):--disannulling, put away.

The term "take away" means:
G142 αἴρω [AI)/RW] {aírō} \ah'-ee-ro\
a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 05375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Therefore it can be rightfully admitted that sin removal cannot involve its cause, which is why nobody lives without sinning, though this be the greatest desire of the saint concerning pleasing God. Therefore, though we "are not in the flesh" (sin nature - Rom 8:9) it is in us (Rom 7:17, 20), still causing us to exercise our faith in Christ's reparation of sin in it's "condemnation" (Rom 8:1)" and "dominion" (Rom 6:14).
Amen, the cause of sin is where guilt is incurred, and not in the act of sinning, because the sin is merely the fruit of the old man, which is the cause.
Blessings!
I agree the cause of sin is where the guilt incurred, but the guilt is the result of sin. If you take away the guilt, the cause of the guilt is what also caused the separation from God, which caused the guilt and the penalty of sin. If you remove the "sin" you remove the guilt and the penalty. This is what Jesus came and did. If you are free from the penalty, you are free from the sin equally.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Scripture teaches us sin has been "circumcised" out of all believers.

Colossians 2:11
In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in "putting off the body" of the "sins" of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

A believer cannot righteously say they sin in the flesh. Sin has been circumcised (cut) of the flesh and put off the body according to scriptur. You are either "healed" from sin or you're not.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our "SINS" in his own body on the tree, that we, being "dead to sins," should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.
 
Loyal Member
I always ask this question... Are you a good tree? Can you bring forth evil fruit? Can a unbelievers bring forth righteous fruit?
I believe the sense in the phrase "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit" (Mat 7:18) has to do with "willfully sinning" (Heb 10:26), and that the issue isn't in the sinning as much as it is in the reason for sin; intentional or unintentional? Thus a paraphrase could be, "can a good tree willfully produce evil fruit"? Due to the indwelling old man (Rom 7:12, 14) believers still sin, but not willfully because of the new nature (new man), and I think this is the whole point of a right heart.
 
Loyal Member
@NetChaplain,
I believe the sense in the phrase "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit" (Mat 7:18) has to do with "willfully sinning" (Heb 10:26), and that the issue isn't in the sinning as much as it is in the reason for sin; intentional or unintentional? Thus a paraphrase could be, "can a good tree willfully produce evil fruit"? Due to the indwelling old man (Rom 7:12, 14) believers still sin, but not willfully because of the new nature (new man), and I think this is the whole point of a right heart.
Until a babe in Christ (in whatever area of life) learns to "willfully" obey the commandments of God, they will "willfully" commit unfruitful works because they are babes in that area of their life. God is not imputing sin to them. Time in Christ doesn't define the maturity of the believer. Most inappropriate behavior coming from a believer is because they are babes in that area of their walk. Grace has taken away sin because God sees the light of Christ and cannot see the darkness of sin. There is no sin in Christ, therefore, whoever is in Christ cannot sin (1Joh. 3:5). This is why Jesus teaches "unfruitful works." A believer does not develop the character of Christ by their act. This is the unbelief that will ultimately destroy the believer because it is faithlessness. They will become tares in the body of Christ. If a person is in Christ there is no sin to impute. By Grace we are saved from sin (Eph. 2:5, 8, 9). If a believer truly knows the truth, it's impossible for them to go backwards. A person goes backward because the truth does not have them; they have not sold out to the truth. The Word of God and God's love.

Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13
For every one that uses milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness:for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Scripture teaches Jesus died for intentional sins as well as unintentional sins. In God's eyes "ALL" sin has been removed. I showed you in scripture sin has been cancelled.

Romans 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

G3900 (offences)
παράπτωμα [PARA/PTWMA] {paráptōma} \par-ap'-to-mah\
from 3895; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.

The whole point of temptation is to get the believer to do contrary to the righteousness of Christ. The strength or power of sin is the law. Take away the schoolmaster that told a man they sinned, you take away the knowledge and consciousness of sin. Hebrews 10:2 tells us we should not have a consciousness of sin.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are "under" the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

I'm sure you know believers are not under the law. Jesus fulfilled the law in perfection and remove the law of sin and death. This is when the guilt was taken away and condemned. This also is when sin and death was condemned and taken in God's mind. I think it's important to meditate on Romans 8:2 and 3. If you are still under the sentence of death, you are still a sinner and sin. If you still sin, Jesus has not risen to take away your sins and you are under the law of sin and death. (1Cor. 15:17). You cannot be under the law of sin alone. They are synonymous. You cannot have one without the other.

Romans 7:5
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Believer are not in the flesh as you said and agree, but Romans 7:5 tells us that you sinned (past tense) when you "WERE" in the flesh. You brought forth sinful fruit when you were "IN" the flesh. You are not in the flesh, so how can you sin? Also, if you are dead with Christ and risen with Christ from the dead and are a new creation in Christ, how can "YOU" become your old man after you died with Christ and rose with Him?
 
Loyal Member
Until a babe in Christ (in whatever area of life) learns to "willfully" obey the commandments of God, they will "willfully" commit unfruitful works because they are babes in that area of their life. God is not imputing sin to them. Time in Christ doesn't define the maturity of the believer . . . etc.
Regi, I'm not understanding enough of this post to relate it to the subject we've been discussing. Sorry, thanks for your input, but I think we're done with this one anyway!

Blessings!
 

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