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Past sins.

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Loyal
There is a popular doctrine that says, when you become a Christian all your sins are forgiven.
Even the ones you've done in the future. However I do not see this in the Bible anywhere, in fact I see quite the opposite.

2 Pet 1:5; Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
2 Pet 1:6; and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
2 Pet 1:7; and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
2 Pet 1:8; For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Pet 1:9; For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
2 Pet 1:10; Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
2 Pet 1:11; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

When we get saved, all of the sins we've done in the past are forgiven, but what about sins we commit
after we become saved? Some would say God knows the future, So He knows in advance what sins you
will commit and He forgives you for them. However I don't see this in the Bible. God may know the
future, but we do not.

Many of us do not know the sins we will commit tomorrow, or next week, or next year.
Some "Christians" are living in sin and do know the sins they will commit tonight and tomorrow
but are either unable or unwilling to quit doing them.

Can a habitual child-molester enter heaven? Most would not. Some might say "Well God looks on the inside and knows his heart". In some cases, God doesn't have to "look on the inside" to see our deeds.

Jesus told us to pray like this...

Matt 6:9; "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
Matt 6:10; 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Matt 6:11; 'Give us this day our daily bread.
Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:13; 'And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'
Matt 6:14; "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:15; "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

What is a debt, (some Bibles say transgressions, or sins) a debt is something owed.
What do we owe God? Money? (some seem to think so) we owe God for our sins.
He forgives us.... if we acknowledge our sin, repent of it and ask for forgiveness.
But also... as we see above, He forgives us as we forgive others. It goes on to say, if we do not forgive others,
neither will we be forgiven.
Why would Jesus tell believers to pray this way? Why would they need to ask for forgiveness if they
are already forgiven in advance?

John 13:6; So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
John 13:7; Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
John 13:8; Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
John 13:9; Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
John 13:10; Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."
John 13:11; For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."

Jesus washes the disciples feet. Pete doesn't want Him to, but Jesus says... "If I do not wash you, you have
no part with Me". Peter then says, well wash all of me..
Jesus replies, those who are clean, only need to have their feet washed.

We don't lose our salvation just because we sin, (although this is different from habitually practicing and
choosing to sin, in which case you can lose your salvation). But we do need to ask for forgiveness from
time to time and "have our feet washed" so to speak.

1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins... He will forgive us. We can't confess them if we don't know what they are.
Some people say, well I asked Him to forgive me many years ago. I don't need to ask again.
No you didn't ask Him, you didn't even know what sins you were going to commit after that day, so
how could you ask?

Part of the problem with the "forgiveness in advance" theology, is that I don't have to worry about
sinning or even asking forgiveness, I'm already forgiven, I'm already good to go.
So you commit adultery or molest a child next year, you're good to go? Really?
Some will say, well... if you were really saved you wouldn't do those things.
If that's the case, why do those people still sin? There are no "big sins and small sins". Sin is sin.

Heb 12:15; See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Heb 12:16; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.

The thing is... we can become "defiled". The unsaved can't become defiled. They are already defiled.
They are already unclean and unforgiven. Only someone who has been washed can become defiled.
We are able to sell our birthright, to give it away. We can lose our heavenly inheritance if we try to.
Why else would Paul bring that up in this passage?

If we quit acknowledging our sins, we quit asking for forgiveness. In fact we start to become blind to
our sin over a period of time. It just becomes a part of us that we live with and we assume God will
forgive all of our choices.

1 Cor 8:12; And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

Go ahead, try it. You might be surprised at the weight that is lifted from you.
What does it cost you to ask for forgiveness? A minute of your time. Or are you worried about a higher
cost? (That you might have to actually repent).

Matt 18:34; "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

Forgiveness is mostly up to us. We need to ask for it. We need to give it to others.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
There is a popular doctrine that says, when you become a Christian all your sins are forgiven.
Even the ones you've done in the future. However I do not see this in the Bible anywhere, in fact I see quite the opposite.

2 Pet 1:5; Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
2 Pet 1:6; and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
2 Pet 1:7; and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
2 Pet 1:8; For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Pet 1:9; For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
2 Pet 1:10; Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
2 Pet 1:11; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

When we get saved, all of the sins we've done in the past are forgiven, but what about sins we commit
after we become saved? Some would say God knows the future, So He knows in advance what sins you
will commit and He forgives you for them. However I don't see this in the Bible. God may know the
future, but we do not.

Many of us do not know the sins we will commit tomorrow, or next week, or next year.
Some "Christians" are living in sin and do know the sins they will commit tonight and tomorrow
but are either unable or unwilling to quit doing them.

Can a habitual child-molester enter heaven? Most would not. Some might say "Well God looks on the inside and knows his heart". In some cases, God doesn't have to "look on the inside" to see our deeds.

Jesus told us to pray like this...

Matt 6:9; "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
Matt 6:10; 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Matt 6:11; 'Give us this day our daily bread.
Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:13; 'And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'
Matt 6:14; "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:15; "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

What is a debt, (some Bibles say transgressions, or sins) a debt is something owed.
What do we owe God? Money? (some seem to think so) we owe God for our sins.
He forgives us.... if we acknowledge our sin, repent of it and ask for forgiveness.
But also... as we see above, He forgives us as we forgive others. It goes on to say, if we do not forgive others,
neither will we be forgiven.
Why would Jesus tell believers to pray this way? Why would they need to ask for forgiveness if they
are already forgiven in advance?

John 13:6; So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
John 13:7; Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
John 13:8; Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
John 13:9; Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
John 13:10; Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."
John 13:11; For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."

Jesus washes the disciples feet. Pete doesn't want Him to, but Jesus says... "If I do not wash you, you have
no part with Me". Peter then says, well wash all of me..
Jesus replies, those who are clean, only need to have their feet washed.

We don't lose our salvation just because we sin, (although this is different from habitually practicing and
choosing to sin, in which case you can lose your salvation). But we do need to ask for forgiveness from
time to time and "have our feet washed" so to speak.

1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins... He will forgive us. We can't confess them if we don't know what they are.
Some people say, well I asked Him to forgive me many years ago. I don't need to ask again.
No you didn't ask Him, you didn't even know what sins you were going to commit after that day, so
how could you ask?

Part of the problem with the "forgiveness in advance" theology, is that I don't have to worry about
sinning or even asking forgiveness, I'm already forgiven, I'm already good to go.
So you commit adultery or molest a child next year, you're good to go? Really?
Some will say, well... if you were really saved you wouldn't do those things.
If that's the case, why do those people still sin? There are no "big sins and small sins". Sin is sin.

Heb 12:15; See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Heb 12:16; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.

The thing is... we can become "defiled". The unsaved can't become defiled. They are already defiled.
They are already unclean and unforgiven. Only someone who has been washed can become defiled.
We are able to sell our birthright, to give it away. We can lose our heavenly inheritance if we try to.
Why else would Paul bring that up in this passage?

If we quit acknowledging our sins, we quit asking for forgiveness. In fact we start to become blind to
our sin over a period of time. It just becomes a part of us that we live with and we assume God will
forgive all of our choices.

1 Cor 8:12; And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

Go ahead, try it. You might be surprised at the weight that is lifted from you.
What does it cost you to ask for forgiveness? A minute of your time. Or are you worried about a higher
cost? (That you might have to actually repent).



Matt 18:34; "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

Forgiveness is mostly up to us. We need to ask for it. We need to give it to others.
So....When we were born again, we died, then were born again a new creature, we were innocent of any sin at any time.. We could not have been guilty of sin because we were brand new babes....That's why Paul was able to say "I harmed no man" The Paul that did harm Christians died on the road to Damascus...and a brand new Paul was born.

Ok What about after we are born again?


1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The word ‘faithful’ jumps out here, for me….Faithful indicates a previous commitment…The commitment of a servant to his ‘master’ “I will serve ….” And then the commitment of the ‘master’ to the servant I will protect and provide etc if….” So then the word ‘faithful’ is a covenant word

If you do sin you may have to repent...especially if you have developed a habitual sin....
 
Member
Remember the entrance is narrow.. Imagine if everyone's future sins Bc they were saved didn't count. That's just insane. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry fornication or even murder to be washed away? It is not that simple, infact living a true Christian life is one of the hardest things to do.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Remember the entrance is narrow.. Imagine if everyone's future sins Bc they were saved didn't count. That's just insane. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry fornication or even murder to be washed away? It is not that simple, infact living a true Christian life is one of the hardest things to do.
Warrior Could you please be a bit more clear on this sentence you said?
"That's just insane. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry fornication or even murder to be washed away?"
 
Member
Warrior Could you please be a bit more clear on this sentence you said?
"That's just insane. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry fornication or even murder to be washed away?"
Sorry. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry, fornication, or, even murder? All these things would then be washed away due to the fact that all "future" sin has been forgiven? I don't think so.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Sorry. So it would be ok for someone to commit adultry, fornication, or, even murder? All these things would then be washed away due to the fact that all "future" sin has been forgiven? I don't think so.
Are you talking of Christians? It would not be ok for a Christian to sin in any way...Future sin has been covered in the crucifixion of Jesus, that is to say the penalty of it was paid for. It was not forgiven, I think. One would still have to go to the Father and confess and get right with Him. What do you say B-A-C?
 
Loyal
So....When we were born again, we died, then were born again a new creature
Dying to the "old man" isn't a one time thing either.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Every time we sin... we resurrect the old self.

1 Cor 15:34; Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

2 Pet 2:18; For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
2 Pet 2:19; promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

It is entirely possible to go back to living in the mud if you choose to.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Dying to the "old man" isn't a one time thing either.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
I think dying to self is not what happened at being born again....Consider.....I died, I was born again with the Holy Spirit being part of me, and me being part of the Holy Spirit...The two of us are inextricably intertwined...That makes me a 'hybrid' if you will.. Part man and part God....Again that means that I am no longer human but now I am more than human....That is a one time deal...Now each day I say no to my will, by my own choice, and I will bow down to the one who made me the righteousness of God in Him
 
Loyal
Future sin has been covered in the crucifixion of Jesus, that is to say the penalty of it was paid for. It was not forgiven
In that case why get saved? Why even confess Jesus with my mouth? I'm already forgiven for anything I might do in the future.
The price of sin has been paid. Jesus doesn't have to die again. However we still have to ask, and we can only ask for what we know.
 
Loyal
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

As soon as we go back to disobedience, the Holy Spirit is no longer upon us.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

As soon as we go back to disobedience, the Holy Spirit is no longer upon us.
Oh This is not true at all...He said He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. That means He never leaves us.

Deuteronomy 31:6 - Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:5-6 - [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
In that case why get saved? Why even confess Jesus with my mouth? I'm already forgiven for anything I might do in the future.
The price of sin has been paid. Jesus doesn't have to die again. However we still have to ask, and we can only ask for what we know.
The fact that the penalty for future sin is paid does not give license to sin...
 
Loyal
When we have been forgiven and we accept that forgiveness, we have also supposedly repented, which means we have "turned around" in our ways, but especially early in our walk with the Lord, we do not even know all of our own ways that lead us to sin repeatedly the same sins. This is where growth is needed. We need to learn what our bad habits [the habits that lead us back to sin] and with God's help change them and replace them with good habits.

Going into a bar room normally in itself would not be a sin, but if all of our old friends still hang out in that bar their doing their sins, which are very similar to what ours were, wouldn't it be time to give thought to not visiting the bar room any more?

Jesus spoke of this here if we can understand His words and apply them to ourselves:

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."' Matt 12:43-45
 

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